Injured List

The grisly details and tales of the road back

Kristen
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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:58 pm

b_squared wrote:Let the commiserating begin!

*big sigh of empathy*

silly soleus muscles!

I treated my right foot and leg to a roller all morning. Then I went for a little 1K walk at the indoor track. Both felt somewhat good, and there has been no need for painkiller or anything like that. In the meantime, I found this wonderful little video treat from QCM last year. Of course, watching this makes me want to run. But today I'm sticking to a contraption called a recumbent bike, hitting the core hard, and doing some gentle yoga.

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Re: Injured List

Postby b_squared » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:10 pm

Kristen wrote:silly soleus muscles!

I treated my right foot and leg to a roller all morning. Then I went for a little 1K walk at the indoor track. Both felt somewhat good, and there has been no need for painkiller or anything like that.


it'll be the tennis ball for me tonight.

the somewhat frustrating part of my injury is that it seems only running or hopping on one foot causes pain. no pain when walking or other normal activities, I can stretch no problem, do calf strength/resistance exercises OK. Even before I tried to run last night it passed the one foot hopping test; more time to heal I guess.

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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:14 pm

b_squared wrote:the somewhat frustrating part of my injury is that it seems only running or hopping on one foot causes pain. no pain when walking or other normal activities, I can stretch no problem, do calf strength/resistance exercises OK. Even before I tried to run last night it passed the one foot hopping test; more time to heal I guess.

It hurts me a little to walk (and do stairs and use the elliptical), but I hear you with the stretching. I did all of the Pfitzinger stretches for runners yesterday (hams, glutes, piriformis, calves, hip flexors) and it was OK (not great, but OK). My problem seems to be when I twist my ankle... I can point and flex my toes fairly OK. There's some tightness with that motion, but it's not bad. But when I rotate my ankle or just "shake" my leg, inc. my calf? OUCH!

Oh, and that's just the one leg. I won't detail the issues with the other one. Lol!

Edit: what's the hopping on one foot thing all about? Is that something your physiotherapist recommended?

Edit 2: no, it actually does hurt when I point and flex... it hurts my soleus (right side) when I point and the top of my ankle (not the inside where it also hurts) when I flex. But when I rotate my ankle, my ankle hurts more on the inside and hurts my calf as well. And it hurts more to rotate my ankle CW than it does CCW. Oh, and I'm pretty sure it's the soleus (99%).

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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:44 pm

Just ran into a buddy at work who works in athletic therapy, and learned a couple of things about the soleus:

1. You can't strengthen this muscle by doing standing calf raises; you need to do the seated calf raises.
2. Resistance band exercises will work: point, flex, rotate. (good thing, 'cause I already did this last evening)

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Re: Injured List

Postby b_squared » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:30 pm

Kristen wrote:Edit: what's the hopping on one foot thing all about? Is that something your physiotherapist recommended?


It was observation that I came up with on my own, playing driveway basketball I think: it hurt when I jumped and didn't hurt after a few days rest. But then I also saw it here at this website as a test before returning to training.

Kristen wrote:You can't strengthen this muscle by doing standing calf raises; you need to do the seated calf raises.

Thanks, i do those and also bent knee calf raise targets the soleus a bit more.

8th day of no running here. :wall:

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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:53 pm

b_squared wrote:It was observation that I came up with on my own, playing driveway basketball I think: it hurt when I jumped and didn't hurt after a few days rest. But then I also saw it here at this website as a test before returning to training.

Thanks for the link. You know what? I am so scr3wed. I can't even walk without pain... but jump? Lol! This is going to be a long process...

8th day of no running here.

2nd day here... I might be curled up in fetal position in some dark corner of some dark room by day 8.

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Re: Injured List

Postby fe.RMT » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:27 pm

There isn't a lot of benefit to strengthening the triceps surae (the combination of gastrocnemius and soleus) as it's function is postural/endurance related and as such is not usually in need of strengthening (unless there is another underlying pathology). General rule of thumb for rehabilitation (with the only exception being atrophy) is to 'stretch' before you strengthen.
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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:55 pm

fe.sweetpea wrote:There isn't a lot of benefit to strengthening the triceps surae (the combination of gastrocnemius and soleus) as it's function is postural/endurance related and as such is not usually in need of strengthening (unless there is another underlying pathology). General rule of thumb for rehabilitation (with the only exception being atrophy) is to 'stretch' before you strengthen.

Thanks, this is good to know...

Does anyone know if issues with either left ITB or right iliopsoas might have something to do with a sore right ankle and soleus? These are all my sore spots, and I'm trying to figure out if they're related...

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Re: Injured List

Postby b_squared » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:26 pm

fe.sweetpea wrote:There isn't a lot of benefit to strengthening the triceps surae (the combination of gastrocnemius and soleus) as it's function is postural/endurance related and as such is not usually in need of strengthening (unless there is another underlying pathology). General rule of thumb for rehabilitation (with the only exception being atrophy) is to 'stretch' before you strengthen.


I was wondering about this in a more general sense: if the 4500 strikes per foot in a typical 10km (for me) doesn't activate the muscles and cause adaptation and strengthing while healthy, I'm not sure what will. However, in a rehab situation after the muscle is damaged, wouldn't a muscle specific resistance exercise be of benefit to regain strength before engaging in the full training activity? Just wondering.

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Re: Injured List

Postby fe.RMT » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:32 am

b_squared wrote:
fe.sweetpea wrote:There isn't a lot of benefit to strengthening the triceps surae (the combination of gastrocnemius and soleus) as it's function is postural/endurance related and as such is not usually in need of strengthening (unless there is another underlying pathology). General rule of thumb for rehabilitation (with the only exception being atrophy) is to 'stretch' before you strengthen.


I was wondering about this in a more general sense: if the 4500 strikes per foot in a typical 10km (for me) doesn't activate the muscles and cause adaptation and strengthing while healthy, I'm not sure what will. However, in a rehab situation after the muscle is damaged, wouldn't a muscle specific resistance exercise be of benefit to regain strength before engaging in the full training activity? Just wondering.


It would depend on a few things. It would depend on what the strength difference was between both sides for instance and the type of the injury. If the person was immobile for a a period of time (say on crutches) then maybe strength might be an issue, but if the person is ambulatory the muscle is unlikely to suffer any great strength loss. Bearing in mind I have no research ready at hand, I would venture to say that in lower body injury cases, triceps surae strength is not likely a culprit in most of them. It might be a compensatory issue, as mentioned above for someone non weight-bearing for a period of time.
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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:17 pm

b_squared wrote:I was wondering about this in a more general sense: if the 4500 strikes per foot in a typical 10km (for me) doesn't activate the muscles and cause adaptation and strengthing while healthy, I'm not sure what will. However, in a rehab situation after the muscle is damaged, wouldn't a muscle specific resistance exercise be of benefit to regain strength before engaging in the full training activity? Just wondering.

Have you tried any grass running? Today I knew I had to go as low impact as possible, hoping to get over 5K with none of that acute pain in my calf and mild sprain-like pain in my ankle. And I managed to get a very gentle 10K done, still with a lot of tightness -- but no pain. I attribute this to the fact that a significant portion of the run was on grass. Had I done the entire run on a combination of asphalt and concrete, I'm sure my legs wouldn't have held up as well.

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Re: Injured List

Postby b_squared » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:48 pm

And on the 14th day, I ran.

A very easy 4km in the books, with no discomfort whatsoever. Phew. Chose the controlled environment of the gym TM to control pace, surface, and in case I needed to bail, but I didn't.
So my goal for the rest of this week will be 3 more similar runs, with a max weekly total of 20k and then I'll go from there.

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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:48 pm

b_squared wrote:And on the 14th day, I ran.


This is very good news. Glad to hear it.

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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:56 pm

My calf and I are back over here again. I thought "we" (meaning my calf and I) were getting along and had some kind of an understanding, but apparently not. So we need a different approach. And while I'm busy trying to figure this out, my calf continues to taunt me and act in an annoyingly stubborn manner. It is no help whatsoever. No little hints. No suggestions. No advice. Stubborn calf. *sigh*

In any event, one thing is clear now: I will not be able to run a half on May 2nd. And a second potential reality is setting in: I'll be lucky to run the Manitoba Marathon on June 20th.

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Re: Injured List

Postby KBO » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:18 am

From very recent personal experience and a whole lot of hindsight I learned the following:

- Running injured is a bad idea. Running on one injury can lead to numerous other injuries making it far more complicated to fix in the end.
- Seeking professional help from physiotherapists, podiatrists, massage therapists, doctors etc can be overwhelming and at times confusing but it is a good process to go through.
- Did I mention running injured is a bad idea?
- Sometimes you have to stop running to heal.
- Sometimes you have to cancel all race plans for a few months to get back on your feet. This means selling bibs or deferring entries to the next year. This can be a freeing process and lessen the temptation to race despite being injured.
- All the time you normally spend running can really be used for a great many other, very satisfying things.
- Other non-weight bearing sports may fill the void temporarily but it is ok to not love them like you love running. Just consider it temporary.
- When you do get to run again it's a great feeling but expect the occasional setback.

I injured my foot last August. I ran Chicago injured. In doing so I totally messed up my foot worse and created the disaster area know as my calf. I continued to run on it but finally had to raise the white flag of surrender in February. I stopped running for six weeks and had to go through tests in case I had given myself a stress fracture while running on that injury. I had to sell bibs, defer races and simply not participate in my favourite event of the year (Eco Adventure)...devastating yes but I'm still alive and kicking.

I am just getting back to running shorter distances now. Patience is a virtue these days but if I kept doing what I was doing I could have messed myself up in a more permanent fashion.

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Re: Injured List

Postby trixiee » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:29 am

Wiser words have never been spoken, KBO.

Thanks for posting them.
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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:48 am

Thanks, Karen... the hardest part is that running is "my thing" and my outlet and I am going through a really hard time with this divorce. In fact, running it is part of the reason everything fell apart, so if I am going to lose my husband and best friend it might as well have been worth it. But I can't run. And you're right: I shouldn't. It's just really hard. Not to mention I was in the throes of marathon mania... and running a lot the past 5 months. I feel like I'm having a hard enough time coming off of that perpetual high.

Eta: I apologize for the "poor me" rant. Just a lot to deal with at once. I've got a few other physical outlets (swimming, cycling, stretching, core, select strength training) I can pursue. It will be fine eventually.

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Re: Injured List

Postby KBO » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:23 am

Kristen wrote:Thanks, Karen... the hardest part is that running is "my thing" and my outlet and I am going through a really hard time with this divorce. In fact, running it is part of the reason everything fell apart, so if I am going to lose my husband and best friend it might as well have been worth it. But I can't run. And you're right: I shouldn't. It's just really hard. Not to mention I was in the throes of marathon mania... and running a lot the past 5 months. I feel like I'm having a hard enough time coming off of that perpetual high.

Eta: I apologize for the "poor me" rant. Just a lot to deal with at once. I've got a few other physical outlets (swimming, cycling, stretching, core, select strength training) I can pursue. It will be fine eventually.


Running is my outlet as well. Isn't it for most of us on here? It was also much of my social life. Granted I'm not going through the other stuff that you are but I get the 'outlet' and 'my thing' comment. I was running 5 days a week and always training for the next race. It all came to a screeching halt. All this shall pass. It sucks right now. But you have to make smart decisions for yourself.

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Re: Injured List

Postby Jwolf » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:24 am

It seem that you'll probably have to find another outlet. Most of us have been there at one point. Some of us for longer than others.
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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:38 am

KBO wrote:Running is my outlet as well. Isn't it for most of us on here? It was also much of my social life. Granted I'm not going through the other stuff that you are but I get the 'outlet' and 'my thing' comment. I was running 5 days a week and always training for the next race. It all came to a screeching halt. All this shall pass. It sucks right now. But you have to make smart decisions for yourself.

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't for others. I meant that it was my personal outlet as I go through my divorce. Add to this that running was a large part of why I'm getting divorced. So basically I'm losing my "two loves" at once.

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Re: Injured List

Postby KBO » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am

Kristen wrote:
KBO wrote:Running is my outlet as well. Isn't it for most of us on here? It was also much of my social life. Granted I'm not going through the other stuff that you are but I get the 'outlet' and 'my thing' comment. I was running 5 days a week and always training for the next race. It all came to a screeching halt. All this shall pass. It sucks right now. But you have to make smart decisions for yourself.

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't for others. I meant that it was my personal outlet as I go through my divorce. Add to this that running was a large part of why I'm getting divorced. So basically I'm losing my "two loves" at once.


I know you meant that. No worries. You aren't losing running. You are healing yourself.

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Re: Injured List

Postby Pat Menzies » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:04 am

I grew up on a farm and when a calf was limping we would lock it in the barn for a week or so. That's what you should do with your calf. They will bawl and get depressed but they can run without limping when they get back out.
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Re: Injured List

Postby KBO » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:14 am

Pat Menzies wrote:I grew up on a farm and when a calf was limping we would lock it in the barn for a week or so. That's what you should do with your calf. They will bawl and get depressed but they can run without limping when they get back out.


Perfect.

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Re: Injured List

Postby VeloCarrie » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:25 am

Pat Menzies wrote:I grew up on a farm and when a calf was limping we would lock it in the barn for a week or so. That's what you should do with your calf. They will bawl and get depressed but they can run without limping when they get back out.

+1
When one of my mum's horses are limping, they aren't ridden or shown at all, the linament and wraps get brought out and the vet gets called if it lasts more than a week ($$$$). She loves showing and riding her horses more than anything and a lame horse takes her away from her one true love for a long time. She'll do anything to get back to it and that means resting and healing the horse until it is well again. Take a lesson from a deaf, 69 year old, 4'9'' active horse woman with two artificial hips with a house full of horse trophies and first place ribbons.
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Re: Injured List

Postby Kristen » Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:14 am

Okay, I needed a little time to digest these helpful thoughts... I appreciate the ideas and concern. Your mother sounds remarkable, TCC, and I see where you get it from! :wink:

I've accepted that I'm not 100%, so maybe I'll stop monopolizing the injured thread. :lol:


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