A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING! UPDATE on PAGE 9

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Postby CAW » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:44 am

[hijack]

Q, I love your avatar! :wink:

[/hijack]
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Postby scrumhalfgirl » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:45 am

I like the idea - I agree with Brian and with Dave.

And I think that if people want an area to discuss "running for fun", they should have one too.
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Postby q » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:46 am

In fact as I checked after I posted....

The newest threads at this time were this one followed by

2 Plane in the Hudson
3 Guilt Free Neverending thread
4 Battlestar Galatica Season 4
5 Thankfully Friday
6 The Biggest Loser - Couple 09
7 2008 Results Thread
8 Miniature Persian Kittens for sale - Toy and Teacup Size.
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Postby seuss » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:48 am

dgrant wrote:
strider wrote: I think what is being asked for here is a separate sand box to play in.


IMHO, the key would be an understanding that this new section might have a different tone than the rest of RM. Mostly the tone on RM is about inclusion and mutual celebration and all that. Nothing wrong with that... people like it... it's a hobby after all. But perhaps it's not always the most sincere or constructive.


what Dave said.

speaking from an information management perspective, it's a great way to keep everything on one topic together so folks who want to talk about racing can find it all in one place without having to skim through other more general training topics.

love the name Speed Zone!
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Postby q » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:48 am

HighJacker CdnArtyWife wrote:[hijack]

Q, I love your avatar! :wink:

[/hijack]



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Postby Kelodie » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:48 am

I think it's a good idea!
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Postby CAW » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:50 am

Q wrote:
HighJacker CdnArtyWife wrote:[hijack]

Q, I love your avatar! :wink:

[/hijack]



Hahahah.... do you even remember that night?


:shhh: In fits and spurts I do.... :oops:
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Re: A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING!

Postby dgrant » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:51 am

redhead wrote:
TheBman wrote:In order to keep Running Mania attracting its current membership AND adding new members, I think that it is about time that RM add a “RACING” topic where those who LOVE to race, those who love speed, those who love to “get their game on” have a place where they need not “tippy toe” around words like “sub”, “fastest”, “hammer” or heaven forbid “ELITE” or “BEAT”, not to mention the big one…..WIN.

Well, while you're at it ... I think that it is about time that RM add a "FUN RUNNING" topic where those who DON'T LOVE to race, those who who are injury-prone, can't or won't do speedwork, those who love to "get their jog on" have a place where they need not "tippy toe" around words like "snail", "Penguin", "walk-break" or heaven forbid "fun" or "exercise", not to mention the big one….."BOP". Oh, wait a minute. We tried that once...

http://www.runningmania.com/forum2/view ... highlight=

But the big bullies wouldn't leave us alone. wtf? all we wanted was our own "separate sand box to play in" too. :roll: :wink: :D

BTW - I feel the need to clarify ..... I'm joking. No bashing the slow-poke.

I think a separate RACING thread is a great idea. (Mind you, back in the day, I thought a separate BOP'ers thread was a great idea too.) Speed wins!!! :dance: I'll just mosy back into lurkdom and jog on my TM.


I think that thread is Exhibit A that acceptance and congratulation of all runners (which I think was the purpose of the thread) is by far the overwhelming tone of the forum as a whole. The proof is that, despite that thread dying out, it's posters were a who's who of the most prolific posters on the forum as a whole. I don't think very many people are avoiding RM because it doesn't represent enough of one end of the spectrum, but we know for sure people ignore RM because it doesn't represent enough of the other end of the spectrum.

(And again, I'm not saying either end of the spectrum is better or worse, only that it'd be great to promote both as much as possible.)

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Postby seuss » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:57 am

Banane wrote:
Tri_K wrote:Right now training and recovering are one forum. Maybe that's where the issue is. There are great topics in training that would fit in this new forum but a lot of that section is filled up with injury and health related talk. What if we split that forum? Have one called Training and Racing and one for Health?


good idea


i don't know - i think that training is a pretty broad topic and can lead to more general discourse and it appears that the current forum isn't meeting the needs of the speedsters.

why not give it a try?

but i also think that Arlene's point is well taken - lots of back of the packers/lifestyle runners don't feel that they fit in because they don't measure up in terms of monthly mileage, racing plans, etc. they are 2 very separate interests. so the lifestylers talk about other issues - be that TV shows, recipes, coffee, etc. [not that everyone who is doing that is a BOPper.] the BOP thread was an attempt to raise the level of discourse for more casual running without the pressure to ramp it up by moving up in distances, or getting faster, or racing. it's not clear to me why fast folk were threatened by that or why that would be considered elitist.

it's a running forum. there are many different kinds of running - why not meet the needs of ALL runners?
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Re: A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING!

Postby seuss » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:05 pm

dgrant wrote: I don't think very many people are avoiding RM because it doesn't represent enough of one end of the spectrum, but we know for sure people ignore RM because it doesn't represent enough of the other end of the spectrum.



maybe so - but i am will to bet that lots of us aren't talking about running as much as we would in a more lifestyle-related forum. i know that's true for me. so we talk to other runners but not about running in a lot of cases.

i just don't feel comfortable posting "i want to get my 5K down under 40 minutes this season" in the general running thread because it doesn't seem like it would be of interest to the general membership who are way beyond this. most of the replies would probably be general encouragement and talking about my progress or lack thereof among folks who have never run that slowly in their lives.

a speed zone and a lifestyle running forum would focus the conversations and provide the type of support that each type of runner is looking for. it doesn't mean that those looking for speed/racing tips would stop posting in more general interest running forums for appropriate topics. the same would be true for the lifestylers.

i don't get why folks get concerned about the number of NRR threads though. they serve a function to build community. isn't that what we want to be?
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Postby Dstew » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:12 pm

For my two cents, I am ultra competitive - enter some races just because I know from past results I have a chance of finishing top three with decent training and a good race so I have to say I disagree with the original premise.

If there is a problem, it is likely everyone tends to get quite attached and passionate about their particular approach to running, especially when it has worked for them. So mea culpa is when I hear that the "elites" approach running by doing "x" or not doing "y" with the implication, either read in or real, that this is the ONLY way, then I respond forcefully. That is, I qualified for Boston twice not doing what the elites did, won two age group series titles in a trail race not doing what the elites did so ... but I should probably make a point but that is what worked for me so the elite method might work for you.

So in my opinion, it is not that the "elite" view should not be heard but that it should be presented as one alternative and the same applies to other paradigms. And I believe we are adults here, at least in age, so it is a fair question to ask when someone says I followed the "elite" method and was hurt what they actually did so to confirm an alternative is not available. Or on the other hand for someone to suggest that you can do something other than the "elite" method and still be competitive if not racing to their potential. It could be the subtle difference between striving for one's potential and doing just enough to be just fast enough. So is there a third forum for that? The forum for running just for fun, to take seconds off of your marathon time and those who want to golf or bike and do other things but just get fast enough to win an age group medal or qualify for Boston.


In my humble opinion, the best use of these forums is to exchange personal experiences so that people have options and alternatives because we truly are an experiment of one. So if someone says they are not getting faster running/and or injured six days a week or cross training, then someone who found a solution can give them an option that might not work. The problem and conflict happens when instead of providing options, people lecture as to what is important and that there is only one way to train. So a new forum is not likely going to change that.

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Postby MINITEE » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:13 pm

I honestly don't care one way or another. :roll: As for the "nrr" stuff.. I look at it this way..

There are 24 hours in a day... I only spend an hour or so at any given time these days on "running or related activities".. the other 23 or so hours, well that less my sleepy time.. are guess what.. Lifestyle hours...

We've become a community in many ways, the NRR stuff just shows that we're human and do things other than run/work out. Balanced lifestyle things. Many of us have a lot more in common than running, and as a community we're comfortable discussing those things, hence the popularity of some of the NRR stuff. :wink:
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Postby Samantha » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:14 pm

I agree with both seuss and Mini-T - nicely said. And that's all I'm going to say about that. :P

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Postby UltraQueenga » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:18 pm

:idea: Can we get a poll to get some numbers on whether we should have a new forum or not? :?:
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Postby Iron-North » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:23 pm

Good idea.
It will be interesting and I am sure we can learn from it as we have learned from other forums.
This is probably one thing that is lacking in RM. Somewhere where things are being told the way they are or seen by other runners/racers.

I don't see it to be all about bashing each other. It will be about beeing honest and say the right things are the right time for the right reasons. Them being criticisms or encouragements or praises.

And why not have a bunch of NRR stuff going on and dogs and cats and pimples on my nose, music and French and Chinese for the matter!
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Postby CAW » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:28 pm

MINI-T wrote:I honestly don't care one way or another. :roll: As for the "nrr" stuff.. I look at it this way..

There are 24 hours in a day... I only spend an hour or so at any given time these days on "running or related activities".. the other 23 or so hours, well that less my sleepy time.. are guess what.. Lifestyle hours...

We've become a community in many ways, the NRR stuff just shows that we're human and do things other than run/work out. Balanced lifestyle things. Many of us have a lot more in common than running, and as a community we're comfortable discussing those things, hence the popularity of some of the NRR stuff. :wink:


You said, so eloquently what I was trying to piece together in my mind.

As far as I'm concerned, if those that have more desire and motive to spend more of their time on "running or related activities" want a place to do so, so be it. But I have to admit, I'm getting tired of those same people making cracks about the rest of us littering up RM with recipes, and the like ...then stating "after all, it is a running forum.

There, I said it.

And keep in mind, that Scotty and I have formed friendships with many of said people, both virtually and in real life...but we still marvel at how some people struggle to find time to fit in 3 runs a week (us), when others seemingly have the resources and time to not only train, but race in so many events...
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Re: A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING!

Postby dgrant » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:28 pm

With all due respect to Brian, I think his good idea might have been expressed better if it wasn't framed as a grievance about what has or hasn't happened in the past, or that something new should be done to right a wrong. If there's an appetite for it there's an appetite for it, regardless of motivation or back story. (When did we get so flinty about forum sections? 40% of our sections have fewer than 200 threads in almost 4 years.)

seuss wrote:most of the replies would probably be general encouragement and talking about my progress or lack thereof among folks who have never run that slowly in their lives.


[total hijack]
Sometimes I wonder if the apprehension or alienation felt by slower runners stems from an assumption that faster and slower runners are inherently different breeds. I'll bet there are many runners on RM (and in the broader community) who can now run 10K in 40 minutes, but at one time were elated to run 5K in 40 minutes... or to be able to run 5K at all. I know I was, and from their histories I'd bet Robbie-T, eljeffe and several others would say the same. Perhaps (though maybe I'm wrong) there's an incorrect assumption about people's ability to relate to one another.

I also wonder if there's just a communication misunderstanding when someone tells a 40 minute 5K runner they could be a 40 minute 10K runner. That doesn't have to imply that they should be a 40 minute 10K runner, or carry any pejorative connotation at all.
:D
[/total hijack]

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Postby DougG » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:32 pm

I like what Mini T wrote! After reading the responses I find it interesting to read that those who are faster and more competitive feel there is a need for their own separate thread, because the emphasis on RM is on fun and recreation. On the other hand many (the majority ?) feel somewhat hesitant or embarassed to post their times & stories because of the focus on the more serious runners. Both ends of the spectrum indicate that the board seems to favour the other :roll: Interesting.
I am ok with having a separate thread, although it definitely won't include me; this broken down body has limits and I'm ok with that. On the other hand I want to get better, sometimes my competitve streak comes out.
I do worry that by having more groups (we have a few now - Tri threads; French only; walking; weight loss; recipes, and so on) that RM will become even more fractious (sp). This board has been supportive and encouraging to newcomers and slowpokes like me, which is great. yet IMHO there is a greater focus on speed and the "racers". I am all for striving for excellence and congratulate those who are fast ( I hate mediocrity).
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Re: A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING!

Postby seuss » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:35 pm

dgrant wrote:
[total hijack]


I also wonder if there's just a communication misunderstanding when someone tells a 40 minute 5K runner they could be a 40 minute 10K runner. That doesn't have to imply that they should be a 40 minute 10K runner, or carry any pejorative connotation at all.
:D
[/total hijack]


and that's what went so terribly wrong in the BOP thread - slower folk having a meaningful discussion were bombarded with advice on how to ramp up training when personal circumstances or desires didn't allow for that.

i know that it's not that we are different breeds - as you point out, lots of folks have really transformed themselves. but it's an evolutionary process. if i were a hiker, i wouldn't start on a forum about scaling Everest. or maybe i don't want to evolve. i just want to fit running into my life for stress relief, well-being and setting a good example for my kids.
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Postby Doonst » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:39 pm

Being fast, well that's always relative but I think I qualify as competitive. My trash talking record stands on its own! Again my concern as such is that we will feel compelled to keep all such talk within the narrow confines of the proposed forum. The way most maniacs are, we can go off topic anywhere anytime, and that's fine. I'd feel people might be thinking, hey, take it to the speedy forum.
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Postby seuss » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:59 pm

Doonst wrote:Being fast, well that's always relative but I think I qualify as competitive. My trash talking record stands on its own! Again my concern as such is that we will feel compelled to keep all such talk within the narrow confines of the proposed forum. The way most maniacs are, we can go off topic anywhere anytime, and that's fine. I'd feel people might be thinking, hey, take it to the speedy forum.


i don't thinks will care if there is spillover. there is great general interest in what other runners are up to.

as always, the general rule would be if you are not interested in the topic, don't read it and/or post there.
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Postby MichaelMc » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:11 pm

Wow, quite a thread!

I'm not that fussy one way or the other. I know I'm opinionated and my posts can come across as too blunt, but generally over time people seem to get over that. :oops:

I'm fine with it the way it is, and I'll continue to post answers to "how can I run faster?" and "do you think I can run this fast?" threads, and they will not always be what people hope to hear. On the other hand a new "competitive runners of all speeds" section wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't put Elite anywhere in there, because frankly who is Elite here? For guys I don't think a 2:30 marathon is Elite, and I'm not sure how many 2:2x Marathoners we have here. Lots of sites have running topics within a section, like "Sub-3 in 2009", "Sub 2:45 in 2009" etc.

It is always a balance: a clutter of SECTIONS or a clutter WITHIN a section? :think:

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Postby La » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:12 pm

I like seuss' definitions of "lifestyle" vs. "competitive" runners. There's no implication of fast vs. slow. I'm not the fastest person around (a solid mid-packer), but I do let my competitive juices flow every now and then. Heck, I'm still bitter about the 30-odd seconds I lost at the Scotia Half last fall! :wink:

And I suspect there are a few of us who have a foot in both camps, and would like to be able to choose a particular forum, depending on our needs at the moment.

As for NRR threads, I read the ones I'm interested in, and don't read the ones I'm not interested in. Go ahead and talk about Lost, babies, parenting, pets and weddings... I have nothing to contribute, but I don't feel "excluded" in any way because there are tons of other topics in which I'll gladly contribute (or even just read).
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Postby Doonst » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:18 pm

Just so I'm clear on what goes where:
"Bman smells like cat pee" - pet forum or speedy trash talk?
Dgrant teaches his cats to speak English, -lifestyle?
Beyonce abandons her dog for a year at her record company, -nrr?
Plane in Hudson, I was right there after the NYC marathon expo, -race reports?
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Postby Robbie-T » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:33 pm

Robbie-T wrote:
Jwolf wrote:Personally I don't get why there has to be a separate forum. If you're asking about training for a fast race, wouldn't you ask in the training forum? People talk about speed all the time in their results posts. And we sometimes have discussions about elite racing, etc. (although not enough) in the main forum.

Are people really offended when others talk about speed and races? I haven't seen that in any real way. The most controversy seems to come about things like cross-training, training methods, and NRR topics.


Maybe its because people bite their tongue and don't ask questions or talk about speed issues because they know it will get blown out of proportion.


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