Hold off on that ice?

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purdy65
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Hold off on that ice?

Postby purdy65 » Tue May 20, 2014 8:04 am

It's not the size of the dog in the fight...it's the size of the fight in the dog! 11K Marker post - 2010 ATB.

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mas_runner
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Re: Hold off on that ice?

Postby mas_runner » Tue May 20, 2014 8:08 am

It is another one of those things that if you do it and it works for you then there is probably no harm to keep doing it.

It works for me, I think the key is to ice for 10 mins and then let the area warm up again and then repeat with the ice pack. Helps me no end when I am sore. YMMV.
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Jwolf
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Re: Hold off on that ice?

Postby Jwolf » Tue May 20, 2014 10:30 am

It may help the soreness, but the real question is does it help the actual recovery? Or hinder it?

My doctor once told me that the real purpose of ice is actually the same as heat-- to get the blood moving TO the injured site to stimulate healing. The ice for a short time (no more than 5 minutes) temporarily restricts blood flow but then encourages more blood flow to return to the site once you finish icing. Icing too long to the point of numbness would be counter-productive although might make it feel better at the time.
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mas_runner
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Re: Hold off on that ice?

Postby mas_runner » Tue May 20, 2014 10:39 am

Jwolf wrote:It may help the soreness, but the real question is does it help the actual recovery? Or hinder it?

My doctor once told me that the real purpose of ice is actually the same as heat-- to get the blood moving TO the injured site to stimulate healing. The ice for a short time (no more than 5 minutes) temporarily restricts blood flow but then encourages more blood flow to return to the site once you finish icing. Icing too long to the point of numbness would be counter-productive although might make it feel better at the time.


That's my thinking too. For an ice bath, the most important step is when the legs warm up slowly after coming out of the bath, so it is important not to jump in the shower straight away.

In my post I meant to say that ice helps me recover too, but that may be psychology at work. I definitely find that I have way less stiffness in the legs if I do the ice bath than if I didn't. That's just me though.
PBs
5th Sep 2015 - Run Ottawa free 5km - 21:05
21st Jun 2015 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 10km - 45:45
16th Jun 2013 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 15km - 1:11:44
16th Apr 2016 - MEC 10 miler - 1:20:21
12th Apr 2015 - EY R4R Half Marathon - 1:41:15
26th May 2013 - Ottawa Marathon - 3:43:51

2017 races - coming up
7th May - Defi Entreprise 10km
28th May - Ottawa Half Marathon
17th Sep - Army Run Half Marathon

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Jwolf
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Re: Hold off on that ice?

Postby Jwolf » Tue May 20, 2014 11:08 am

I've never done an actual ice bath to stave off general soreness. I've only iced locally when something is actually injured.

There is also the theory that ice baths (for general soreness) may help you feel better but they hinder the training adaptation. That is, you need to feel the soreness for the muscles to be adapting and improving. I'm not sure how much truth there is to that.
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Jwolf
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Re: Hold off on that ice?

Postby Jwolf » Tue May 20, 2014 7:29 pm

Here's an article from Alex Hutchinson on the possible negative effect of ice baths that I was describing above.

http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-prev ... r-training

The theory is basically:

.... recovery techniques like ice baths may help you feel better tomorrow, but make you less fit in the long run if they get rid of the inflammation that signals your body to adapt and get stronger after training.


But there is no clear evidence either way.
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La
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Re: Hold off on that ice?

Postby La » Wed May 21, 2014 7:29 am

I guess it's based on the premise that "pain is bad." So when it's said that such-and-such treatment "aids in recovery" it likely means that it will relieve the short-term pain of exertion, but perhaps in doing so it hampers training adaptations.

Being able to distinguish between "injury pain" and "exertion pain" is important.
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