ORW Weather Forecast . . .

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Jwolf
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Jwolf » Tue May 31, 2016 5:43 pm

Robinandamelia wrote:... but my understanding was the choice was made at 4 hours with 10K to go which could be 2 hours which is still only 6. I may have understood wrong though


They rerouted people were at the 24K mark after 4 hours, so would have still had 18K to go. They cut off the loop which was from about 24-35K. So these people finished the shortened course in 5+ hours, but would have otherwise been over 7.

Many of the people on the "shortened course" list must have cut off by their own choice before the 11:00 decision. But that part of the course wasn't actually closed yet. That is, someone with a time of under around 4 hours on the shortened course must have taken the rerouting by choice.

The longest times for full finishers was 6:48-- that seems reasonable.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Jwolf » Tue May 31, 2016 5:56 pm

Also wanted to add that there doesn't seem to be any backlash against this decision from the people who were there-- although maybe I'm not connected enough in the social media loop.

I remember a lot of upset runners when Chicago did a similar thing back in 2007.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby deerdree » Tue May 31, 2016 6:16 pm

Jwolf wrote:
Robinandamelia wrote:... but my understanding was the choice was made at 4 hours with 10K to go which could be 2 hours which is still only 6. I may have understood wrong though


They rerouted people were at the 24K mark after 4 hours, so would have still had 18K to go. They cut off the loop which was from about 24-35K. So these people finished the shortened course in 5+ hours, but would have otherwise been over 7.

Many of the people on the "shortened course" list must have cut off by their own choice before the 11:00 decision. But that part of the course wasn't actually closed yet. That is, someone with a time of under around 4 hours on the shortened course must have taken the rerouting by choice.

The longest times for full finishers was 6:48-- that seems reasonable.

cut off by their own choice? you're suggesting that at 9:30am, a bunch of people started cutting the course before the official decision was made to shorten it? i mean, that's possible, but it seems a bit odd. under normal circumstances, that would've been cheating. so did they know it was an option? was it announced somewhere?

for the record, i don't disagree with the decision to reroute the slower runners. it's just curious because based on the official explanation "around the four hour mark of the marathon, race organizers decided to shorten the course by about 10 kilometres by redirecting the slowest participants over the Alexandra Bridge", you would expect the "shortened course" list to be filled with people who were on pace to finish in over 7 hours. instead, it's mostly (at least the first of two pages) filled with people who were at 25K at 10am, an hour before the decision to shorten was made. these weren't the "slowest participants", based on the splits provided.

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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Jwolf » Tue May 31, 2016 6:35 pm

Maybe they were given the choice at that point by the race officials?
I'm not sure but I'm just saying no one at that point HAD to take the shorter route because the decision hadn't been made to close the loop yet. So those faster runners (like your example above) shouldn't really be a part of the "should they or shouldn't they (the race directors) have shortened the course" discussion. Only the slower runners had no choice and were affected by the decision.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby HCcD » Tue May 31, 2016 7:04 pm

From my understanding the RD had put up the Black Flag, which I assume is the signal to slow down and/or stop .. such the case some runners may have heeded that while others ignored it and continued on .. Perhaps, Mark could pipe in and/or another other of the marathoners who completed the entire course ?? Newbie, perhaps ??

We were very, very fortunate with the turn of the weather conditions, for Sunday, as the original forecast was 28-31c plus humidex, similar to that experienced on Saturday, in particular for the 5K and 10k races ... so, 21c at the start time with an overcast was quite pleasant until about 10:15-10:30 am when the sun popped out behind the clouds .. the temperature felt as it rose 5-10c in the period once the overcast lifted..

For the half marathoners, the 45 minute earlier start paid dividends for the sub-2hr half marathoners, in my opinion ... Don't get me wrong, 23-25c and overcast was still warm ... Ha !!! but, compared to 28-29c plus humidex .. it was heaven ...
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Dstew » Tue May 31, 2016 7:59 pm

My 2 cents:

This is a hobby and so in my opinion, if you are not in the top 3 of your age group and the time is not to be used to qualify for another race, does it really matter where you are listed relative to other runners? This is from a person who has waited one hour to see my results at the race site because I could not wait a couple of hours to see them posted on line. I was in one race series with what had to be one of the worst timers in the history of racing. I would have won my age group in one race but he got that wrong I was 4th. I was going to protest and would have gotten it corrected but I would have had to wait an hour more to do that and so one less medal was not going to make any difference. Plus in my mind I know what I did and as this is a hobby I pay to do, that was good enough for me.

As an aside, had to wait two hours for him to screw up the series results and so I did not my proper recognition on the day. I complained to the series owner and they corrected the official record but again, as I knew what I had done, that was oddly unrewarding to have it made official. And ironically, the last time I ran the series I was awarded the series win when I had finished second. The person who had beaten me was not going to say anything. We went to have to fixed up but had been there for 3 hours and did not want to waste any more time. So I convinced him to give me the second place "trophy" and the first place one to the proper winner.

The only person who has ever looked at my old race results is me and again, since I know what I did, that is what really counts and matters.


The problem I see in letting people continue on is there is a lack of personal responsibility and accountability. If someone were to die, I can guarantee you that the Estate would sue the race. The other issue is that if someone were to need medical aid because they continued on against the advice provided by the medical team, then they should be personally and fiscally responsible for the cost to provide medical aid. It baffles me as to why someone would think because they paid $125 to run a race that when they were not to listen the advice of a race director, they also believe they should be entitled to hundreds of thousands of dollars of free medical care. I am not arguing there are true medical emergencies but if there is a certain degree of foresee-ability, then if you make a dumb choice you should pay the price.

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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Nicholas » Tue May 31, 2016 8:02 pm

I was working just past the finish line and had 2 or 3 marathoners cross the line and ask me where the rest of their course was. The first guy crossed at 3 hours (10am), so not at all impacted by the later decision to shut off 10K. I was wondering whether some folks got confused with the merging and followed the wrong crowd? Especially, with the start time being moved, there may have been more marathoners and halfers mingling and therefore more chance for creating confusion.
I have never seen so many people being transported from the finish line by the medics, nor seen so many people absolutely "glowing" as they shuffled past. Tough day for all concerned and even more for those who were out there past 10.30 or so when the sun came out.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Jwolf » Tue May 31, 2016 9:09 pm

Gimp wrote:I was working just past the finish line and had 2 or 3 marathoners cross the line and ask me where the rest of their course was. The first guy crossed at 3 hours (10am), so not at all impacted by the later decision to shut off 10K. I was wondering whether some folks got confused with the merging and followed the wrong crowd? Especially, with the start time being moved, there may have been more marathoners and halfers mingling and therefore more chance for creating confusion.

Ah, that makes sense and would explain why there are so many people on the "shortened course" list that didn't need to be.

That's too bad if some people didn't do the whole course that intended to.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby HCcD » Tue May 31, 2016 9:36 pm

Jwolf wrote:
Gimp wrote:I was working just past the finish line and had 2 or 3 marathoners cross the line and ask me where the rest of their course was. The first guy crossed at 3 hours (10am), so not at all impacted by the later decision to shut off 10K. I was wondering whether some folks got confused with the merging and followed the wrong crowd? Especially, with the start time being moved, there may have been more marathoners and halfers mingling and therefore more chance for creating confusion.

Ah, that makes sense and would explain why there are so many people on the "shortened course" list that didn't need to be.

That's too bad if some people didn't do the whole course that intended to.


Have to admit, from the 2hr half marathon per point of view, it makes total sense ... Coming up off Alexandria Bridge .. 17.5k for half marathoners and 28k or so for marathoners, it was very crowded and noisy and the "Y" split where the half marathoners go right (south) and marathoners go left (north) .. Was very difficult to follow the instructions, especially if one was wearing a earbuds ??

Then again, it is the Runner's responsibility to know the course, blah blah blah ??
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby scrumhalfgirl » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:56 am

My guess from knowing the course is that people made a mistake at the turn off unrelated to heat.

That being said - I think we forget about the crowd we deal with on here who are pretty well prepared for races, understand the logistics etc. My DH had a former colleague who had wanted to run the full, but hadn't trained enough so signed up for the half. She started with the half, but at the split around 17 km, decided she felt good and took the marathon cut off to "run the marathon instead". Well, the 17k mark for the half is actually the 24 or 25 k mark for the marathon because they make up more distance in the first half. So she's bragging all over FB about running the marathon, when she really ran a 30 ish k run with a half marathon bib!
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Robinandamelia » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:38 am

I ran that race once in 2011 and at that time, people turned at the 10K mark that were supposed to be running the full...so clearly, this is an ongoing problem.

That's a good explanation and unfortunate. Those shortened race runners on the first page were pretty quick and definitely not back of the packers....

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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Pat29 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:52 am

I'm not sure how much of a problem people cutting the course at that point is. I've run the marathon 8 times now and this is the first I've heard of it. Personally I've never noticed a problem with the signage there. It seems clear to me and if people are paying attention there shouldn't be an issue.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Jwolf » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:36 pm

scrumhalfgirl wrote:My guess from knowing the course is that people made a mistake at the turn off unrelated to heat.

That being said - I think we forget about the crowd we deal with on here who are pretty well prepared for races, understand the logistics etc. My DH had a former colleague who had wanted to run the full, but hadn't trained enough so signed up for the half. She started with the half, but at the split around 17 km, decided she felt good and took the marathon cut off to "run the marathon instead". Well, the 17k mark for the half is actually the 24 or 25 k mark for the marathon because they make up more distance in the first half. So she's bragging all over FB about running the marathon, when she really ran a 30 ish k run with a half marathon bib!

That's insane.
Experienced runner or not, she had to realize she didn't actually run the marathon. Unless she's just really clueless.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby canalrunner » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:39 am

I am going to assume that most people who had shortened races at ORW were making smart health decisions (or were having those decisions made for them) regardless of their pace. I had 2 pacers DNF in the marathon and 1 in the half, and several others well off mark (as well as a lot of really really accurate pacing). By 10:30, the flags had gone to black so the cut off of runners at the Art Gallery and a shortened course made sense. It is not only the runners but all the support that is out on course that needs to be considered. Best to focus resources and runners at that stage. Few complaints because it was handled well and was the right call. Awesome response by the community to help runners make it a memorable experience.
Last edited by canalrunner on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby La » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:14 am

scrumhalfgirl wrote:My guess from knowing the course is that people made a mistake at the turn off unrelated to heat.

Gimp wrote:I was working just past the finish line and had 2 or 3 marathoners cross the line and ask me where the rest of their course was. The first guy crossed at 3 hours (10am), so not at all impacted by the later decision to shut off 10K. I was wondering whether some folks got confused with the merging and followed the wrong crowd? Especially, with the start time being moved, there may have been more marathoners and halfers mingling and therefore more chance for creating confusion.
I have never seen so many people being transported from the finish line by the medics, nor seen so many people absolutely "glowing" as they shuffled past. Tough day for all concerned and even more for those who were out there past 10.30 or so when the sun came out.

Good points - most seasoned runners would prepare themselves enough ahead of time to know how to follow course markers for the race they're running. In this case, the last-minute decision to start the Half 45 minutes earlier meant that the marathoner/half-marathoners were on the course at the same time a lot sooner, so those turn-offs that are only applicable to one course could get confusing if people are just blindly following the runners in front of them.
scrumhalfgirl wrote:That being said - I think we forget about the crowd we deal with on here who are pretty well prepared for races, understand the logistics etc. My DH had a former colleague who had wanted to run the full, but hadn't trained enough so signed up for the half. She started with the half, but at the split around 17 km, decided she felt good and took the marathon cut off to "run the marathon instead". Well, the 17k mark for the half is actually the 24 or 25 k mark for the marathon because they make up more distance in the first half. So she's bragging all over FB about running the marathon, when she really ran a 30 ish k run with a half marathon bib!

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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby HCcD » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:51 am

scrumhalfgirl wrote:My guess from knowing the course is that people made a mistake at the turn off unrelated to heat.

That being said - I think we forget about the crowd we deal with on here who are pretty well prepared for races, understand the logistics etc. My DH had a former colleague who had wanted to run the full, but hadn't trained enough so signed up for the half. She started with the half, but at the split around 17 km, decided she felt good and took the marathon cut off to "run the marathon instead". Well, the 17k mark for the half is actually the 24 or 25 k mark for the marathon because they make up more distance in the first half. So she's bragging all over FB about running the marathon, when she really ran a 30 ish k run with a half marathon bib!


So, did she end up with a half marathon medal and/or argue her way for a marathon medal, albeit sorta kinda running most of it as a bandit in the race? Ha !!! :what: :shifty:

eta: Her official half marathon time on Sportstats is probably nothing to brag about ??
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby dgrant » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:10 am

I really hope the race organizers use this as impetus to finally move the race date. It seems obvious that the last weekend in May is way too late for a marathon in Ottawa. It's too bad that one of ORW's defining characteristics - along with great organization and positive civic reaction - is punishing race conditions.

I have a picture from my first marathon (2002) when the National Capital Marathon was on the second Sunday in May... everyone in the photo including me is running in shorts and long sleeve t-shirt. It was great. Ottawa in very early May is perfect running weather.

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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby Kelodie » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:41 pm

canalrunner wrote:I am going to assume that most people who had shortened races at ORW were making smart health decisions (or were having those decisions made for them) regardless of their pace. I had 2 pacers DNF in the marathon and 1 in the half, and several others well off mark (as well as a lot of really really accurate pacing). By 10:30, the flags had gone to black so the cut off of runners at the Art Gallery and a shortened course made sense. It is not only the runners but all the support that is out on course that needs to be considered. Best to focus resources and runners at that stage. Few complaints because it was handled well and was the right call. Awesome response by the community to help runners make it a memorable experience.


When I rode past the point where Half and Full marathoners split on the Quebec side, it was well signed and there were volunteers spotting the marathoners from the wave of halfers and instructing them to go left. From what I saw coming off of Alexandria, it was also properly signed, but maybe with a few less volunteers and a big noisy crowd to distract the runners.

I saw a lot of runners making good decisions, slowing down or walking. I saw the people of Ottawa/Gatineau rally around the runners to cheer them on and provide them with refreshment. It truly was something to witness. I was proud to call this place my home.
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby HCcD » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:03 pm

Kelodie wrote:
canalrunner wrote:I am going to assume that most people who had shortened races at ORW were making smart health decisions (or were having those decisions made for them) regardless of their pace. I had 2 pacers DNF in the marathon and 1 in the half, and several others well off mark (as well as a lot of really really accurate pacing). By 10:30, the flags had gone to black so the cut off of runners at the Art Gallery and a shortened course made sense. It is not only the runners but all the support that is out on course that needs to be considered. Best to focus resources and runners at that stage. Few complaints because it was handled well and was the right call. Awesome response by the community to help runners make it a memorable experience.


When I rode past the point where Half and Full marathoners split on the Quebec side, it was well signed and there were volunteers spotting the marathoners from the wave of halfers and instructing them to go left. From what I saw coming off of Alexandria, it was also properly signed, but maybe with a few less volunteers and a big noisy crowd to distract the runners.

I saw a lot of runners making good decisions, slowing down or walking. I saw the people of Ottawa/Gatineau rally around the runners to cheer them on and provide them with refreshment. It truly was something to witness. I was proud to call this place my home.


The only thing that I noticed this year, as compared to previous years, when I ran the half marathon distance was that, the crowds was very congested at the split at the Art Museum to Sussex, appeared to be all over the roads this year? Perhaps, due to the fact that the half marathon started 45 minutes earlier ??
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby scrumhalfgirl » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:53 pm

HCcD wrote:
scrumhalfgirl wrote:My guess from knowing the course is that people made a mistake at the turn off unrelated to heat.

That being said - I think we forget about the crowd we deal with on here who are pretty well prepared for races, understand the logistics etc. My DH had a former colleague who had wanted to run the full, but hadn't trained enough so signed up for the half. She started with the half, but at the split around 17 km, decided she felt good and took the marathon cut off to "run the marathon instead". Well, the 17k mark for the half is actually the 24 or 25 k mark for the marathon because they make up more distance in the first half. So she's bragging all over FB about running the marathon, when she really ran a 30 ish k run with a half marathon bib!


So, did she end up with a half marathon medal and/or argue her way for a marathon medal, albeit sorta kinda running most of it as a bandit in the race? Ha !!! :what: :shifty:

eta: Her official half marathon time on Sportstats is probably nothing to brag about ??


somehow she got a full medal, even though she had a half bib!
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby HCcD » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:01 pm

scrumhalfgirl wrote:
HCcD wrote:
scrumhalfgirl wrote:My guess from knowing the course is that people made a mistake at the turn off unrelated to heat.

That being said - I think we forget about the crowd we deal with on here who are pretty well prepared for races, understand the logistics etc. My DH had a former colleague who had wanted to run the full, but hadn't trained enough so signed up for the half. She started with the half, but at the split around 17 km, decided she felt good and took the marathon cut off to "run the marathon instead". Well, the 17k mark for the half is actually the 24 or 25 k mark for the marathon because they make up more distance in the first half. So she's bragging all over FB about running the marathon, when she really ran a 30 ish k run with a half marathon bib!


So, did she end up with a half marathon medal and/or argue her way for a marathon medal, albeit sorta kinda running most of it as a bandit in the race? Ha !!! :what: :shifty:

eta: Her official half marathon time on Sportstats is probably nothing to brag about ??


somehow she got a full medal, even though she had a half bib!


Actually, not that surprised, as they don't really check your bib when walking through the line after crossing the finish line ... Left line get marathon medal while right lane gets half marathon and/or visa versa ?? :what:
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Re: ORW Weather Forecast . . .

Postby HCcD » Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:42 am

And, speaking on the topic of banditting and/or running under someone else's bib... apparently, at least 3 runners have since been DQ'd by the Race Organizers for running under someone else's bib .. apparently, a guy ran under a women's bib and came in high overall in the rankings ??
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