Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby FishPants » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:08 pm

Mostly successful day. Two accidents in the morning, he asked for a pull-up. I told him a pull-up is like underwear, but he was being stubborn and cranky and pooped in the pull-up.

Underpants again, and two more stickers for his pirate hat and two more marshmallows. We are making a huge deal and clapping and cheering every time.

Looks like I will be doing lots of laundry! Or buying more size 2 underpants...

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Kristi » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:29 pm

We are potty training here too and it's a lot of fun! Alex is a joker so I'll ask him where he goes pee and he'll yell "in the TOILET". Then proceed to walk around the house saying "no pee on the couch, no pee on the floor, no pee on the stairs, no pee on mommy, no pee on Timmy, etc". He thinks that he is very funny :)

And yes, it is normal to be that proud. Wait until he poops on his own!

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby IronColl » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:20 pm

FishPants wrote:Mostly successful day. Two accidents in the morning, he asked for a pull-up. I told him a pull-up is like underwear, but he was being stubborn and cranky and pooped in the pull-up.


Because John has been wearing pull-ups without having potty training enforced, he isn't going to make the connection that (now) they are "like underwear". I say toss them, and stock up on cars underwear and laundry soap. I know, funny advice considering the phase that we went through with Cait, but it was only a week and it did stop.
Last edited by IronColl on Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby FishPants » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:26 pm

IronColl wrote:
FishPants wrote:Mostly successful day. Two accidents in the morning, he asked for a pull-up. I told him a pull-up is like underwear, but he was being stubborn and cranky and pooped in the pull-up.


If John has been wearing pull-ups without having potty training enforced, then he isn't going to make the connection that they are "like underwear". I say toss them, and stock up on cars underwear and laundry soap.


And wine? Ah, crap... (no pun intended)

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby IronColl » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:28 pm

D'oh. You caught me in my edit!

We only used one with Cait because she was using them like a diaper and not really trying.
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby FishPants » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:34 pm

Yeah, that was the problem today, but he was also being super crabby and the pullup won since I hate arguing with my (almost) 3 year old. He was great when we had him in underpants.

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby toobusy » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:25 am

Kristi wrote:We are potty training here too and it's a lot of fun! Alex is a joker so I'll ask him where he goes pee and he'll yell "in the TOILET". Then proceed to walk around the house saying "no pee on the couch, no pee on the floor, no pee on the stairs, no pee on mommy, no pee on Timmy, etc". He thinks that he is very funny :)

And yes, it is normal to be that proud. Wait until he poops on his own!


It does explain some of the names he was calling me :P

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby toobusy » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:28 am

FishPants wrote:Yeah, that was the problem today, but he was also being super crabby and the pullup won since I hate arguing with my (almost) 3 year old. He was great when we had him in underpants.


Sometimes they have a much harder time with the poo in the toilet thing too - my ex-neighbor girl would seriously constipate herself rather then not use a diaper.

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Kristi » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:32 am

toobusy wrote:
Kristi wrote:We are potty training here too and it's a lot of fun! Alex is a joker so I'll ask him where he goes pee and he'll yell "in the TOILET". Then proceed to walk around the house saying "no pee on the couch, no pee on the floor, no pee on the stairs, no pee on mommy, no pee on Timmy, etc". He thinks that he is very funny :)

And yes, it is normal to be that proud. Wait until he poops on his own!


It does explain some of the names he was calling me :P


Like you've never been called "poo poo" before ;) It's more embarassing when he calls strangers poopy - then it gets embarassing.

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby IronColl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:17 am

FishPants wrote:Yeah, that was the problem today, but he was also being super crabby and the pullup won since I hate arguing with my (almost) 3 year old. He was great when we had him in underpants.


I'm fairly confident that no one likes to argue with their children. I wish you patience if John tries it today.
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby FishPants » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:01 am

IronColl wrote:
FishPants wrote:Yeah, that was the problem today, but he was also being super crabby and the pullup won since I hate arguing with my (almost) 3 year old. He was great when we had him in underpants.


I'm fairly confident that no one likes to argue with their children. I wish you patience if John tries it today.


I think one of my worst moments was realizing you cannot reason with a 2 year old. I learn to pick my battles. Sometimes, though, I have to stand my ground over the DUMBEST things because John chooses to argue with them. And Damon's method of dealing with something he is upset about (like if I take something away) is to scream at the top of his lungs. I look forward to those tantrums in public...

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Irongirl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:07 am

FishPants wrote:
IronColl wrote:
FishPants wrote:Yeah, that was the problem today, but he was also being super crabby and the pullup won since I hate arguing with my (almost) 3 year old. He was great when we had him in underpants.


I'm fairly confident that no one likes to argue with their children. I wish you patience if John tries it today.


I think one of my worst moments was realizing you cannot reason with a 2 year old. I learn to pick my battles. Sometimes, though, I have to stand my ground over the DUMBEST things because John chooses to argue with them. And Damon's method of dealing with something he is upset about (like if I take something away) is to scream at the top of his lungs. I look forward to those tantrums in public...


here's my unsolicited advice on the power struggles (taken from my favourite book "Honey I Shrunk the Kids") - when you're in a power struggle with a kid, "drop the rope" - as in get yourself out of the struggle....if that means "letting him win", then, so be it. I don't think a 3 year old is going to walk around saying "I beat mommy, I beat mommy." My preferred approach is to change things up.....so, if the struggle is over getting clothes on, instead of insisting on something, I'll propose a compromise that is different than already suggested, or, I'll just totally change the subject and approach things from a different angle.

The other thing that I do when I'm noticing a ton of power struggles is start giving Delilah more responsibility. I notice that when she doesn't feel like she's in charge of things, she finds things to be in charge of. Right now, she pours the milk before supper - EVERY day. Even if we're in a rush, and she makes a mess, it still really helps that she has "a job."

I've recently had the lying on the mall floor banging her legs on the ground tantrum because she didn't get her way. I walked away and sat on a bench and told her when she was ready to talk about things, we could try to find a solution. I honestly don't know or care who was looking at me walking away from a screaming child.
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby IronColl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:18 am

Irongirl wrote:here's my unsolicited advice on the power struggles (taken from my favourite book "Honey I Shrunk the Kids") - when you're in a power struggle with a kid, "drop the rope" - as in get yourself out of the struggle....if that means "letting him win", then, so be it. I don't think a 3 year old is going to walk around saying "I beat mommy, I beat mommy." My preferred approach is to change things up.....so, if the struggle is over getting clothes on, instead of insisting on something, I'll propose a compromise that is different than already suggested, or, I'll just totally change the subject and approach things from a different angle.



In this book do they talk about the consequences of always letting your kids win? They may not be saying "I beat mommy" but they are learning how they can win and they will try it again. They don't know that they have "won" something small, all they know is they behaved a certain way and got what they wanted so that is the pattern is reinforced.
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Irongirl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:20 am

IronColl wrote:
Irongirl wrote:here's my unsolicited advice on the power struggles (taken from my favourite book "Honey I Shrunk the Kids") - when you're in a power struggle with a kid, "drop the rope" - as in get yourself out of the struggle....if that means "letting him win", then, so be it. I don't think a 3 year old is going to walk around saying "I beat mommy, I beat mommy." My preferred approach is to change things up.....so, if the struggle is over getting clothes on, instead of insisting on something, I'll propose a compromise that is different than already suggested, or, I'll just totally change the subject and approach things from a different angle.



In this book do they talk about the consequences of always letting your kids win? They may not be saying "I beat mommy" but they are learning how they can win and they will try it again. They don't know that they have "won" something small, all they know is they behaved a certain way and got what they wanted so that is the pattern is reinforced.


yeah, I knew someone would ask that.

I don't think I explained it right. I'm not suggesting that you always let your kid win, because, that would absolutely be my question/reaction as well.

stay tuned....looking for a better description....
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby FishPants » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:21 am

I try to change things up when we are in a power struggle. I will ask a different way, or come up with an alternative.

And sometimes my patience is exhausted, and I snap, and then John says "Mommy yelled". Then I say "Yes, Mommy was very frustrated" and we move on.

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby IronColl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:23 am

Irongirl wrote:I've recently had the lying on the mall floor banging her legs on the ground tantrum because she didn't get her way. I walked away and sat on a bench and told her when she was ready to talk about things, we could try to find a solution. I honestly don't know or care who was looking at me walking away from a screaming child.


Honestly, I bet a lot of parents were thinking that you were doing the right thing.
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Irongirl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:24 am

here's maybe a better blog post about it...

http://www.skillfulparenting.ca/?p=151

by "dropping the rope" I find that when I look back at it, there's many times that it might look (to an outsider) like Delilah has "won" but, the dynamic for ME didn't feel like that....
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Irongirl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:26 am

IronColl wrote:
Irongirl wrote:I've recently had the lying on the mall floor banging her legs on the ground tantrum because she didn't get her way. I walked away and sat on a bench and told her when she was ready to talk about things, we could try to find a solution. I honestly don't know or care who was looking at me walking away from a screaming child.


Honestly, I bet a lot of parents were thinking that you were doing the right thing.


thanks - and, I guess that's the good example of "drop the rope" whereas the one above wasn't as good.

There's times though that I've been fighting with Delilah and I stop for a second and think "really? Does it really matter if she puts those shoes on versus the ones that I told her to?" Nope......I needed to get myself out of the power struggle, and, my thought is often "how do I do it so that she doesn't think that she won?!" And I realize that it doesn't really matter who won, what matters is that we are done fighting.
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby IronColl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:49 am

Irongirl wrote:
IronColl wrote:
Irongirl wrote:I've recently had the lying on the mall floor banging her legs on the ground tantrum because she didn't get her way. I walked away and sat on a bench and told her when she was ready to talk about things, we could try to find a solution. I honestly don't know or care who was looking at me walking away from a screaming child.


Honestly, I bet a lot of parents were thinking that you were doing the right thing.


thanks - and, I guess that's the good example of "drop the rope" whereas the one above wasn't as good.

There's times though that I've been fighting with Delilah and I stop for a second and think "really? Does it really matter if she puts those shoes on versus the ones that I told her to?" Nope......I needed to get myself out of the power struggle, and, my thought is often "how do I do it so that she doesn't think that she won?!" And I realize that it doesn't really matter who won, what matters is that we are done fighting.


And that is a good example of when a choice is offered, and we have done that here. I have also been the parent who has dragged a screaming child off a playground because I have said it is time to go and they refused. I gave them the option to stop or be carried and the choice was made.

I am thinking of the broader power struggles where you need to go to the "because I said so". We have had power struggles here where I have flat out said that something needs to be done and there is no negotioation. Do it or get a time out. Or have something fun taken away.

The power struggle we are having with Cait is that she is doing a foot stomp when not getting her way. Rather than distract her, she gets a time out for inapproritate behavior, then we go back to addressing the initial struggle. Right now it is about getting dressed. She knows that she has to get dressed to go outside, but foot stomped anyway.
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby pts » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:20 pm

I am following the power struggle discussion and like hearing all the insights. M is a very determined little toddler and I am finding parenting her exhausting. For example, we were at a coffee shop the other day and a person with a walker was there. M wanted to play with the walker (and the person was NOT friendly so I couldn't even 'explain' to Marianne by showing it to her and telling her that this person uses it to help walk etc. which is what I like to do). Anyway, she totally flipped out, screaming tantrum (at 17mos!) to go to the walker and play with it. I couldn't leave her on the ground because she would run towards it, I couldn't leave (still had to pay for the food/drink), I couldn't distract her. I ended up holding her while she kicked and screamed.

I bawled the entire way home :oops: It was one of those days (G also walked way ahead on the sidewalk which he is allowed to do to a point in our small town and then he almost got hit by a car that was turning into an alleyway as we left the coffee shop, not my best parenting day!).
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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby FishPants » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:34 pm

I really, really like hearing other people's parenting challenges! Not because I am enjoying that other people are struggling (I have so much empathy for you guys!) but because it makes me feel not so alone. There are some days where I have been alone with the kids for 8 hours, John is not listening to ANYTHING and I just feel like crying. Knowing other parents have the same kind of days makes me feel like I am not a horrible parent, that everyone else is struggling and doing the best they can, too.

It was especially bad in August. John's late afternoon not listening was co-inciding with my my nausea and exhaustion quite nicely. All I wanted to do was curl up on the couch and think about trying not to die, and instead I would be arguing with a stubborn almost-3-year old. :roll:

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Kristi » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:47 pm

Irongirl wrote:
IronColl wrote:
Irongirl wrote:here's my unsolicited advice on the power struggles (taken from my favourite book "Honey I Shrunk the Kids") - when you're in a power struggle with a kid, "drop the rope" - as in get yourself out of the struggle....if that means "letting him win", then, so be it. I don't think a 3 year old is going to walk around saying "I beat mommy, I beat mommy." My preferred approach is to change things up.....so, if the struggle is over getting clothes on, instead of insisting on something, I'll propose a compromise that is different than already suggested, or, I'll just totally change the subject and approach things from a different angle.



In this book do they talk about the consequences of always letting your kids win? They may not be saying "I beat mommy" but they are learning how they can win and they will try it again. They don't know that they have "won" something small, all they know is they behaved a certain way and got what they wanted so that is the pattern is reinforced.


yeah, I knew someone would ask that.

I don't think I explained it right. I'm not suggesting that you always let your kid win, because, that would absolutely be my question/reaction as well.

stay tuned....looking for a better description....


I've read the book and it had some good insight about power struggles - which is one of my huge downfalls. It's not so much about letting the child win, but about removing the power struggle from the situation. Pretty much what FP does with coming up with an alternative. I liked the book because it dealt more with the causes for the behaviour, which is helpful in dealing with problems before they happen. I don't follow the book's philosophy's as I think that every situation requires something different, but it made me think about a few things.

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby FishPants » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:52 pm

Just to be more clear, here is an example of an alternative, condensed (the actual argument probably went on much longer):
Me: John, it is time for bed
John: No!
Me: Do you want to walk up the stairs, or have a piggy-back?
John: No walk! No piggy back!
Me: Do you want to go upside down up the stairs?
John: Upside down please!

The goal, John in bed, is accomplished. I don't care that he gets there upside down.

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Kristi » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:00 pm

FishPants wrote:Just to be more clear, here is an example of an alternative, condensed (the actual argument probably went on much longer):
Me: John, it is time for bed
John: No!
Me: Do you want to walk up the stairs, or have a piggy-back?
John: No walk! No piggy back!
Me: Do you want to go upside down up the stairs?
John: Upside down please!

The goal, John in bed, is accomplished. I don't care that he gets there upside down.


That's exactly what I meant. You took the argument away from walking up the stairs or not - which could have gone on forever, to a happy solution for everyone. I'll have to remember that! Sometimes I'll do it with hide and seek - I'll play for a few minutes then hide in the bed so Timmy has to find me there. It's not the most direct route, but it gets him there.

It's funny, because Alex responds completely differently to most things. Timmy never responded to time outs - he just laughed and ran away (unless I held him) so we've had to be more creative with discipline. If I tell Alex to sit in time out, he actually does it! This was revolutionary to me and was quite the surprise the first time that I noticed him waiting for me to tell him to go.

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Re: Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

Postby Irongirl » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:18 pm

Kristi wrote:
FishPants wrote:Just to be more clear, here is an example of an alternative, condensed (the actual argument probably went on much longer):
Me: John, it is time for bed
John: No!
Me: Do you want to walk up the stairs, or have a piggy-back?
John: No walk! No piggy back!
Me: Do you want to go upside down up the stairs?
John: Upside down please!

The goal, John in bed, is accomplished. I don't care that he gets there upside down.


That's exactly what I meant. You took the argument away from walking up the stairs or not - which could have gone on forever, to a happy solution for everyone. I'll have to remember that! Sometimes I'll do it with hide and seek - I'll play for a few minutes then hide in the bed so Timmy has to find me there. It's not the most direct route, but it gets him there.

It's funny, because Alex responds completely differently to most things. Timmy never responded to time outs - he just laughed and ran away (unless I held him) so we've had to be more creative with discipline. If I tell Alex to sit in time out, he actually does it! This was revolutionary to me and was quite the surprise the first time that I noticed him waiting for me to tell him to go.


Goal accomplished = happy mommy and happy kid! :)

I try really hard to start with the options, and, not the goal...i.e. - How do you want to get up to your room? Walking or being carried?
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