I need a speed work refresher!

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La
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I need a speed work refresher!

Postby La » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:48 am

Our clinic is starting speed work this week (only 4 sessions in total before race day, I think). the original program called for 1-mile repeats but the instructor is having us do 400m repeats (with equal distance rest, so longer recovery time). I'm not sure how many we're doing.

I can't seem to find a good online resource that talks about the different types of speed/interval workouts, and which ones are best for long distance runners. And what the right ratio of interval time to rest time is.

Thoughts?
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby Jwolf » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:13 pm

The length of intervals and ratio to rest depends so much on what you're training for and what the desired effect is. For example, if someone says "mile repeats" they may be talking about something like 3 x 1 mile with 0.5 mile recovery at 5K pace, or they might mean a marathon workout like 6-8 x 1 mile at half-marathon pace. Totally different workouts, but nominally both "mile repeats". Physiologically there are differences, and there are so many different types depending on your goals...

However, I think for a few weeks of speed work in a program like yours, the main thing is that you want to be going a hard effort, faster than your race pace that you can repeat for the number of intervals given.

I did some searching and found this to be a decent article but really just covers the basics.

http://running.competitor.com/2014/04/t ... ers_8047/5

The speed work in the running room programs tends to be the standard track-type intervals which is described on the last page of the article.
The author says generally you would be doing 2-3 miles of speed at your 5K pace, broken up over several intervals. If you don't know your 5K pace it's not critical, but you want to be doing something faster than your goal half-marathon pace and something you can repeat without slowing down. I think the RR actually suggests 10K pace. The Running Room program has 3 x 1-mile repeats (like described in the article), so I'm not really sure why your instructor is changing that-- but both can be good for a half-marathon program. I assume you'll be doing 8-12 repeats (2-3 miles). One recommendation for speed work is that the hard running shouldn't be more than about 10% of your total weekly mileage.

The article actually says recoveries should be half the time of the interval, but I've normally seen 75%-100% of the time of the interval for short track-type. For your 400m intervals, a full lap at 400m jog will take you more time for your recovery, but she may be doing this to make it more convenient-- it doesn't matter too much though.

eta: here's another good article, and this one does recommend 400m recovery for 400m intervals.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/ ... 26926.html
Races for 2018:
January 28: MEC Race #1 (Stanley Park) 10K- Done!
February 11: First Half Half-Marathon- Done!
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April 14: MEC Race #3 (Burnaby Lake) 10K Done!
April 22: Vancouver Sun Run 10K Done!
May 6: BMO Half-Marathon - switch to 8K Done!
May 20: Red Deer Half-Marathon -switch to 10K Done!
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July 22: MEC Race #5 (Riverfront Park) 10K or 5K not done
Sept 22: Seawheeze Half-Marathon may cancel this
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La
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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby La » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:59 am

Thanks for the input. It's been so long since I've done this kind of training I forgot a lot of the theory.
Jwolf wrote: The Running Room program has 3 x 1-mile repeats (like described in the article), so I'm not really sure why your instructor is changing that-- but both can be good for a half-marathon program. I assume you'll be doing 8-12 repeats (2-3 miles). One recommendation for speed work is that the hard running shouldn't be more than about 10% of your total weekly mileage.

She's changing it because of feedback she's received from past participants that they weren't able to pace themselves effectively for a 1-mile interval. Also, increasing by 1 mile every week was too much of an increase. I think we're starting with 6 and increasing to 8 (we only have 3 weeks of speed before we taper).

The 400s we'll be doing are closer in time to what our hill repeats were (i.e., roughly 2 minutes of hard effort, followed by full recovery). I doubt that I'll be able to run them much faster than 2:15-2:20 (that would be a 5:45/km pace, which is fast for me right now). I think the key is being able to run all 6 repeats at the same intensity.

It's supposed to be windy tonight, but we're doing our repeats going north and the wind will be coming from the SW.
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby Jwolf » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:36 am

La wrote:She's changing it because of feedback she's received from past participants that they weren't able to pace themselves effectively for a 1-mile interval. Also, increasing by 1 mile every week was too much of an increase. I think we're starting with 6 and increasing to 8 (we only have 3 weeks of speed before we taper).

The 400s we'll be doing are closer in time to what our hill repeats were (i.e., roughly 2 minutes of hard effort, followed by full recovery). I doubt that I'll be able to run them much faster than 2:15-2:20 (that would be a 5:45/km pace, which is fast for me right now). I think the key is being able to run all 6 repeats at the same intensity.


OK, that makes sense-- I forgot that the RR program increases by one mile week to week. That is a bit odd version of speed work for a half-marathon plan anyway (especially the first time you do speed work!), so I agree with the idea of changing it to 400s.

Hope the wind isn't too bad. Are you doing the repeats on a straight-away and not at a track?
Races for 2018:
January 28: MEC Race #1 (Stanley Park) 10K- Done!
February 11: First Half Half-Marathon- Done!
March 18: MEC Race #2 (Pacific Spirit Park) 10K - Done!
April 14: MEC Race #3 (Burnaby Lake) 10K Done!
April 22: Vancouver Sun Run 10K Done!
May 6: BMO Half-Marathon - switch to 8K Done!
May 20: Red Deer Half-Marathon -switch to 10K Done!
June 10: MEC Race #4 (Garry Point Park) 10K Done!
July 22: MEC Race #5 (Riverfront Park) 10K or 5K not done
Sept 22: Seawheeze Half-Marathon may cancel this
Sept 30: MEC Race #6 (Garry Point Park) 10K or 5K

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La
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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby La » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:56 am

Jwolf wrote:Hope the wind isn't too bad. Are you doing the repeats on a straight-away and not at a track?

Yes. The tracks are too far away from the store to be practical. We have a nice wide sidewalk/path to run on next to a park, uninterrupted by cross streets. It might be a smidge over 400m, depending on where we start/end.
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby ultraslacker » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:30 am

There was an old classic thread here where Michael and ian taught us all the details and theory of speed work... maybe dee could find it for us?? It was an incredible thread.
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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby ultraslacker » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:43 am

"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby deerdree » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:58 am

ultraslacker wrote:oh I found it: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=35907

Image

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La
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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby La » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:27 pm

deerdree wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:oh I found it: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=35907

Image

:lol:
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

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Re: I need a speed work refresher!

Postby IronColl » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:16 pm

La wrote:The 400s we'll be doing are closer in time to what our hill repeats were (i.e., roughly 2 minutes of hard effort, followed by full recovery). I doubt that I'll be able to run them much faster than 2:15-2:20 (that would be a 5:45/km pace, which is fast for me right now). I think the key is being able to run all 6 repeats at the same intensity.


And that's when the amount of recovery or rest you take becomes important.
If all that you read is everything you believe then let go, then let go, then let go.

Nothing will change if you never choose.

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