Women running and safety

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Vic
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Women running and safety

Postby Vic » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:23 am

I wanted to ask if there are any women runners who can suggest devices/tools to use for safety while running ( especially in the dark) which would be legal in Canada. Obviously pepper spray and stunt guns are illegal but is there anything similar I can carry to feel safer ( but hopefully never use!). Replies from male runners also welcome :)
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Bones
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby Bones » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:38 am

I'm a guy, but I run on dark trails quite a bit and so I bought this:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sabre-Pepper-Spray ... 776&sr=1-6

Haven't had the chance to try it out yet (and hopefully never!), but it's fairly inexpensive and easy to carry.

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Re: Women running and safety

Postby ultraslacker » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:59 am

bear spray is legal!

I don't run with that but when on the trails alone I do run with one of these:
http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/76

I have it mounted to the outer pocket of my pack, so that it's easily accessible but not highly visible (just the end of the handle sticks out for easy access).

This is what it looks like from the outside:
Image

And what it looks on the inside of the pocket:
Image

I attached the black strap to hold it in there.
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby Spirit Unleashed » Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:23 pm

Take a women's self defense course, cuz most men would take a knife or gun from you quicker than you can think and then use it on you.
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby ultraslacker » Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:26 pm

Spirit wrote:Take a women's self defense course, cuz most men would take a knife or gun from you quicker than you can think and then use it on you.


Self defence course is a great idea.

It was a self defence instructor who recommended this knife to me and showed me how to use it. Part of the advantage of this one is how snugly and easily it fits in your palm so you can hang on tightly and securely.


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Re: Women running and safety

Postby toobusy » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:39 pm

Be sure that your local laws permit things. Concealed knives and bear spray for use as a weapon can be illegal in some areas


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Re: Women running and safety

Postby toobusy » Sat Sep 26, 2015 6:44 pm


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Re: Women running and safety

Postby Miss*Smiles » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:18 pm

I always tell someone where I am going, and often bring my dog if I'm running in the dark. He's a husky and looks intimidating. I've never been in a position to find out if he is. I hope I never am.
Last edited by Miss*Smiles on Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby Vic » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:33 am

Thank you all for your replies.
I did lots of research before asking this question and I know that even carrying a bear spray in the area where there are no bears can pose a problem legally. I guess I can carry a "dog spray" (??) because I was already attached by a dog while running.
The kabar knife looks really cool but on the website it says that they do not ship to Canada. I e-mailed the company to find out. I wish I would have a husky!!! I would love to run with a dog.
All the good safety gadgets are only available in US :(
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby ultraslacker » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:21 am

I ordered mine through Amazon.ca :)


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Re: Women running and safety

Postby eme » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:30 pm

I like that knife Holly. I tend to carry a folding knife on me most of the time, as a habit from being in the military.

From a personal safety standpoint, I would rather be charged after having to use dog spray/a knife than end up a victim.

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Re: Women running and safety

Postby ultraslacker » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:43 pm

Yup, me too.


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Re: Women running and safety

Postby NMG » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:59 am

eme wrote:From a personal safety standpoint, I would rather be charged after having to use dog spray/a knife than end up a victim.


Agreed. As an aside, can anyone find any evidence of someone who has actually been charged with using dog spray or a knife to legitimately defend themselves from an assault or rape? Or, is it just an urban legend and/or a misinterpretation of the law that this would occur?

Here is the section from the Criminal Code dealing with self defence:

34. (1) A person is not guilty of an offence if
(a) they believe on reasonable grounds that force is being used against them or another person or that a threat of force is being made against them or another person;
(b) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of defending or protecting themselves or the other person from that use or threat of force; and
(c) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.

Factors

(2) In determining whether the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances, the court shall consider the relevant circumstances of the person, the other parties and the act, including, but not limited to, the following factors:
(a) the nature of the force or threat;
(b) the extent to which the use of force was imminent and whether there were other means available to respond to the potential use of force;
(c) the person’s role in the incident;
(d) whether any party to the incident used or threatened to use a weapon;
(e) the size, age, gender and physical capabilities of the parties to the incident;
(f) the nature, duration and history of any relationship between the parties to the incident, including any prior use or threat of force and the nature of that force or threat;
(f.1) any history of interaction or communication between the parties to the incident;
(g) the nature and proportionality of the person’s response to the use or threat of force; and
(h) whether the act committed was in response to a use or threat of force that the person knew was lawful.

Full disclosure, I'm not a lawyer but it seems pretty clear that you are permitted to defend yourself.

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Re: Women running and safety

Postby eme » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:41 am

There have been cases of people using a firearm to defend themselves being charged. Sometimes the charges are dropped, but sometimes they are not.

You could be charged with possession of a prohibited device/improper storage in the case of a firearm, but not necessarily assault.

My guess in our scenario, that this factor would play a large part:
the size, age, gender and physical capabilities of the parties to the incident;


Not a lawyer either, but due to DH's work use of force escalation is a normal conversation in our household :lol:

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Re: Women running and safety

Postby Habs4ever » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:01 am

In all the years I've been running, I've never felt the need to have something to defend myself. Maybe that's a naive attitude, but I've always felt safe (from people). Last summer, I did have a close call with a person on a seculuded area of trail and took off as fast a I could, but again never felt in fear of my life, just creeped out. I've been startled by wildlife lots, but only once been worried enough to turn around.
I suppose I should think of it more, and possibly take a self defence course, but I'm now in my 50's and in my mind I think "who wants to attack an old lady".
I'd be inclined to take my chance and carry a knife or spray and worry about being charged later if in fact I had to use it. (Like eme said)
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby canalrunner » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:45 am

I feel fortunate that I don't think about this often, but there are places (some of the Toronto ravines come to mind) where I would not run at dusk. It is sad to me that this is a consideration and has to be part of the conversation.

We bought bear spray for my daughter...actually her grandpa bought it for her. She doesn't run but takes it with her (we hope) when she goes out late. Doesn't carry it with her all the time. The knife looks a little too "American" for my liking. Not sure how I would feel if I bought one for my daughter and she ended up killing someone with it.
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:04 am

while it would be technically possible to kill someone with it, I think you'd have to really want to. It's really more of a deterrent. The blade is tiny! The idea is to grab and jab, not to kill. The blade is sharp but small... good enough to hurt someone but not enough to kill them unless you were trying to do so.

I carry mine for all kinds of animals... human and other!
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby purdy65 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:09 am

Habs4ever wrote:In all the years I've been running, I've never felt the need to have something to defend myself. Maybe that's a naive attitude, but I've always felt safe (from people). Last summer, I did have a close call with a person on a seculuded area of trail and took off as fast a I could, but again never felt in fear of my life, just creeped out. I've been startled by wildlife lots, but only once been worried enough to turn around.
I suppose I should think of it more, and possibly take a self defence course, but I'm now in my 50's and in my mind I think "who wants to attack an old lady".
I'd be inclined to take my chance and carry a knife or spray and worry about being charged later if in fact I had to use it. (Like eme said)


Exactly my feelings on the issue. When is is dark, however, I do tend to do more loops closer to home. The parks and trails are so busy when I run on them (Sat or Sun morning), I'm never nervous - I definitely wouldn't run them in the dark though - ever.

Common sense just needs to reign supreme when planning your runs.
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby eme » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:15 am

ultraslacker wrote:while it would be technically possible to kill someone with it, I think you'd have to really want to. It's really more of a deterrent. The blade is tiny! The idea is to grab and jab, not to kill. The blade is sharp but small... good enough to hurt someone but not enough to kill them unless you were trying to do so.

I carry mine for all kinds of animals... human and other!


Exactly. For someone that is going to attack another person, say in this case a women running - they are looking for a "soft" target. As soon as you fight back with any kind of skill/determination/weapon there is a good chance that the attacker is going to bolt and not want a fight.

The chance of killing anyone is very slim in this kind of scenario - you are only going to do enough to stop the threat (make them run away) and get away yourself - that is also all you can legally do. If the threat is running away, they are no longer a threat and your escalation of force stops there.

For myself, I do not carry any weapons when I run, but I am also mindful of where I run and when. If I run when it is dark, I keep to busy well lit streets. I save the trails for busy (more people) weekend daytime runs. I also run in the city, so the most that I encounter for animals are dogs.

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Re: Women running and safety

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:23 am

Yeah... I'm often alone in the trails and I prefer NOT to be in well-populated areas, so that's why I take the extra precaution (I also carry bear bangers, flares, a whistle, an emergency jacket, etc, and I keep my phone in airplane mode so that the battery doesn't die).
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby NMG » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:35 am

I don't typically carry anything with me either, but I'm also 6'0 and around 210 lbs. so I'm probably not going to attract much attention from thugs looking for an "easy" target.

The only close call I've ever had was back home with a cow moose and two of her calves. They were about 50 yards away from me across a small swamp and I was on a trail that ran adjacent to it. Momma moose was VERY observant of me and at one point she started to head down the swamp to cut me off where I would have progressed along the trail headed in their somewhat direction. I turned around and went back where I came from. I'm not scared of much, but I ain't messing with no moose. Or clowns. I hate clowns.

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Re: Women running and safety

Postby turd ferguson » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:59 am

NMG wrote: Or clowns. I hate clowns.


Exactly.
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby turd ferguson » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:01 pm

I think its a mistake to focus on devices and not on training.

If you've never handled a knife before, is it really smart to pull out a knife on another person. Who might be either (a) experienced in knife-fighting and/or (b) full of meth? Similar for bear spray.

I'm 100% percent in favour of defending yourself but getting a weapon and no training seems like a giant mistake waiting to happen.
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:04 pm

turd ferguson wrote:I'm 100% percent in favour of defending yourself but getting a weapon and no training seems like a giant mistake waiting to happen.


which is why we were talking about self defence classes above. ;)
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Re: Women running and safety

Postby turd ferguson » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:11 pm

ultraslacker wrote:
turd ferguson wrote:I'm 100% percent in favour of defending yourself but getting a weapon and no training seems like a giant mistake waiting to happen.


which is why we were talking about self defence classes above. ;)


Did I join the thread too late to agree?
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