3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

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3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jonovision_man » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:35 pm

I picked up the book "Run less run faster". (BTW - before I say anything else ... I hate the title! It implies you get something for nothing or for less work... it should be called "Run less (but make it up by doing more other stuff), run faster". Not as catchy I guess. :) )

For anyone that doesn't know about this plan, it's basically a 3-run-per-week marathon training plan, with 2 cross training sessions.

Anyone have any experience with it? How did it compare to other plans?

The book makes a lot of claims about people who improved, but they don't really compare their success to other pure-running plans. Their premise is that people don't do enough speedwork and put too much emphasis on miles without focusing on quality - I buy that, but there are other plans that focus on quality without abandoning running for their other workouts!

In any case, I'm thinking it's kind of perfect for spring marathon training for me, since I'd be doing the indoor trainer for cycling anyway. The "plus2" part is shorter rides than I'd normally do, but it's winter so bang-on. So I'm going to give it a shot this winter for my spring marathon... hopefully on the way to a PB. :dance:

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Jwolf » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:33 pm

There have been a few pretty long discussions on this plan back when it was covered in RW and when the book first came out. I could only find one more recent discussion, though:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=45225&hilit=FIRST+furman

Your assessment of the plan seems bang on: you don't get something for nothing, and it's overall a pretty tough plan. FWIW, the paces are a bit faster than most similar plans, but maybe not that much different than the new McMillan paces.

I don't know of anyone who has done it that can compare to a pure running plan with the same amount of quality running. It seems like a good plan for someone like you that wants to do a decent amount of quality cycling training, too. Good luck with it... hope it helps you focus on the quality and get some decent results. :)
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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jonovision_man » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:24 am

Thanks, I was looking for old threads but didn't find that one. Good to hear some success stories, looking forward to giving it a go.

BTW - the one comment that it made running less fun - c'mon, what could be more fun than torturing yourself with speedwork??? :twisted: :lol: I much prefer running fast!

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3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Jwolf » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:36 am

Did I say that? :)

If I did I probably meant that the plan seems very rigid, and I'm not a fan of those kinds of plans in general.

I like running fast too but I also like running a lot. I like some things about this plan but I've never really wanted to follow through with it because I tend to get injured on too much intensity.
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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jonovision_man » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:03 am

Jwolf wrote:Did I say that? :)

If I did I probably meant that the plan seems very rigid, and I'm not a fan of those kinds of plans in general.

I like running fast too but I also like running a lot. I like some things about this plan but I've never really wanted to follow through with it because I tend to get injured on too much intensity.


It wasn't you, don't worry! :)

I'm a little fuzzy on the "plus2" part of it - they basically say it can be any kind of non load-bearing cardio. In my experience, there is enough overlap between cycling and running muscles that it's not the same as doing something less related, like swimming for example. If I run, then do a 45 min Spinervals the next day, then try to run hard again, it's going to be a brutal 3 days!

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Jwolf » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:49 am

jonovision_man wrote:
Jwolf wrote:Did I say that? :)

If I did I probably meant that the plan seems very rigid, and I'm not a fan of those kinds of plans in general.

I like running fast too but I also like running a lot. I like some things about this plan but I've never really wanted to follow through with it because I tend to get injured on too much intensity.


It wasn't you, don't worry! :)

I'm a little fuzzy on the "plus2" part of it - they basically say it can be any kind of non load-bearing cardio. In my experience, there is enough overlap between cycling and running muscles that it's not the same as doing something less related, like swimming for example. If I run, then do a 45 min Spinervals the next day, then try to run hard again, it's going to be a brutal 3 days!

jono


It is supposed to be intense cardio. I can't remember exactly what's in the book, but I found this: http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Docu ... rkouts.pdf

Yes, I think I'd need some time to adapt to five days of that.
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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby MichaelMc » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:45 pm

I've gone on record with my impressions, but I'll repeat them.

If you compare it for running results to a similar time investment in a pure running program it will lose. It will also (on average) be a higher injury risk, although this may be more variable individual to individual. It is, in my opinion, marketed deceptively, overselling itself as "the answer". The idea is trading off endurance for intensity, which is NOT a direct trade off even if both are running. The further step is suggesting "aerobic" training is interchangable from activity to activity, which is also not true.

With all those criticisms in mind, if one is going to do the cross training anyway (for triathlon, other sports or simply because you like to) then the program might be a good option for you. Training is always a trade off of one factor for another, and for some people this IS the best available trade off. Like any training it will produce results, so it isn't a question of whether it works, it is whether the inherent trade offs suit your needs.

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jamix » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:56 pm

jonovision_man wrote:I picked up the book "Run less run faster". (BTW - before I say anything else ... I hate the title! It implies you get something for nothing or for less work... it should be called "Run less (but make it up by doing more other stuff), run faster". Not as catchy I guess. :) )

For anyone that doesn't know about this plan, it's basically a 3-run-per-week marathon training plan, with 2 cross training sessions.

Anyone have any experience with it? How did it compare to other plans?

The book makes a lot of claims about people who improved, but they don't really compare their success to other pure-running plans. Their premise is that people don't do enough speedwork and put too much emphasis on miles without focusing on quality - I buy that, but there are other plans that focus on quality without abandoning running for their other workouts!

In any case, I'm thinking it's kind of perfect for spring marathon training for me, since I'd be doing the indoor trainer for cycling anyway. The "plus2" part is shorter rides than I'd normally do, but it's winter so bang-on. So I'm going to give it a shot this winter for my spring marathon... hopefully on the way to a PB. :dance:

jono


I seem to follow a similar regime in my training, but not exactly. Whenever I'm feeling up-beat and eager to exercise hard for the upcoming week or two, I'll do it by running a moderate amount (all easy pace usually) as well as cycling and swimming. FYI; Not all cross-training is equal, and I find cycling is the only sport thus far that has any obvious influence on my running capacity.

I ran my third fastest 3-mile TT a few weeks back after doing a tough 9 day bout of heavier volume (which included setting a 12-hour week pb for most exercise done in a week). My running mileage for the 12-hour week was 66km, which isn't the most I've ever done but is still a respectable amount for me.

Following the above I did a 2-mile hard run, then 2 days after that I ran a 17:39 3-mile, which is 31 seconds off my best. Considering I was 11 lbs heavier than when I ran my 17:08 pb, I'd say it was still a good result.....All HAIL CROSS-TRAINING 8)
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Dstew » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:13 pm

After a winter of "base building", that is slow runs because of ice and snow, I used that general approach to qualify for my first Boston. "Your results may vary" but for me, this plan was actually better than the classic run only based training: I was tired but never injured and it seemed to suit my personality as I do enjoy running "fast" and I set a personal best. Strangely enough it also seemed to help my mental approach.

I have returned to this after a number of old injuries flared up near the end of my last training cycle and I also am digging the variety of the cross training.

In my personal view, one size does not fit all so Furman may be the answer if even for a small minority. I am in that small minority where more running results in injury and I start to regress. Having said that, neither am I a huge advocate as I agree that in theory, the faster paces would seem to increase the risk of injury in many people. The real title could be, Run Harder and Maybe Run Faster If it Suits You, but that might not sell as many copies.

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby ian » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:51 am

A couple of things have jumped out at me in this discussion as good examples of some lines of thought which occasionally turn up elsewhere on this board.

Dstew wrote:After a winter of "base building", that is slow runs because of ice and snow, I used that general approach to qualify for my first Boston.

The implication is that the more intense approach worked for you, but these training cycles are interrelated: the gains from the first one affected your progress with the second one. What would have happened if you switched the order? Or done all the training with only one method? Actually, I see this training transition as a large-scale form of periodization, wherein you can sometimes break through a fitness plateau by changing up the training focus. Seen in this light, the high intensity programs are probably well-suited to those with a decent base from recent conventional training.

I have returned to this after a number of old injuries flared up near the end of my last training cycle and I also am digging the variety of the cross training.

I agree that your mindset appears to be better suited by a program with more variety and intensity. From my perspective as an outsider, it seems like this may have played a role in your near-breakdown from the summer training, as it looked like you were chasing arbitrary mileage targets (500K for July, 100K weeks, etc.) and arbitrary speeds on training runs for the thrill of doing it moreso than the conviction that, after a bit of a layoff from running, your body was completely ready for this kind of training load. As a result, I'd be hesitant to call this a failure for conventional training methods. Furthermore, you did make it through in one piece, thereby setting the stage for a successful adjustment to the other training approach, as explained in my first point.

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3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Jwolf » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:52 am

Excellent points, Ian, as usual.
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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jonovision_man » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:44 am

Dstew wrote:I also am digging the variety of the cross training.


That's me - I'm a typical triathlete, too short of an attention span to stick to one sport exclusively! ;)

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Double Bellybuster » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:48 am

I think this works well for your running, cycling and triathlon goals. I'll be checking back for updates.
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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Dstew » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:21 pm

ian wrote:A couple of things have jumped out at me in this discussion as good examples of some lines of thought which occasionally turn up elsewhere on this board.

Dstew wrote:After a winter of "base building", that is slow runs because of ice and snow, I used that general approach to qualify for my first Boston.

The implication is that the more intense approach worked for you, but these training cycles are interrelated: the gains from the first one affected your progress with the second one. What would have happened if you switched the order? Or done all the training with only one method? Actually, I see this training transition as a large-scale form of periodization, wherein you can sometimes break through a fitness plateau by changing up the training focus. Seen in this light, the high intensity programs are probably well-suited to those with a decent base from recent conventional training.


I was attempting to convey but your conclusion is correct.

Your insight about the meta training cycles is something I am attempting to return to. The only caveat that I would add is that I have also developed a base from a well rounded winter gym program. Every weekend it would 30 minutes on the bike, elliptical and treadmill with a 60 minute + weights and resistance training and end in the pool for how ever long I could do that before I got tired, bored or the pool became crowded. Finish with a nice steam. During the week, it would be a much shorter work out. With spring, a couple of weeks to get my running legs, focus on speed work outs and was ready to race.

My troubles start when I essentially dropped most of the "cross training" and follow a conventional sort of approach on a year round basis. My theory is that although I felt like a real runner and could compete somewhat, I lost sight of the fact that at 5'11" 185 - 210 pounds, I really needed time off from pounding the pavement and some time to rebuild strength and balance.

For my case in any event, there is no debate that I need a very good base and only then will the more speed focused regime work. For me, that combination works best and as I said, that is based upon my physiology and I can easily see those with more a true runner's physiology would not benefit as much from this approach.

Doing the sort of high intensity work outs required from the Furman program from scratch is something I could never recommend. Three years of running and two years of intense race preparation before I tried the Furman approach and that change seemed to stimulate the break through I was looking for. I suspect had I started with Furman I would not have enjoyed the same results.
ian wrote:
david wrote:I have returned to this after a number of old injuries flared up near the end of my last training cycle and I also am digging the variety of the cross training.

I agree that your mindset appears to be better suited by a program with more variety and intensity. From my perspective as an outsider, it seems like this may have played a role in your near-breakdown from the summer training, as it looked like you were chasing arbitrary mileage targets (500K for July, 100K weeks, etc.) and arbitrary speeds on training runs for the thrill of doing it moreso than the conviction that, after a bit of a layoff from running, your body was completely ready for this kind of training load. As a result, I'd be hesitant to call this a failure for conventional training methods. Furthermore, you did make it through in one piece, thereby setting the stage for a successful adjustment to the other training approach, as explained in my first point.


My comments with regards to the conventional method were not just related to this marathon but previous marathon training cycles as well. This time was the best of the my attempts and I cannot say it was a "failure". With a very strong base built from resistance and other cross training combined with more "slow" running than I had done, my body was easily able to go beyond where I had gone before. You are 100% correct that if there was a failure it was because I was chasing arbitrary training goals but that then goes back to my personality. For ten weeks, running was great and fun. Then I started to get bored and disinterested so a series of goals that pushed my body past where it should have been passed. In short, a long term conventional approach, especially in specific preparation for a race is not liked by my body nor my mind. I have a great foundation to build upon and with my new approach to marathons as a fun tourist thing to do, the Furman approach just makes more sense for me. Shorter, higher intensity with maintaining strength and balance is a better fit for me. Having said that, I can see that for the lion's share of runners, this should not be the first option or even an option at all.

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jonovision_man » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:47 pm

Dstew wrote:My troubles start when I essentially dropped most of the "cross training" and follow a conventional sort of approach on a year round basis. My theory is that although I felt like a real runner and could compete somewhat, I lost sight of the fact that at 5'11" 185 - 210 pounds, I really needed time off from pounding the pavement and some time to rebuild strength and balance.


Hey you're one of "us"! :lol:

I'm about 6'0" and right now weigh in just shy of 185lbs. I was once as high as 235lbs, but wasn't a runner until I had dropped down to about 210lbs... and I've run as light as 168lbs.

There's no question in my mind which was easier on my body, that extra weight really puts a damper on how far you can go without risking injury. Currently working on getting back to the low 170's, that's where I felt best. And fastest. :)

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Dstew » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:49 am

jonovision_man wrote:
Dstew wrote:My troubles start when I essentially dropped most of the "cross training" and follow a conventional sort of approach on a year round basis. My theory is that although I felt like a real runner and could compete somewhat, I lost sight of the fact that at 5'11" 185 - 210 pounds, I really needed time off from pounding the pavement and some time to rebuild strength and balance.


Hey you're one of "us"! :lol:

I'm about 6'0" and right now weigh in just shy of 185lbs. I was once as high as 235lbs, but wasn't a runner until I had dropped down to about 210lbs... and I've run as light as 168lbs.

There's no question in my mind which was easier on my body, that extra weight really puts a damper on how far you can go without risking injury. Currently working on getting back to the low 170's, that's where I felt best. And fastest. :)

jono


Down to just under 200 pounds and I feel very strong. Sporadic running at best with year end at work and lousy weather but have to be in Vancouver last weekend for a Sunday meeting. My running buddy suggests I come out early and we run around UBC and then go for dinner. Start at sea level, a nice uphill, some rolling trails, 4 degrees and light rain and I am feeling good. At 9 K we are back at the car but decide to push go further and he says we should finish strong so for a kilometer I put my head down and gun it. Fastest I have been since May and look around and my friend is walking in after he was unable to keep up to me. I could have gone on.

The "power" from the weights and the intervals on the spinner bike and elliptical have made my running so much better than when I was "just" running. Cannot go out for the hour and a half runs but able to get in 45 minutes of weights every other day. I may be a freak and not a good example but whatever I am doing is working. It is really nice to once again be relatively fast compared to my peers. Plus my mind and body love that I can mix things up - tomorrow is a run because of a small window of good weather rather than the planned bike and for me, that seems to be working best.


I do not mind biking but if I ever had the time and motivation to get swimming lessons, I may actually have to try the dark side. Three concussions from biking is another wee concern.

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jamix » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:56 pm

jonovision_man wrote:
Dstew wrote:My troubles start when I essentially dropped most of the "cross training" and follow a conventional sort of approach on a year round basis. My theory is that although I felt like a real runner and could compete somewhat, I lost sight of the fact that at 5'11" 185 - 210 pounds, I really needed time off from pounding the pavement and some time to rebuild strength and balance.


Hey you're one of "us"! :lol:

I'm about 6'0" and right now weigh in just shy of 185lbs. I was once as high as 235lbs, but wasn't a runner until I had dropped down to about 210lbs... and I've run as light as 168lbs.

There's no question in my mind which was easier on my body, that extra weight really puts a damper on how far you can go without risking injury. Currently working on getting back to the low 170's, that's where I felt best. And fastest. :)

jono


I don't suppose either of you two have run good races (and trained well for those races) while being around that 210lbs level? How do these performances compare to when you were 168/185 lbs and ran a good race while being similarly conditioned???
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jonovision_man » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:25 pm

jamix wrote:
jonovision_man wrote:
Dstew wrote:My troubles start when I essentially dropped most of the "cross training" and follow a conventional sort of approach on a year round basis. My theory is that although I felt like a real runner and could compete somewhat, I lost sight of the fact that at 5'11" 185 - 210 pounds, I really needed time off from pounding the pavement and some time to rebuild strength and balance.


Hey you're one of "us"! :lol:

I'm about 6'0" and right now weigh in just shy of 185lbs. I was once as high as 235lbs, but wasn't a runner until I had dropped down to about 210lbs... and I've run as light as 168lbs.

There's no question in my mind which was easier on my body, that extra weight really puts a damper on how far you can go without risking injury. Currently working on getting back to the low 170's, that's where I felt best. And fastest. :)

jono


I don't suppose either of you two have run good races (and trained well for those races) while being around that 210lbs level? How do these performances compare to when you were 168/185 lbs and ran a good race while being similarly conditioned???


I haven't been >190 in a lonnnng time... but between the 180s and 170/160s in general I've found the old "2 seconds per mile per pound" to be pretty close. I don't think any of my pbs are from >180.

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jamix » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:54 am

jonovision_man wrote:
jamix wrote:
jonovision_man wrote:
Dstew wrote:My troubles start when I essentially dropped most of the "cross training" and follow a conventional sort of approach on a year round basis. My theory is that although I felt like a real runner and could compete somewhat, I lost sight of the fact that at 5'11" 185 - 210 pounds, I really needed time off from pounding the pavement and some time to rebuild strength and balance.


Hey you're one of "us"! :lol:

I'm about 6'0" and right now weigh in just shy of 185lbs. I was once as high as 235lbs, but wasn't a runner until I had dropped down to about 210lbs... and I've run as light as 168lbs.

There's no question in my mind which was easier on my body, that extra weight really puts a damper on how far you can go without risking injury. Currently working on getting back to the low 170's, that's where I felt best. And fastest. :)

jono


I don't suppose either of you two have run good races (and trained well for those races) while being around that 210lbs level? How do these performances compare to when you were 168/185 lbs and ran a good race while being similarly conditioned???


I haven't been >190 in a lonnnng time... but between the 180s and 170/160s in general I've found the old "2 seconds per mile per pound" to be pretty close. I don't think any of my pbs are from >180.

jono


Thanks Jono; As someone whose experienced cycling weight loss / regain, I'm always interested to hear the opinions of others who had similar experiences.

In the past, I've found that as so long as I'm dedicated and work hard, I could improve my running from earlier in the season, despite puting on up to 25 lbs. I have yet to pull it off this year though, and the 18 lbs I've put on thus far since July has proven detrimental (though not as much as the 2 second rule u site).
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

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Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby Dstew » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:29 am

jamix wrote:
I don't suppose either of you two have run good races (and trained well for those races) while being around that 210lbs level? How do these performances compare to when you were 168/185 lbs and ran a good race while being similarly conditioned???


The short answer is no. At around the 210 level my focus has to be on the gym. Weights to be able to support the weight and then elliptical and spinner, etc to lose the weight. At around 200 pounds I have been able to train well and put in the miles. This in turn seems to translate into very good endurance but it is if the weight is a damper on my top end speed during a race. To be specific, when I am at 180 -190 compared to 200 pounds, my 800 meter intervals are almost the same but during a race, at the lower weight I can run at a pace predicted by those a fore mentioned intervals but cannot do the same at the higher weight. In my most recent marathon, had managed to get down to 190 during the training and was on track for a 3:40 marathon or better but over did it, gained almost ten pounds back. Never once during the race did I feel my lungs or even my heart were an issue but the muscles were a completely different matter. The first sign was that I would push the accelerator and earlier in the race, the legs would respond as commanded and as the race went on, no matter how hard I pushed it was not going to happen. And then there was the fatigue and soreness. Then very strangely, in the last mile or so, all of the training kicked in and my fastest mile was my last one and by a wide margin. And with that, I was only about 8 minutes slower because of the weight in my opinion.

Having said that, I was in a small 5 K race and completely dismissed a guy who looked like a body builder. Huge upper body and had to be over 200 pounds and shorter than I was but it was pure muscle. He won that 5 K race. I have also seen a number of very good trail racers who are larger and pure muscle do well. It seems that the longer the race, the more the muscle bulk acts as a central governor.

For me, I am now willing to be fit and strong and a slower marathoner as I am not sure I have the motivation or blind dedication and focus to train for a Boston Qualifying time.

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jamix
Bill Crothers
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Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 pm

Re: 3plus2 (aka FIRST, Furman, etc)

Postby jamix » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:34 pm

Dstew wrote:
jamix wrote:
I don't suppose either of you two have run good races (and trained well for those races) while being around that 210lbs level? How do these performances compare to when you were 168/185 lbs and ran a good race while being similarly conditioned???


The short answer is no. At around the 210 level my focus has to be on the gym. Weights to be able to support the weight and then elliptical and spinner, etc to lose the weight. At around 200 pounds I have been able to train well and put in the miles. This in turn seems to translate into very good endurance but it is if the weight is a damper on my top end speed during a race. To be specific, when I am at 180 -190 compared to 200 pounds, my 800 meter intervals are almost the same but during a race, at the lower weight I can run at a pace predicted by those a fore mentioned intervals but cannot do the same at the higher weight. In my most recent marathon, had managed to get down to 190 during the training and was on track for a 3:40 marathon or better but over did it, gained almost ten pounds back. Never once during the race did I feel my lungs or even my heart were an issue but the muscles were a completely different matter. The first sign was that I would push the accelerator and earlier in the race, the legs would respond as commanded and as the race went on, no matter how hard I pushed it was not going to happen. And then there was the fatigue and soreness. Then very strangely, in the last mile or so, all of the training kicked in and my fastest mile was my last one and by a wide margin. And with that, I was only about 8 minutes slower because of the weight in my opinion.

Having said that, I was in a small 5 K race and completely dismissed a guy who looked like a body builder. Huge upper body and had to be over 200 pounds and shorter than I was but it was pure muscle. He won that 5 K race. I have also seen a number of very good trail racers who are larger and pure muscle do well. It seems that the longer the race, the more the muscle bulk acts as a central governor.

For me, I am now willing to be fit and strong and a slower marathoner as I am not sure I have the motivation or blind dedication and focus to train for a Boston Qualifying time.


Thanks Dstew; Basically what I got from your post is that excess body weight effects longer distance endurance than shorter distance which was why your 800-meter repeats were the same, but your longer races were slower.
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)


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