A NEW RM forum topic suggestion---RACING! UPDATE on PAGE 9

[Ironboy]

We should make it a hidden forum and only add people by request, like the money or weight loss forum.

I'm not sure what emoticon to put, when I first typed it I was joking, now I'm not so sure.

[dgrant]

if i were a hiker, i wouldn't start on a forum about scaling Everest.

(Again I respectfully acknowledge I may be completely wrong, but...) I think there's another misconception there too. There are no Everest climbers on RM. I think the only member with any big time acclaim is Ryne (who never talks running here) and the only other one who has won a major race is The Joggler. Other runners who seem super fast relative to RM membership (ie ian, cgraham, robbie-t, stella, pat menzies, and several others) are in fact midpackers in the totality of the recreational running community. This fall, cgraham and robbie got blitzed by many runners in local cross country races. Who are these people that can smoke our fastest contributors? Why are they not contributors here? Is there a way to make them contributors? Can RM truly mirror the broad running community?

[seuss]

We should make it a hidden forum and only add people by request, like the money or weight loss forum.

I'm not sure what emoticon to put, when I first typed it I was joking, now I'm not so sure.

can you explain this? i don't understand the point you are making?

[Madame Bourette]

We should make it a hidden forum and only add people by request, like the money or weight loss forum.

I'm not sure what emoticon to put, when I first typed it I was joking, now I'm not so sure.

can you explain this? i don't understand the point you are making?

I understand it.

[Sir Crashalot]

We should make it a hidden forum and only add people by request, like the money or weight loss forum.

I'm not sure what emoticon to put, when I first typed it I was joking, now I'm not so sure.

can you explain this? i don't understand the point you are making?

I understand it.

Excellent idea!

[CAW]

We should make it a hidden forum and only add people by request, like the money or weight loss forum.

I'm not sure what emoticon to put, when I first typed it I was joking, now I'm not so sure.

We have a money forum?

Who knew? well, not me, obviously.

[bnn]

Who are these people that can smoke our fastest contributors? Why are they not contributors here? Is there a way to make them contributors? Can RM truly mirror the broad running community?

They're probably too busy with training.

[eljeffe]

Who are these people that can smoke our fastest contributors? Why are they not contributors here? Is there a way to make them contributors? Can RM truly mirror the broad running community?

They're probably too busy with training.

You took the zing right out of my...er... mouth.

[Magoo]

dgrant wrote:
Who are these people that can smoke our fastest contributors? Why are they not contributors here? Is there a way to make them contributors? Can RM truly mirror the broad running community?


They're probably too busy with training.

Nah. Alot of them are on facebook. What is the big mystery? Most of these guys and girls are at the weekend races and will talk to you if you have any questions. The only real way to really learn from them is to run with them. I don't think there are any big secrets to be revealed.

[bicycle.boy]

Moderators...need not “tippy toe” around words like “sub”, “fastest”, “hammer” or heaven forbid “ELITE” or “BEAT”, not to mention the big one…..WIN.

Tippy toe around words? Bah. I'm fairly blunt, I call 'em as I see 'em. If I see someone has tried their best to succeed but still failed, I will congratulate them on their effort and wish them luck next time. If someone has attempted a marathon by training for two weeks at 5km per week fueled by coffee and donuts, I'm not going to comfort them and tell them they made a good effort. Why? Because I don't think they did, and I call 'em as I see 'em.

I can be very competitive, but generally only with myself. If you don't like my advice, don't take it. Is it really so complicated?

IT IS NOT a place to start a debate or spew “just cuz I’m slower than you doesn’t make me less of a runner” stuff that has hijacked other threads.

It appears that this point was missed, as the debate/hijack has been raging for four pages now (not including the first page of mostly positive responses).

[seuss]

Moderators...need not “tippy toe” around words like “sub”, “fastest”, “hammer” or heaven forbid “ELITE” or “BEAT”, not to mention the big one…..WIN.

Tippy toe around words? Bah. I'm fairly blunt, I call 'em as I see 'em. If I see someone has tried their best to succeed but still failed, I will congratulate them on their effort and wish them luck next time. If someone has attempted a marathon by training for two weeks at 5km per week fueled by coffee and donuts, I'm not going to comfort them and tell them they made a good effort. Why? Because I don't think they did, and I call 'em as I see 'em.

I can be very competitive, but generally only with myself. If you don't like my advice, don't take it. Is it really so complicated?

IT IS NOT a place to start a debate or spew “just cuz I’m slower than you doesn’t make me less of a runner” stuff that has hijacked other threads.

It appears that this point was missed, as the debate/hijack has been raging for four pages now (not including the first page of mostly positive responses).

okay now i am completely mystified. i don't see any of this as a debate or a spew - it's a conversation about how the specific needs of different groups of runners can be met on RM and has simply been widened from competitive/racer to include groups with other specific needs.

most of the responses have been in support of Bman's suggestion, although a few have said they don't see the need. so be it.

his suggestion led to another suggestion in the same vein - lifestylers have different needs to and would also like a specialized forum.

how is that a debate or a highjack? there were some cryptic and unexplained comments but those were few.

no one has been disrespectful or strayed outside the topic of certain groups of races may like a topic-related forum to discuss their specific running needs on a running site.

i really don't get it?

[Doonst]

Shouldn't this really be moved to Site News, Questions, and Comments? That's what that that forum is for!! What's the use of having separate sections if we don't use them!!

[msdesigner]

Forgive me as I jump in without reading all ( I have read about half of the messages) of the last 4 pages.....

Perhaps the "General Running Discussion" section is too general named? Why not archive this section and create 2 new ones
- the Recreational Runner (personally, I am not crazy about the lifestyle name) and
the Competitive Racing sections, as suggested.


I would think any post one might want to make that is "general" in natural could very easily fit into one of the existing sections.

While I am not a competitve runner - except with myself - I would likely post in recreational section but would gain much insight from the racing section.

Great suggestion Brian.

Edit to clarify.

[Madame Bourette]

[Nicholas]

Honeslty, I think DGrant summed up this attempt best....but with it seems that pretty much the WHOLE FIRST PAGE of possitive feedback is silenced by "but either way...I don't see a need".

as usual

It was worth a shot....sorry folks!


Brian

Brian, relax!!!
This is one of those "what do you want RM to be" discussions. The responses on page 1 were mostly "Yes-do it" but since then there has been more of a reasoned dialogue about the merits and issues with this. It has the potential to be very divisive, so reasoned discussion is appropriate. Personally, I'm listening to everyone's comments.

What sets RM apart from the other running fora is the sense of community among folks who like to run. We also spend most of the day doing real-life things and like to share those, too. That does not mean RM could not support a sandbox (Gold Silver Bronze Loser) for a group of very driven and competitive members. However, the value of that separate sandbox and the impact on RM as a whole needs to be understood.

I am a tad less competitive (and a lot slower!) than I used to be but I can certainly relate to those competitive juices. What I am struggling with is how the actual posts and threads in this GSBL board would differ from those of today in the GRD or Training boards. If it is purely an elitist board where certain so-called fast runners can talk amongst themselves without worrying about the riff-raff, then I say No. If there are valid reasons to separate these discussions from the regular boards, then I'm open to giving it a whirl and reviewing it down the line.

[seuss]

his suggestion led to another suggestion in the same vein - lifestylers have different needs to and would also like a specialized forum.

So, you want to expand the NET into something similar to the NRR? What would be the name? Kniting and drinking *$ ??? lol

Oups, I am getting off topic, like your recommendation. Let's go back to the speed zone topic please. (while others will go back to the NET).

the context of that comment was lifestyle runners if you had bothered to follow the discussion instead of just being obnoxious as usual.

running has more than one speed which is the point of the entire discussion. take your elitist attitude elsewhere if you can't be respectful.

[bnn]

I think, also, if you want this site to involve the faster, or elite level runners you're going to need to recruit them. Having a section for the speedsters will not necessarily bring them flocking to our boards, or will it?

May I also add that if you want the be perceived as serious and not just 'shoot the sh!t and recreational' you have the opportunity to demonstrate that in your own posts and your own topics. This community can only be what we all make of it! If you find you are going somewhere else for training q & a's where you'll get serious feedback or critiquing then how do you feel you can bring THIS board up to par?

If a separate section of the forums helps with that, then so be it

[Madame Bourette]

the context of that comment was lifestyle runners if you had bothered to follow the discussion instead of just being obnoxious as usual.

running has more than one speed which is the point of the entire discussion. take your elitist attitude elsewhere if you can't be respectful.

Hey! I Deleted my comment almost right after writing it. Sorry if you were too quick in replying.

[Jo-Jo]

Honeslty, I think DGrant summed up this attempt best....but with it seems that pretty much the WHOLE FIRST PAGE of possitive feedback is silenced by "but either way...I don't see a need".

as usual

It was worth a shot....sorry folks!


Brian

Brian, relax!!!
This is one of those "what do you want RM to be" discussions. The responses on page 1 were mostly "Yes-do it" but since then there has been more of a reasoned dialogue about the merits and issues with this. It has the potential to be very divisive, so reasoned discussion is appropriate. Personally, I'm listening to everyone's comments.

What sets RM apart from the other running fora is the sense of community among folks who like to run. We also spend most of the day doing real-life things and like to share those, too. That does not mean RM could not support a sandbox (Gold Silver Bronze Loser) for a group of very driven and competitive members. However, the value of that separate sandbox and the impact on RM as a whole needs to be understood.

I am a tad less competitive (and a lot slower!) than I used to be but I can certainly relate to those competitive juices. What I am struggling with is how the actual posts and threads in this GSBL board would differ from those of today in the GRD or Training boards. If it is purely an elitist board where certain so-called fast runners can talk amongst themselves without worrying about the riff-raff, then I say No. If there are valid reasons to separate these discussions from the regular boards, then I'm open to giving it a whirl and reviewing it down the line.

Thank you Nick for your well thought out and pondered response.

The thing that really struck me about your post is your comment about the "sense of community" that has been fostered here. You're so right. I think it's because of that sense of community that we have a fair number of NRR related posts. For example...when many of us heard about Nortel in the news this week and someone posted this in NRR many of us immediately thought about you. I just got a PM this morning from a Maniac (mjk) who I have not seen in a couple years wondering if we could have dinner mid-February when he was in town on business. Neither of these things would have happened had it not been for the fact that a community has been built here. And a very nice one indeed.

I voted yes because I'm interested in how those "speedsters" train and what head space they're in while they race.

But I'm in total agreement with you that I don't want to see an "elitist board" where riff-raff like crabby post menopausal members are not welcome

[bicycle.boy]

I agree that this is a community, but how communal is it if many of the "speedsters" feel uncomfortable posting because the "lifestylers" jump down their throats? I'm not saying it's true or untrue, but that's how they feel and the community does not seem to be backing them up.

Potential to be divisive? It sounds like they feel they've already been divided out.

[DougG]

Bicycle Boy, I understand what you are saying, yet many slower runner feel out of place or embarrassed to post their results or questions. Like the "RM elites", many slowpokes feel excluded already. It goes both ways.
And, I agree that it is divisive, I do not want things to become more divisive.

[seuss]

I agree that this is a community, but how communal is it if many of the "speedsters" feel uncomfortable posting because the "lifestylers" jump down their throats? I'm not saying it's true or untrue, but that's how they feel and the community does not seem to be backing them up.

Potential to be divisive? It sounds like they feel they've already been divided out.

i think the only times lifestylers have been defensive has been when broad sweeping generalizations that ALL runners should race or try to be faster or be competitive or want to win are made.

to my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that folks not discuss speed and racing related topics.

community is about sharing what we have in common in addition to meeting diverse and unique needs. not everyone's needs are going to be the same - hence this thread. there are also significant differences in the way different groups of people go about seeking and getting information and support that come into play. a one-size-fits-all solution isn't a solution and that's what folks are expressing here.

i don't see it as divisive. it's like being at a large party. you don't expect everyone that to all have one single conversation or have exactly the same values.

[Madame Bourette]

So, do we agree that the General running board could be separated in two sub-forum like let say:

1. The Speed Zone. (Racing and training)
2. Who cares about the clock? (Non-racing, fun run etc.)

[Lazagna]

Here is what I posted in the "why can't we all just get along thread"

have recently learned that to be respectful and not upset the masses is impossible. To agree with what everyone says, what their ideas are, and embrace them, is also impossible.

So, what do we do. Well, if I read something that offends me, I have a few options.
1. do nothing and ignore it
2. moan and groan, getting upset about it, but say nothing
3. post a public backlash and make the person feel bad (or attempt to) about posting what they did.
4. post a public message indicating where I think this original post is in error and hope they see my side
5. Send a private message to the poster indicating the displeasure with the posted item.

So, with those options, I, and I alone, choose what the outcome is. The concept here is that we all have to take ownership with what come out of our mouths, or our thoughts in typing etc. If we get upset and lash back, it causes problems. If we CAREFULLY word our responses and indicate what our thoughts are, it causes less problems.

The written word is difficult to master when attempting to convey thoughts and emotions. Often we react to something that was not MEANT in the way we read it, and it's difficult to get back to where we started.

How do we solve the ultimate problem of attempting to please all runners on this forum...... we can't. But what we can do, is attempt to foster an attitude of acceptance of other ideas; don't react negatively to ideas that you do not agree with, and enjoy the information you gather. Use the information if you wish, or not. Again, the choice is yours and yours alone.

I hope that comes across how I intended, it's a difficult concept to grasp in my own brain let alone in a message like this. My wife and I have talked about this sort of thing quite often.

[seuss]

So, do we agree that the General running board could be separated in two sub-forum like let say:

1. The Speed Zone. (Racing and training)
2. Who cares about the clock? (Non-racing, fun run etc.)

i would still leave the general forum for things like the daily thread, sharing resources, etc - most of the stuff it is used for now.

we do have stuff in common you know!

although i am not fond of the "who cares about the clock" - i care, but just in a different way.