The 10-20-30 Training Concept

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HCcD
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The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby HCcD » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:30 am

Read an article in the recent Canadian Running Magazine and wondering if anyone have tried this 10-20-30 Training Concept yet? That is 10 seconds hard, 20 seconds moderate and 30 seconds easy for 5x sets then take a 2 minute rest/recovery then repeat another 2 sets for a total of 3 sets ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2N0Vn9hT0E
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jonovision_man
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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby jonovision_man » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:32 pm

Interesting. Looks fun actually...!

I have a bit of an issue with the study...
http://exercisescience.tumblr.com/post/ ... erformance

The 10-20-30 group improved performance by 6% in the 1500m and 4% in the 5-K run with no difference in the control group.
The 10-20-30 group increased their VO2max (maximal oxygen uptake) by 4% with no changes in the control group.
The 10-20-30 group lowered their total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol with no changes in the control group.
The 10-20-30 group’s systolic blood pressure was lower with no changes in the control group.


What was the control group doing that they managed to see no improvement at all...? Obviously not a well designed 5k program? I'm sure we're most interested to contrast a proper 5k program with 10-20-30 to see which is better, where they seemed to compare it with something entirely ineffective...

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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby jonovision_man » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:31 am

So... any takers to try it? ;). I'm curious.

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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby Mark.AU » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:36 am

jonovision_man wrote:So... any takers to try it? ;). I'm curious.

jono

Here's a bit of a radical idea... Why don't you try it?
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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby jonovision_man » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:43 am

Mark 2.0 wrote:
jonovision_man wrote:So... any takers to try it? ;). I'm curious.

jono

Here's a bit of a radical idea... Why don't you try it?


I wouldn't have asked if I wasn't considering it...

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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby mas_runner » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:33 am

Very difficult thing to test. Even using 1,000s of participants, age and sex matching them, and getting people of similar build and racing aggression would still likely not be enough.

It's one of those things that you can just give a try if you fancy it and if it works then great.
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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby jonovision_man » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:50 am

I tried it today, more for fun than for science.

I did 3 sets of 5x(30-20-10) with 2 minutes of rest between sets. And I did those 10s hard, my legs were flying!

I wasn't entirely sure how hard to do those 20s, so I kept a tempo pace more or less (a touch less).

Going that fast was interesting, really lengthened my stride vs what I would normally doing 5x1000's. At the end of the workout I felt really good still, so probably could have used a 4th set. Or maybe it's just an easier workout and I'll feel the pain later today?

It's certainly more fun than doing 5x1000s and I didn't feel that horrible I-want-to-die feeling I get 800m into the last 1000... :) I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. If a 5k were my goal (it isn't at the moment) I might alternate the two, they seem like very different workouts.

Opinions welcome!

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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby jgore » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:42 am

Looks like a toned-down version of the following:

30-30-30 = 30 seconds hard (as fast as possible), followed by 30 seconds slow jog, repeat 30 times = puke-athon.

Thanks to dgrant1 for that one. Best I ever managed was 30-30-10, 800 metre very slow jog, then repeat twice more.

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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby jonovision_man » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:55 am

jgore wrote:Looks like a toned-down version of the following:

30-30-30 = 30 seconds hard (as fast as possible), followed by 30 seconds slow jog, repeat 30 times = puke-athon.

Thanks to dgrant1 for that one. Best I ever managed was 30-30-10, 800 metre very slow jog, then repeat twice more.


That sounds a lot less fun! :lol: So it probably works.

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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby Jwolf » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:23 am

jgore wrote:Looks like a toned-down version of the following:

30-30-30 = 30 seconds hard (as fast as possible), followed by 30 seconds slow jog, repeat 30 times = puke-athon.

Thanks to dgrant1 for that one. Best I ever managed was 30-30-10, 800 metre very slow jog, then repeat twice more.


That's still pretty impressive.

For those having trouble translating, the last 30 is the repeats. So Jim did (30-30 x 10 ) x 3 with 800 m in between sets. Still 30 repeats.

The workout given in the link by Andy is only half that-- 15 repeats total.
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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby Dstew » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:19 am

When I read that, the first thing that came to mind is a variation on the McMaster study.

http://www.mcmaster.ca/opr/html/opr/med ... heart.html

http://jp.physoc.org/content/575/3/901. ... type=HWCIT

Then there was the updated version:

http://www.mcmaster.ca/opr/html/opr/med ... estudy.htm

What do the heads of this research say - not a newspaper but McMaster itself:

Exercising just got easier for busy people, study shows

I have tried both of the McMaster versions and I agree with the comment above that for someone who is training for a 5 K race, it is something to through into the mix of if things are getting a little stale or if you are like me and have attention deficit and easily bored with the same training routines.

I remember doing an even longer version of the same used by the French track team for 5 K races back in 2006 from a article in Runner's World. Short warm up, run 1 K intervals at race pace and 400 meter jogs.

Having said all of that, it strikes me that that workout that is the subject of this post is really directed towards someone who wants to improve their fitness level and not towards those focusing on a race.

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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby ian » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:34 pm

The 30-30-30 resembles something that Jack Daniels used to do with his cross country runners near the start of the season: large numbers of 200m repeats in a session, done multiple times in the target week so as to accumulate a marathon's worth of fast running.

Similarly, my own cross country team will occasionally do a "step" workout on the trails, typically as a ladder: 10 steps (counted on one side only) hard, 10 easy, 20 hard, 20 easy, et cetera up to 100 and then back down. I have found these workouts to be efficient (i.e., less than 20 minutes for a full ladder) and effective (increasing efficiency while edging back and forth over the redline), especially in a group setting where at least one of the people is particularly good at keeping track of everything.

Both of these examples are from the world of cross country running, where the short distance, limited passing opportunities, and varied terrain of the races necessitate the ability to generate short bursts of extra effort and then be able to recover back into a rhythm. For those of us who are training for road racing, this kind of training would probably be best as an occasional fun speedwork day, especially early in a training cycle when you're trying to shake some rust off and aren't quite ready to lock into specific training paces. Those programs with "strides" are essentially inserting a 30-30-10 in the middle of an otherwise easy run as a means for a secondary speedwork session.

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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby Wu wei » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:19 pm

My early season version.. a litte more rest, total of 90min:
15min w/u
8x[
4x[30s HARD, 1min easy], 1min easy
]
15min easy

Gets your legs moving fast! Always good. :)
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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby Pat Menzies » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:34 pm

You could roll numbers like dice or the lottery and convince people that if they run hard for whatever number comes up and rest for 30 seconds the gains will be like no other.
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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby Jwolf » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:18 pm

Pat Menzies wrote:You could roll numbers like dice or the lottery and convince people that if they run hard for whatever number comes up and rest for 30 seconds the gains will be like no other.


All you need is a fancy name and a hook. Sorry, but "Menzies' Minutes" doesn't really have much of a ring to it. :)
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Re: The 10-20-30 Training Concept

Postby Wu wei » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:34 pm

Pat Menzies wrote:You could roll numbers like dice or the lottery and convince people that if they run hard for whatever number comes up and rest for 30 seconds the gains will be like no other.


QFT.

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