A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING! UPDATE on PAGE 9

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bnn
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Re: A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING!

Postby bnn » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:54 am

Ed Fizz wrote:
dgrant wrote:This fall, cgraham and robbie got blitzed by many runners in local cross country races. Who are these people that can smoke our fastest contributors? Why are they not contributors here? Is there a way to make them contributors? Can RM truly mirror the broad running community?


Perhaps some of them did check out our forums and saw us as a bunch of wannabes, slowpokes and amateurs. That we don't meet there needs as elite racers. A sexier, type-A Racing Forum might appeal to them a bit more. Just a thought...


I'm all for adding a racing forum but come on, you don't have to put down the members in order to get it.
Just call me the thread killa

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Re: A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING!

Postby Ed Fizz » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:01 am

Banane wrote:
Ed Fizz wrote:
dgrant wrote:This fall, cgraham and robbie got blitzed by many runners in local cross country races. Who are these people that can smoke our fastest contributors? Why are they not contributors here? Is there a way to make them contributors? Can RM truly mirror the broad running community?


Perhaps some of them did check out our forums and saw us as a bunch of wannabes, slowpokes and amateurs. That we don't meet there needs as elite racers. A sexier, type-A Racing Forum might appeal to them a bit more. Just a thought...


I'm all for adding a racing forum but come on, you don't have to put down the members in order to get it.


I'm not putting anyone down. I'm just trying to figure out why the really fast runners aren't joining. We obviously don't appeal to them.

Sorry if my choice of words offended anyone. Not my intention.

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Postby bnn » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:07 am

Has anyone met a really fast runner and invited them to the board and received feedback as to why they wouldn't join/post? That would be more concrete then guessing it's because we're too slow, or because we have recipes posted...

Again, I am behind creating a racing section, but I think it falls then squarely on the shoulders of the people who want that section to 'be taken seriously' by the elites if that's who they want to attract. And I really can't see how it would exclude mid or back of packers. We still race and many of us, still watch the clock and want to get faster.
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Postby Pat Menzies » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:41 am

They are not going to tell you anything you don't already know. It's just more of the same at faster paces. I have had the opportunity to train with many guys who are at least National caliber(I have a younger brother who has done a 1:51 800) and they are just more talented and also invariably work harder and more consistently than the average runner. It's not any secret or special training.
The reason they never come on forums as a rule is because they immediately open themselves up to public criticism of themselves and their coaching and every racing mistake they have ever made. They end up just defending rather than contributing.

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Postby Jwolf » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:54 am

I really don't think that adding a Racing forum is going to do anything to attract faster runners, and I'm not sure that's even the point. There are already forums for competitive runners, and they have a completely different tone and feel than RunningMania. The community-based atmosphere (a bunch of wannabes? give me a break) is not going to change, either.

And as Pat said, it's not like the basics of training are any different. You can go to blogs on sites like http://www.fast-women.com/news.html or http://www.brooksrunning.ca/runners_res ... EPAGE.html to see more of how they train.
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Postby Ed Fizz » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:02 am

Banane wrote: I really can't see how it would exclude mid or back of packers.


I fully agree, and I think (and I might be wrong) one of the points Brian was trying to make in his initial post was that a sub18 5k runner should not feel bad about potentially offending someone by writing "What a slow, slow day. I sucked out there!!! Barely broke 19 today."

I for one would love to read a first person race report by Simon Bairu on his Cdn xc win, and not through answering a reporters questions. But I can see where Pat is refering to.

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Postby Jwolf » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:14 am

Ed Fizz wrote:I for one would love to read a first person race report by Simon Bairu on his Cdn xc win, and not through answering a reporters questions. But I can see where Pat is refering to.


Do you really think a forum called "Racing" or "Speed Zone" on RunningMania is going to attract ellite runners and their race reports? Is that really what people are looking for in this new forum?

Sorry folks-- that's not going to happen. There are already other places on the internet that serve that purpose, anyway.
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Postby DougG » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:14 am

I'm not putting anyone down. I'm just trying to figure out why the really fast runners aren't joining. We obviously don't appeal to them.

Aw c'mon Mr. Fizz, we know what you really mean. :lol:
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Postby drghfx » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:16 am

Nick wrote: If there are valid reasons to separate these discussions from the regular boards, then I'm open to giving it a whirl and reviewing it down the line.


I was going to suggest the same thing as I read through all the pages.

We are talking hypothetical here. Let's set up a Racing Forum and agree to revisit it after, say, 3 months. We can ask everyone how it is working, and whether it should be removed, or tweaked, or perhaps it is working so well we should try a Lifestyle Forum for 3 months too!

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Postby jes » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:32 am

drghfx wrote:
We are talking hypothetical here. Let's set up a Racing Forum and agree to revisit it after, say, 3 months. We can ask everyone how it is working, and whether it should be removed, or tweaked, or perhaps it is working so well we should try a Lifestyle Forum for 3 months too!


I think a trial period is a good idea. Why not try it? I could really care less if we attract more 'elite' runners, but why not give the pre-existing members something that they've requested (at least to try). There were plenty of people who've said that they'd be interested in such a forum.

As for a Lifestyle Forum, don't we already have that? Isn't that what NRR is?

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Postby babysteps » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:38 am

LadyJ wrote:
drghfx wrote:
We are talking hypothetical here. Let's set up a Racing Forum and agree to revisit it after, say, 3 months. We can ask everyone how it is working, and whether it should be removed, or tweaked, or perhaps it is working so well we should try a Lifestyle Forum for 3 months too!


I think a trial period is a good idea. Why not try it? I could really care less if we attract more 'elite' runners, but why not give the pre-existing members something that they've requested (at least to try). There were plenty of people who've said that they'd be interested in such a forum.

As for a Lifestyle Forum, don't we already have that? Isn't that what NRR is?


I think he means a "lifestyle runners" section where runners of a certain caliber can talk about their running without feeling silly posting about low mileage months or running just for fun or slower times or struggles with starting over etc. That's my interpretation anyway.

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Postby Doonst » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:41 am

Who goes where? Who goes up and who goes down?
next up:


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Postby La » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:49 am

Ed Fizz wrote:
Banane wrote: I really can't see how it would exclude mid or back of packers.


I fully agree, and I think (and I might be wrong) one of the points Brian was trying to make in his initial post was that a sub18 5k runner should not feel bad about potentially offending someone by writing "What a slow, slow day. I sucked out there!!! Barely broke 19 today."

That's a really valid point, Alain! Just as a slower runner shouldn't feel out of place for celebrating the fact that they just broke 35 minutes for 5K, a faster runner should be able to express their disappointment with an achievement that the vast majority of us would give our left arm to attain!

Oh, and I've met two of Pat's brothers and they are fffffffast!!! :shock:

:idea: Maybe we need a new term: "Phast" which is not about absolute/relative speed, but about being faster than you've ever been before!
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Postby CAW » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:49 am

Doonst wrote:Who goes where? Who goes up and who goes down?


Image
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Postby TheBman » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:49 am

klewlis wrote:
wow, snarky much?
:roll:

Apparently I am not allowed to voice my opinion, so I'm herein officially neutral on the results of this thread, and defer to the decision of the admin.


Holly, you know very well you can post your opinion…but as you can see, a (mostly) positive discussion has been going on about this legit question. For someone with your longevity here to simply post “I don’t see a need” could certainly cause a bit of frustration!!!!
State your opinion….many have and THAT was encouraged from post one.


Banane wrote:Has anyone met a really fast runner and invited them to the board and received feedback as to why they wouldn't join/post? That would be more concrete then guessing it's because we're too slow, or because we have recipes posted...


Actually, on several occasions. I have been a huge promoter of RM from DAY 1, bringing over non-runners, those once against any sort of physical activity and those who are fast and slow. I HAVE specifically asked very fast runners and some pro triathletes to check RM out. Most times when an HONEST review is requested….the first reply is that it seems that it is truly a “running community” which they envy… BUT it takes them forever to find anything related to sport-specific knowledge base or training/racing. I have been told that using the “posts since you last visited” is a nightmare as you can not pick out valuable RUNNING topics. If a topic is not cluttered with non-running related posts, a thread can often be choppy with hijacks or non-topical comments.
SLOWTWITCH.com is a very sport-specific triathlon site, yet they can be rude, obnoxious and unkind, a place that no one wants RM to be. But a ton of people go there to learn and get better….that was ALL I was suggesting. We have what they don't...and vice versa.


I am frustrated by this thread and honestly wish I had not even put it out there. Great, constructive comments have been posted by many people and other comments have been made from people who would never lurk on the topic I was suggesting anyway, so what did we accomplish.

There was nothing snarky about it…7 pages later, I think everyone has the right to :wall: a little….



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Postby Ed Fizz » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:53 am

DougG wrote:
I'm not putting anyone down. I'm just trying to figure out why the really fast runners aren't joining. We obviously don't appeal to them.

Aw c'mon Mr. Fizz, we know what you really mean. :lol:


Once again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I'm not always comfortable/good at expressing my thoughts in English. (And my grammar sucks. :oops: )

But I just think there is a segment of the running community which we don't have here, and it would nice if it would be.

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Postby babysteps » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:57 am

TheBman wrote:I am frustrated by this thread and honestly wish I had not even put it out there. Great, constructive comments have been posted by many people and other comments have been made from people who would never lurk on the topic I was suggesting anyway, so what did we accomplish.


B


See, this bugs me. How do you know who would or would not lurk on such a forum? Slow people I assume? I actually think slow people would lurk there a lot as it would be interesting to see how "the other half lives" kind of like a lot of faster runners lurked on the BOP thread.

Are you implying that those 'slower' runners have no right to voice their opinion? Only the fast need bother with responding?

Geesh.

I was originally supporting your idea B-man but honestly, I think you're helping me to change my mind!

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Postby La » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:01 am

Ed Fizz wrote:
DougG wrote:
I'm not putting anyone down. I'm just trying to figure out why the really fast runners aren't joining. We obviously don't appeal to them.

Aw c'mon Mr. Fizz, we know what you really mean. :lol:


Once again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I'm not always comfortable/good at expressing my thoughts in English. (And my grammar sucks. :oops: )

But I just think there is a segment of the running community which we don't have here, and it would nice if it would be.

I think (hope!) Doug was just pulling your leg. :wink:
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Postby CAW » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:01 am

TheBman wrote:


I have been a huge promoter of RM from DAY 1, bringing over non-runners, those once against any sort of physical activity and those who are fast and slow. I HAVE specifically asked very fast runners and some pro triathletes to check RM out. Most times when an HONEST review is requested….the first reply is that it seems that it is truly a “running community” which they envy… BUT it takes them forever to find anything related to sport-specific knowledge base or training/racing. I have been told that using the “posts since you last visited” is a nightmare as you can not pick out valuable RUNNING topics. If a topic is not cluttered with non-running related posts, a thread can often be choppy with hijacks or non-topical comments.
SLOWTWITCH.com is a very sport-specific triathlon site, yet they can be rude, obnoxious and unkind, a place that no one wants RM to be. But a ton of people go there to learn and get better….that was ALL I was suggesting. We have what they don't...and vice versa.





B


B,

If only you had stated this in your first post. This has possibly put things into better perspective for some people.

I think this better states your intent here.

Admittedly I didn't take offence to your original post...as a whole, but a couple of comments hit me in a sore spot so to speak. I think it was the tone with which I read it. But this paragraph above, does not, in my mind, carry with it any hostility or emotion...just statements of your experience.

I'm going to say again...let's give this a go. We tried an Ultras forum once...I'm not sure if that is still around...we've tried a walkers forum, which is still here but not utilized nearly as much as it could/should be....so...

Since we are a running site, why not at least try this proposal, and revisit at a later time to reassess its feasibility.

I don't understand why there needs to be a long, drawn out debate. A suggestion was made, there seems to be a majority of agreement...what more is needed?
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Postby VeloCarrie » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:04 am

I don't think we need this "lifestyle" zone, but my vote still stands for the "Competitive Runner" section. They seem to feel the need for it, and I support that. According to the home page of RM, we are here for all levels and people have made the case that competitive runners want someplace to go.

:D I feel completely comfortable posting my 14-20 km weeks along side UltraQueena's kms for the week. I also feel totally okay with posting my 9: x pace along side cgraham's 3: x pace. We are all on different levels and that is what should be celebrated. I always feel comfortable with doing that on RM, maybe other places I wouldn't. Maybe it's the sense of community, or the idea that everyone is very much aware that this place should be welcome to all levels. I don't feel the least bit uncomfortable or self-conscious doing that and I don't know why people feel threatened by that, and this is coming from someone at the very back of the pack. I am just as proud of my 42min 5K PB as someone is of their 17 min 5K PB. Both have alot of hard work behind them and I know I can learn alot here to continue working harder. I think everyone should be proud when you put the work into it.

The sense of community here is infectious and I don't see how a competitive running section would change that, just bring more people to the party. They would inspire me to continue getting better and better, and maybe I might inspire them to continue through adversity. We all have something to bring to the table, no matter what section we contribute to, where we come from, our talent, or experience, or youth, etc.
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Postby Ed Fizz » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:09 am

La wrote:
Ed Fizz wrote:
DougG wrote:
I'm not putting anyone down. I'm just trying to figure out why the really fast runners aren't joining. We obviously don't appeal to them.

Aw c'mon Mr. Fizz, we know what you really mean. :lol:


Once again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I'm not always comfortable/good at expressing my thoughts in English. (And my grammar sucks. :oops: )

But I just think there is a segment of the running community which we don't have here, and it would nice if it would be.

I think (hope!) Doug was just pulling your leg. :wink:


Having met Doug on 2 or 3 occasions, I know he's a nice guy and I hope he thinks the same of me. But I haven't met everyone yet...so...

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Postby TheBman » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:16 am

babysteps wrote:
TheBman wrote:I am frustrated by this thread and honestly wish I had not even put it out there. Great, constructive comments have been posted by many people and other comments have been made from people who would never lurk on the topic I was suggesting anyway, so what did we accomplish.


B


See, this bugs me. How do you know who would or would not lurk on such a forum? Slow people I assume? I actually think slow people would lurk there a lot as it would be interesting to see how "the other half lives" kind of like a lot of faster runners lurked on the BOP thread.

Are you implying that those 'slower' runners have no right to voice their opinion? Only the fast need bother with responding?

Geesh.

I was originally supporting your idea B-man but honestly, I think you're helping me to change my mind!


My point (and yes, you took it wrong) was that people who have posted that they do not see the need for this topic would not lurk there. I think thats a pretty fair statement.
If the walkers voted to add a dimension to their thread....I would not vote nor lurk as I don't do it now.

Sorry you are perhaps seeing the frustration bbsteps. I know I would HOPE that "slower" or "less competative" runners would lurk..thats part of the point. IT IS NOT a "we vs. they" thing at all....sorry if you took it that way....remember...I am one of the slower ones too!!

Kara....your comments are much appreciated...do I get less wine for rubbin you the wrong way?

B
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Postby RA. » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:17 am

TheBman wrote:[
Holly, you know very well you can post your opinion…but as you can see, a (mostly) positive discussion has been going on about this legit question. For someone with your longevity here to simply post “I don’t see a need” could certainly cause a bit of frustration!!!!
State your opinion….many have and THAT was encouraged from post one.



TheBman wrote:
I am frustrated by this thread and honestly wish I had not even put it out there. Great, constructive comments have been posted by many people and other comments have been made from people who would never lurk on the topic I was suggesting anyway, so what did we accomplish.


B
So you want only positive comments?

I think everyone is entitled to comment, regardless of if you think they will lurk or not. If you notice, the whole thread is a discussion. People who didn't see a need for it are coming back, re-reading others' opinions and some are changing their opinions.

The people in charge of deciding if this will move forward are reading it all. If it's good for the members of RM overall, then it is on the table. I don't think anyone is saying that its off the table.
Life is short. Stop whining!!- Jwolf

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Postby CAW » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:22 am

TheBman wrote:Kara....your comments are much appreciated...do I get less wine for rubbin you the wrong way?


Pfft, It would take a lot more than that to reduce your wine ration. The same goes for any Maniac that visits me. Not to say you are not special, B...but I want to be inclusive of everyone. :wink: :lol:
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blank
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Postby blank » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:29 am

I liked Bman's original idea, and I still do seven pages later. :D

I love to learn from the faster guys and girls; I like their attitude, and I think giving them a place to talk freely is a great idea.


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