Boston Marathon qualifying articles

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erinmcd
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby erinmcd » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:41 pm

La wrote:
erinmcd wrote:
Jwolf wrote:Don't believe rumors with no substantiation. We don't even know what lottery means in this case (I.e., who will be able to enter) or if it's a real thing.

If there is a lottery, what would seem to make sense is that only those who BQ can enter the lottery, which may be prefereable to the mad rush on opening day. I think that would be reasonable.

It might be interesting if they had a lottery for anyone who has run a BQ time within the qualifying window (whatever that ends up being) and that if you don't get in, you automatically get in for the following year without re-qualifying.

Though from the comments I've read (mostly on RW, but some here) people's enthusiasm for Boston is starting to wane, it seems. You know, the whole "oh it's too popular now so I don't want to run it" story. :roll: ;)

When I read through those comments it seemed to me that a lot of the people were thinking that it may be lottery only (rather than qualifying) which would take away from the eliteness of it.
There definitely was the "too big to be cool anymore" feeling to a lot of the comments though.
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby ian » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:07 pm

One thing that I noted with the comments on the RW forum is that many of the posters have PBs in their signature lines that are comfortably below the current BQ times, therefore they stand to lose more from a lottery system than from a change in the standards. One resolution would be to have "A" times (tighter standards for a guaranteed entry) and "B" times (current standards for lottery eligibility), but that would just double the arguments about the fairness of various cutoff times. In a sense, that system is already in place insofar that elites can typically get into any race they want. The funny thing is that quite a few of the non-elite runners tend to support systems that "preserve the Boston prestige" which basically amount to keeping anyone out who is slower than they are.

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby SteveF » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:22 pm

Well, hopefully they do something soon. They've had loads of time. Its hard to train for a BQ time when you don't know what that time may be....

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Jwolf » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:16 pm

ian wrote:The funny thing is that quite a few of the non-elite runners tend to support systems that "preserve the Boston prestige" which basically amount to keeping anyone out who is slower than they are.

This is exactly the feeling I get. It's this type of elitism that really turns me off, and really was never meant to be the intention of the BAA in setting qualifying standards. Perhaps that's what they are trying to get away from.

Personally I don't care what they decide, I just hope they will soon. To me Boston is a race that we try to enter, not a time that we try to achieve. I will enter in whatever way I can.
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Dean Simon » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:12 am

Great info. Thanks
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Robinandamelia » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:20 am

SteveF wrote:Well, hopefully they do something soon. They've had loads of time. Its hard to train for a BQ time when you don't know what that time may be....


I agree with this...For me it's about qualifying for this race...I think that if I qualify I achieve my goal.

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Strider » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:28 am

ian wrote: One resolution would be to have "A" times (tighter standards for a guaranteed entry) and "B" times (current standards for lottery eligibility)


This is the solution I am hoping for. JFK50 implemented something similar for 2010. They haven't posted the 2011 standards yet.
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby RayMan » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:15 am

Strider wrote:
ian wrote: One resolution would be to have "A" times (tighter standards for a guaranteed entry) and "B" times (current standards for lottery eligibility)


This is the solution I am hoping for. JFK50 implemented something similar for 2010. They haven't posted the 2011 standards yet.


That would be great but would it solve the one-day sellout? I like the idea, just hope it makes it a guaranteed entry instead of a cross-your-fingers kind of thing.

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Mark.AU » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:29 am

The debate is over.

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/blog/2011/02/baa_announces_new_procedures_f.html

"In 2012, the BAA will institute rolling admission for qualifiers with the fastest runners being allowed to enter first. The field will be filled with the fastest of all qualifiers.

Then, in 2013, the BAA will lower qualifying times by five minutes across all age groups and both genders. The rolling admission process also will remain in place for 2013 and future marathons, continuing to allow the fastest runners to enter first."
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby chunkymonkeymelonhed » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:33 am

Mark. wrote:The debate is over.

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/blog/2011/02/baa_announces_new_procedures_f.html

"In 2012, the BAA will institute rolling admission for qualifiers with the fastest runners being allowed to enter first. The field will be filled with the fastest of all qualifiers.

Then, in 2013, the BAA will lower qualifying times by five minutes across all age groups and both genders. The rolling admission process also will remain in place for 2013 and future marathons, continuing to allow the fastest runners to enter first."



Can someone explain what this is going to look like?

Are they going to take a certain number of the fastest from each age group?
Age groups don't really matter? they are taking the faster of everyone?



Found my answers

2012 Boston Marathon
For the 2012 Boston Marathon, registration will extend for two weeks, beginning on Monday, September 12, 2011 and continuing until Friday, September 23, 2011. The qualifying times for the 2012 Boston Marathon will not change from recent past years since the standards had been previously announced and have been in effect since last September. However, the new registration process addresses the increased demand among qualified runners to participate in the Boston Marathon and will accommodate those who are the fastest qualifiers first.



Registration will occur on a “rolling admission” schedule until the maximum field size is reached, beginning with the fastest qualifiers. On the first day of registration for the 2012 Boston Marathon, those who are eligible for entry by having met the qualifying standards for their age and gender group by 20 minutes or more will be able to enter on the first day of registration (September 12). On the third day (September 14), registration will open for those who have met their qualifying standards by 10 minutes or more. On the fifth day (September 16), registration will open for those who have met their qualifying standards by five minutes or more. During this first week of registration, applicants will be notified as they are accepted and their qualifying performance verified.



If the field size is not reached after the first week and additional space remains, then registration will open to all qualifiers at the beginning of Week Two (September 19) and those who have met the qualifying standards by any amount of time will be able to apply for entry. The application process will remain open for the entire week, closing on September 23. At the conclusion of Week Two, those who are the fastest among the pool of applicants in their age and gender will be accepted. Accepted athletes will be notified on September 28.



If space remains available after this two week process, registration will remain open to any qualifier on a first come, first served basis until the maximum field size is reached.



The field size for the 2012 Boston Marathon will not represent a significant increase from the most recent years.

Registration Process for the 2012 Boston Marathon

Date registration opens for runners with times...
September 12, 2011 20 min., 00sec. or more below their qualifying time (based on age/gender)
September 14, 2011 10 min., 00 sec. or more below their qualifying time (based on age/gender)
September 16, 2011 5 min., 00 sec. or more below their qualifying time (based on age/gender)
Second Week
September 19, 2011 All Qualified Runners
September 23, 2011 Registration closes for qualified applicants
September 28, 2011 (appx) Qualifiers from entry during second week of registration are notified of their acceptance.


So basically they have tightened the qualifying times without 'officially' tightening the qualifying times.
20 mins below my 'posted' qualifying time puts me at 3:40 :lol: .
what a joke.
And there goes my trip to Boston. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby ian » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:40 am

r4l wrote:
Mark. wrote:The debate is over.

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/blog/2011/02/baa_announces_new_procedures_f.html

"In 2012, the BAA will institute rolling admission for qualifiers with the fastest runners being allowed to enter first. The field will be filled with the fastest of all qualifiers.

Then, in 2013, the BAA will lower qualifying times by five minutes across all age groups and both genders. The rolling admission process also will remain in place for 2013 and future marathons, continuing to allow the fastest runners to enter first."



Can someone explain what this is going to look like?

Are they going to take a certain number of the fastest from each age group?
Age groups don't really matter? they are taking the faster of everyone?

Thinking that's my trip to Boston out the window.

We'll have the details soon enough, but I'm thinking in terms of a sequence of registration deadlines. For example, first they open things to anyone who is, say, fifteen or more minutes below their AG BQ time, then the following week they extend it to ten minutes below, and so on until capacity is reached. If this is true, then there really is no such thing as a BQ time anymore because the actual cutoffs will be set by supply and demand. Again, I'll have to wait for the specifics, but I'm both surprised and intrigued by the boldness of this idea.

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby chunkymonkeymelonhed » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:43 am

ian wrote:
r4l wrote:
Mark. wrote:The debate is over.

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/blog/2011/02/baa_announces_new_procedures_f.html

"In 2012, the BAA will institute rolling admission for qualifiers with the fastest runners being allowed to enter first. The field will be filled with the fastest of all qualifiers.

Then, in 2013, the BAA will lower qualifying times by five minutes across all age groups and both genders. The rolling admission process also will remain in place for 2013 and future marathons, continuing to allow the fastest runners to enter first."



Can someone explain what this is going to look like?

Are they going to take a certain number of the fastest from each age group?
Age groups don't really matter? they are taking the faster of everyone?

Thinking that's my trip to Boston out the window.

We'll have the details soon enough, but I'm thinking in terms of a sequence of registration deadlines. For example, first they open things to anyone who is, say, fifteen or more minutes below their AG BQ time, then the following week they extend it to ten minutes below, and so on until capacity is reached. If this is true, then there really is no such thing as a BQ time anymore because the actual cutoffs will be set by supply and demand. Again, I'll have to wait for the specifics, but I'm both surprised and intrigued by the boldness of this idea.


That's what they've done, except they're "upping" the the time every two days.

No way my 3:59:33 is going to last through the first week. No way.
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby daddy_runner » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:07 am

Looks like it won't be good enough just to BQ. You need to smash the BQ to have a chance to get in. Not to mention, all the BQs are going to be 5 minutes faster as of 2013. :(

I have a feeling I'll never get to Boston.

Ah well... There's always WS100.
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Robinandamelia » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:17 am

Well It's an interesting approach and one I never thought of....It will make me have to step up my game. I need a 4:00 qualifying time now, and I'm going to try and qualify at 3:50 to at least move up my category a bit..No way I can do 20 minutes though. Not yet anyway :). I think it's ok...I think that someone in my age group that runs in 3:40 should get in before me...won't make me happy, doesn't make my accomplishment any less, but to shut someone out that's that fast, isn't the right solution either. I think it might work....dunno....still fresh.

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby La » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:18 am

As much as it sucks for people who recently ran qualifying times, am I the only one who thinks that this system is actually more fair than what happened this year, where it was internet connection speed and not running speed that got you in?
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby ultraslacker » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:22 am

daddy_runner wrote:Looks like it won't be good enough just to BQ. You need to smash the BQ to have a chance to get in. Not to mention, all the BQs are going to be 5 minutes faster as of 2013. :(


So r4l, for example, would need a 3:35 for 2013 in order to "guarantee" (sort of) a place... that's a huge shift for a lot of people who were on the borderline.

I would need a 3:20 this year or a 3:15 next year to reach that top level. Snowball's chance in hell. :lol:

I have a feeling I'll never get to Boston.

Ah well... There's always WS100.


WS100 is a greater accomplishment anyway! (in the race, not the qualifying!)
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby ultraslacker » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:23 am

La wrote:As much as it sucks for people who recently ran qualifying times, am I the only one who thinks that this system is actually more fair than what happened this year, where it was internet connection speed and not running speed that got you in?


I don't have a vested interest, but I think it's pretty fair. Just a LOT tougher.
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby dgrant » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:24 am

La wrote:As much as it sucks for people who recently ran qualifying times, am I the only one who thinks that this system is actually more fair than what happened this year, where it was internet connection speed and not running speed that got you in?


Looks like a good system to me. Plus it will prompt new acronyms ("BQ10", "BQ20"), and runners love acronyms!

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Robinandamelia » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:28 am

La wrote:As much as it sucks for people who recently ran qualifying times, am I the only one who thinks that this system is actually more fair than what happened this year, where it was internet connection speed and not running speed that got you in?


No I'm thinking it's fair too...like I said, I think that someone who ran 20 minutes faster then me in my age group should be ahead of me...

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby chunkymonkeymelonhed » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:31 am

Robinandamelia wrote:
La wrote:As much as it sucks for people who recently ran qualifying times, am I the only one who thinks that this system is actually more fair than what happened this year, where it was internet connection speed and not running speed that got you in?


No I'm thinking it's fair too...like I said, I think that someone who ran 20 minutes faster then me in my age group should be ahead of me...


Agreed but if that's the time you need then go ahead and call the qualifying for my age group 3:40- 3:45.
I have a BQ for 2012 but a fat lot of good that does me.
Even if I manage to better my time in May I do not think it will be enough to help me for next year.
I know they needed to make a change. Just sucks that I'm out for 2012. I didn't realize how much I was looking foward to the chance to go.
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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Robinandamelia » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:08 pm

r4l wrote:
Robinandamelia wrote:
La wrote:As much as it sucks for people who recently ran qualifying times, am I the only one who thinks that this system is actually more fair than what happened this year, where it was internet connection speed and not running speed that got you in?


No I'm thinking it's fair too...like I said, I think that someone who ran 20 minutes faster then me in my age group should be ahead of me...


Agreed but if that's the time you need then go ahead and call the qualifying for my age group 3:40- 3:45.
I have a BQ for 2012 but a fat lot of good that does me.
Even if I manage to better my time in May I do not think it will be enough to help me for next year.
I know they needed to make a change. Just sucks that I'm out for 2012. I didn't realize how much I was looking foward to the chance to go.


It's still all about the numbers though, if the spots don't all fill in the first week, then you still get a shot the 2nd week.Without knowing the stats (who got in and at what times, and who didn't and at what times), it's hard to know how this will play out for 2012....don't count yourself out yet...just be ready to sign up first thing Monday morning on the 2nd week.... I hope you get in :)

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby RobAllen » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:11 pm

I like the system even though it now shuts me out of trying to qualify for the Boston Marathon. If it is purported to be an elite race than so it should be the best who get to go.

Just wait for the huge backlash over all the qualifiers who don't qualify on a given year versus the thousands of non-qualified charity spots given out. The charity spots are required to allow the marathon to continue and grow and most of the charities give back to the neighbouring communities that put up with the event.

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby mcshame » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:12 pm

I guess I'm not going to Boston :(

I should change my footer, I met the minimum requirement to BQ, which will not be good enough

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby greatstrides » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:17 pm

Does anyone know what percentage of this year's runners (or any past year) fell into each of the registration waves (-20 min, -10min, -5min)?

I was getting closer to qualifying and now it's further out of reach. One moment I was so looking forward to was running that last mile (or block, depending how close I was cutting it), knowing that I had finally qualified. Yelling, "I'm going to Boston!" was a dream of mine. Yeah, I had my heart set on qualifying. Now it seems unless you qualify with a huge margin, you won't know if you're in for a while.

I wonder if the 5 minute reduction in qualifying times will weed out enough people so that getting into the race is more of a sure thing? i.e. I ran my 3:32 and my qualifying time is 3:35, so I should get in.

Hugs to all who thought they were going to Boston and now aren't so sure.

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Re: Boston Marathon qualifying articles

Postby Joe Dwarf » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:19 pm

It would be interesting to see the distribution of qualifying times. If, for example, the vast majority of qualifiers fall into the last group to be allowed to register, then for the average Joe the system works the same as it does today - it just takes away the effective lottery aspect for the few runners who are fast enough. But if the majority of runners are in the first groups to be allowed, then they may as well just drop the qualifying standard.

Overall I think it's a pretty good way to do it. One thing I would have suggested - make a lottery out of the last group. Everyone has 24 hours to register, and then random draw from that. That way it makes it fair for those who don't have computer access at the exact time, that sort of thing.
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