changing "natural" pace

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alexk
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changing "natural" pace

Postby alexk » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:07 am

I've been thinking about this and would like some opinions. Do you think you can change your natural (for lack of a better word) running pace if you've been running for a long time - like 15 plus years? By natural pace, I mean the pace you would naturally run at if you were to go out for a run without any agenda (not a tempo run, not an easy run etc) - just a run.

I'm asking this because I'm evaluating some of my running goals. I'd love to try and improve my marathon time, if even by just a bit. My usual pace is a 8 to 8:15 minute mile. I was looking at Lorne's training summary and noticed his regular pace was always below 8 minutes except for LSDs (sorry to bring attention to you Lorne, lol). I don't think I can be as speedy as Lorne, but I've approached my training in many ways and always seem to end up in the same spot. I still plan to do the other stuff - tempo runs, easy runs, strides, lsds - but I'm wondering if I get used to running at a bit faster than my normal pace, will this help or hurt me?

If my fitness is there, would a push to run a bit faster be ok? I've got some time to play around with things before I start my next training cycle.

Thanks in advance.
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eme
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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby eme » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:15 am

I think that it is completely possible.

I know that my 'natural' pace for running sped up after I started working with a coach. Granted, I am training for triathlon but I do still run stand alone half marathons and my 'easy' pace for a run is faster than it was prior to training with my coach.

I am not saying that you need a coach to do this, for me it worked as I don't have the time/inclination to research what workouts I need to do in order to accomplish this (okay, I like to be told what to do :lol:).

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La
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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby La » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:41 am

I think we get into a "natural" pace (as you call it) when we are in a state of equilibrium. In other words, nothing has changed to affect the pace you run at. For example, if things like your weight, your frequency of running, the types of running workouts you do, and your total weekly/monthly mileage have remained the same, then your pace will probably stay the same. The only thing that has changed over time is your age. :wink:

If you want to change your average pace, then you'll have to change at least one thing. The trick is in figuring out what that thing is. :wink:

As the saying goes, if you keep doing the same thing over and over, you are going to get the same results!
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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby Jwolf » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:06 pm

One thing I learned when I did my HR testing -- as you do your easy runs, if you don't make an effort to keep it up you could continue with a "natural" pace that is actually too slow as you improve aerobically. That is, if you're improving, your aerobic pace should also get faster, but it will feel tougher on your body as you get used to it. You do have to consciously speed up. As you get more used to it, it will become more natural.

The trick is to not try to force it into that zone that's too fast to be really aerobic, because that can cause you to plateau and not improve. You'll have trouble hitting your harder paces and fall into that "one-pace runner" problem.
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दिवंगत
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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby दिवंगत » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:14 pm

Yes. The answer is to run faster. More. ;) This time last year my natural pace was around 5:45/k; right now it's around 5:00/k, give or take a few seconds. The difference is solely down to training volume and focus.

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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby turd ferguson » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:18 pm

1Ironatatime wrote:Yes. The answer is to run faster. More. ;) This time last year my natural pace was around 5:45/k; right now it's around 5:00/k, give or take a few seconds. The difference is solely down to training volume and focus.


This.

To put it in the immortal words of Robbie-T, "make the uncomfortable comfortable". What's unthinkable today could be your tempo pace before too long, and your "natural" pace not too long after that.
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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby Ironboy » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:23 pm

turd ferguson wrote:
1Ironatatime wrote:Yes. The answer is to run faster. More. ;) This time last year my natural pace was around 5:45/k; right now it's around 5:00/k, give or take a few seconds. The difference is solely down to training volume and focus.


This.

To put it in the immortal words of Robbie-T, "make the uncomfortable comfortable". What's unthinkable today could be your tempo pace before too long, and your "natural" pace not too long after that.



Conversely, I would say, as your fitness increases your "natural pace" will also increase.

How do you increase your fitness? Run more, run longer, run easy, run hard, run intervals, run tempos, rest and recover then repeat.

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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby alexk » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:38 pm

Very positive feedback - thanks. I've never had a coach; maybe now is the time. This past year, I have run more, farther, faster etc. and made fitness gains, but in quite some time (years, I'm talking) I don' know if that natural pace has changed. And maybe it's because I'm too subjective and too kind to myself (lol). This is where a coach would help.

Interestingly enough, when I made my last big improvement in my marathon time, I was running regularly with someone whose natural pace was a bit faster than mine. We didn't run with Garmins, so I don't know "exactly" how fast we were going. Now she's too fast for me; I'm her easy day.

As mentioned, the trick is finding the right pace. I was thinking I'd start with a 7:55ish minute/mile goal. Thoughts?
We train more joyfully and productively when we focus on the now, rather than on our future race day performance. It's a long road from here to there with many miles to go. We need to run each one. Accept where you are today and simply be thankful for the work you've accomplished. KA

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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby Joe Dwarf » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:49 pm

alexk wrote:As mentioned, the trick is finding the right pace. I was thinking I'd start with a 7:55ish minute/mile goal. Thoughts?
Do you have a heart rate monitor? Know what your max heart rate is? That can be helpful in finding the right pace.

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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby Hammie » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:58 pm

Joe Dwarf wrote:
alexk wrote:As mentioned, the trick is finding the right pace. I was thinking I'd start with a 7:55ish minute/mile goal. Thoughts?
Do you have a heart rate monitor? Know what your max heart rate is? That can be helpful in finding the right pace.


A HRM is a good idea, especially if you have it with a gps (like the garmin 305) to combine pace and HR info easily. I use mine mostly to make sure that my easy runs stay easy, and that my hard runs are hard enough. I have discovered that I can push my easy pace a bit more than I thought, and it keeps me honest in harder workouts. Over time, I've noticed that my easy pace (at the same average HR) has gotten a little faster than it used to be.
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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby MichaelMc » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:42 pm

I'm not sure your "natural" pace is holding you back. When I'm training for a marathon 90% of my runs are 5 min/km or slower, except in Winter when they are 5:15ish. My marathon pace is ~4 min/km. When I am running low miles and strictly for fun I let my pace come up a bit. "Natural" pace is probably some combination between simple habit and possibly a pace you are efficient at. A sign of a good runner is having a nice efficient stride at a wide range of paces; that way you can race different length races.

I think the trick is to always run a LITTLE bit of speedwork, which I define as anything faster than marathon pace (for marathoners). Your stride should SUBTLY change when you are going fast; it probably will do this naturally if you run some faster stuff on a regular basis. Many long term runners always train the same and run the same paces. Have you seen the many distance runners who still have a really low knee lift even when they are "sprinting"? That ISN'T efficient, it is habit.

IMO the way to break out of that is run the fast stuff FAST and the easy stuff EASY. I would concentrate on putting a progressive speedwork plan that really challenges you together and not worry at all about your "natural" pace.

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ian
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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby ian » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:49 pm

FWIW, my "natural pace" now is slower than it was five years ago, back when my race times were about 25% higher. That wasn't smart training on my part and I wasn't able to run more mileage until I learned to dial back my easy runs. As a result, I find a "train faster in order to race faster" mindset to be a bit of an oversimplification.

Ironboy wrote:Conversely, I would say, as your fitness increases your "natural pace" will also increase.

I agree with this: a faster "natural pace" is more likely to follow from increased fitness than it is to create increased fitness.

alexk wrote:Interestingly enough, when I made my last big improvement in my marathon time, I was running regularly with someone whose natural pace was a bit faster than mine. We didn't run with Garmins, so I don't know "exactly" how fast we were going. Now she's too fast for me; I'm her easy day.

I think it is a good idea to do some of your runs with other people, both faster and slower, so that you can practice extending the efficiencies and familiarity of your natural pace to other nearby paces. Just make sure that the overall training load (quality and quantity) keeps a good balance.

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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby turd ferguson » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:23 pm

ian wrote:FWIW, my "natural pace" now is slower than it was five years ago, back when my race times were about 25% higher. That wasn't smart training on my part and I wasn't able to run more mileage until I learned to dial back my easy runs. As a result, I find a "train faster in order to race faster" mindset to be a bit of an oversimplification.


Good point. I took the original post to mean "I want to be a faster runner", not "I want to run my easy runs faster".

As I've gotten faster, my "natural" pace, the pace I would settle in at if I didn't have a watch, has gotten faster, but I've deliberately slowed down my easy runs as well.
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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby mcshame » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:24 pm

ian wrote:
Ironboy wrote:Conversely, I would say, as your fitness increases your "natural pace" will also increase.

I agree with this: a faster "natural pace" is more likely to follow from increased fitness than it is to create increased fitness.


This is what I found. I call it my "Happy Pace". I found with the increased mileage and resulting increased fitness, my happy pace just improved. I used to have a happy pace in the 5:20s, then it moved to the 5:00 and then to 4:50. I did this with some speedwork, but not alot of focus on it. Most of it was mileage for marathon racing.

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Re: changing "natural" pace

Postby purdy65 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:43 am

Yep,

Volume and speed work reduced my "happy pace" to about 5:50 from well over 6 minutes.

My happy pace will vary though! After a rest day, my 'could run all day' pace is lower - like around 5:40.

I'm not sure how much more I can do to lower this, as this past cycle was about as much volume as I can do, so if there is any improvement, it'll be from the speedwork.

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