Tour de France 2009 - Guaranteed doping free thread

[jonovision_man]

In other words...

"Screw the team, I'm out for ME"

(and he didn't even do the right thing for himself - brilliant )

jono

From my view the team screwed him and he made a choice. Like the blog post Doonst posted ... may the best win. Exciting and GO CONTADOR!

Yeah the team screwed him by sending Kloden up there to help him.

jono

[Wu wei]

Yeah the team screwed him by sending Kloden up there to help him.

jono

Kloden was done. He wasn't helping. He was sucking wheel.

I have a suspicion Kloden isn't that keen on Lance either. Check the time gaps for the Bornand stage.. Lance rode straight past Kloden for a a 9s gap at the finish line... why didn't Lance slow down for Kloden?

Riddle me this... off all of Lance's wins... and his incredibly strong teams.. how many teammates shared the podium with him in Paris? I can't recall one...?

Armstrong is a true champion too.. he doesn't talk smack against Contador because he'd ride the same way if he could. He knows how to win.. he just doesn't have the body to do it this year.

[Doonst]

Lance interview from last night. I don't take sides, but its fascinating sports.

[HCcD]

Regardless, of the winner this year, you must admit that there has been more hype in this year's Tour de France, than the past 4 with Lance in it than there was without Lance ... I can't remember any other recent Tour, where there were so many up and comers winning stages and holding the Yellow, as well as other Tour jerseys ...

To be in the Top 3 Overall, after 4 years out of the Tour, and at 37+ years, and recovering from a broken (??) collar bone only 3-4 months ago ... Lance sure has maintained a solid performance so far ...

Havin Armstrong, Contador, Kloedon, Leiphemer, who would and have been Team Captain on previous other Teams in the pst, along with the rest ofthe supporting cast, when the Tour started, was there any doubt that Team Astana would not win this year ??

Now, if they could only get Kloeden to the Podium for a sweep, that would be awesome ...

[runningman]

there was no direction from Bruyneel to go. He's the "coach". If you are on his team, you listen to him.

Bruyneel is working for Lance, not his "team". That's the problem with your logic here.

You know what Bruyneels nickname is? "Mr Clean". But that goes against the title of this thread so I'll leave it at that....

If Lance wanted to win so badly he should have lost another couple kilo's... he's way too big this year. Champions do what it takes... Lance didn't.

How could you possibly know that Lance didn't "do what it takes". Jesus, he's 37, hasn't raced in 4 years and he has a shot at a podium at the tour. Oh, and he had a broken collarbone. Call him arrogant, be jealous of his success or whatever, but to say he is someone that doesn't "do what it takes". Way off base. You are grasping in your hatred for the guy.

[ian]

If Lance wanted to win so badly he should have lost another couple kilo's... he's way too big this year. Champions do what it takes... Lance didn't.

From a recent SI article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/austin_murphy/07/02/preview/index.html):

As was his custom during his seven-year reign over cycling, he used June to hone his form to a razor's edge. He is now lean as a wraith -- reportedly two kilos (4 ½ pounds) under the weight at which he won those seven Tours.

[jonovision_man]

Yeah the team screwed him by sending Kloden up there to help him.

jono

Kloden was done. He wasn't helping. He was sucking wheel.

He was helping, quite a lot. And when Contador dropped him he kept looking back, with almost a pleading look, like "oh c'mon... please come back...". He quite obviously didn't think Kloden was done.

I have a suspicion Kloden isn't that keen on Lance either. Check the time gaps for the Bornand stage.. Lance rode straight past Kloden for a a 9s gap at the finish line... why didn't Lance slow down for Kloden?

How would that have helped at the finish line??

Kloden doesn't like Lance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsv_7o3mQno

Riddle me this... off all of Lance's wins... and his incredibly strong teams.. how many teammates shared the podium with him in Paris? I can't recall one...?

Sound like good teammates who listened to their team.

Armstrong is a true champion too.. he doesn't talk smack against Contador because he'd ride the same way if he could. He knows how to win.. he just doesn't have the body to do it this year.

Agreed.

jono

[TheBman]

- Contador is team leader of Astana well before Tour
- Lance joins team because of Johan/Trek connection, wants to compete again
- start of tour Lance says "Team leader will be determined on the road"
- Contador beats Lance in opening TT
- Lance makes up time in Stage 3 when he made the split in high winds, didn't wait for team-mates who didn't make split.
- Contador attacks on Arcalis, gaining time. Lance complains, says woe is me, my tour podium chances are less. On Garmin, same stage, Christian VdV says "Wiggins is strongest, I will ride for him"... that is what team-mates do.. unless your Lance.
- Contador attacks on Le Grand Bornand, secures yellow. Johan and Lance complain again he isn't following "the plan", wasn't supposed to attack.
- Contador shows today AGAIN why HE is the team leader of Astana.

Johan and Lance are not interested in helping Contador win the Tour as much as helping Lance get on the podium. When your Directeur Sportif is aligned against you... you do what you have to do. Good on Contador for not letting Lance's ego call the shots. When you are in the yellow you earn as much time on GC as possible. A mechanical on the final stage, a crash, etc.. could still happen on the remaining stages.. better to have time in the bank.

Lance haters will always be haters...for for a hater, MTL seems to have huge amount of insight on what LA does/thinks/knows.....
(His coments remind me of grade school where you relentlesly pick on the one you actualy have a secret crush on???? )
As far as I see AC...in my opinion....let him have this one...the score will be 7 for the good guy...2 for AC. If the the score gets remotely close to 7-6.... then call me!!!

[HCcD]

Looking forward to watching today's replay of Stage 19 this evening ... Gonna be a doozer on Saturday .....

Top 20 results from today's Stage 19 ....

Provisional top 20:


1. Mark Cavendish Team Columbia - Htc, 3:50:35
2. Thor Hushovd Cervelo Test Team, same time
3. Gerald Ciolek Team Milram at 00:00
4. Greg Van Avermaet Silence - Lotto at s.t.
5. Oscar Freire Rabobank at s.t.
6. Jérôme Pineau Quick Step at s.t.
7. Fumiyuki Beppu Skil-Shimano at s.t.
8. Nicolas Roche Ag2r La Mondiale at s.t.
9. Christophe Le Mevel Francaise Des Jeux at s.t.
10. Martijn Maaskant Garmin - Slipstream at s.t.
11. Geoffroy Lequatre Agritubel at s.t.
12. Lance Armstrong Astana at s.t.
13. Serguei Ivanov Team Katusha at 00:04
14. Bradley Wiggins Garmin - Slipstream at 00:04
15. Andy Schleck Team Saxo Bank at 00:04
16. Mikel Astarloza Euskaltel - Euskadi at 00:04
17. Tony Martin Team Columbia - Htc at 00:04
18. Vladimir Karpets Team Katusha at 00:04
19. Rinaldo Nocentini Ag2r La Mondiale at 00:04
20. Andréas KlÖden Astana at 00:04


4:52 CPelkey: Top 10 Overall, after stage 19


1. Alberto Contador Astana, 77:06:18
2. Andy Schleck Team Saxo Bank, at 4:11
3. Lance Armstrong Astana at 05:21
4. Bradley Wiggins Garmin - Slipstream at 05:36
5. Andréas KlÖden Astana at 05:38
6. Frank Schleck Team Saxo Bank at 05:59
7. Vincenzo Nibali Liquigas at 07:15
8. Christian Vande Velde Garmin - Slipstream at 10:08
9. Christophe Le Mevel Francaise Des Jeux at 12:37
10. Mikel Astarloza Euskaltel - Euskadi at 12:38

[Pat Menzies]

So Contador is winnnig despite doing everything wrong?
Enough with the "needing Kloden and dancing away from the Schleks".
He is just showing he doesn't need any help to win and that he could dance WITH the Schleks if they tried to drop him.

[waynerdog]

Perhaps we should change the title of this thread to "Lance - Love him or hate him?". Or alternatively, "How to win the TdF and still be a jackass".

I take a very different approach to watching the stages - I don't give a whit who is riding, I just sit there and stare at the bikes for three hours and drool.

[Wu wei]

Word on the street (from Levi Leiphiemer) was that Kloden and Contador had communication problems (German and Spanish.. lost in translation). Contador said go.. Kloden said no. So all you Contador haters can relax.

[HCcD]

Word on the street (from Levi Leiphiemer) was that Kloden and Contador had communication problems (German and Spanish.. lost in translation). Contador said go.. Kloden said no. So all you Contador haters can relax.

Yo, Go, No, Go, Wo Nilly ...

Still surprised that there has been on "positive drug" results this year ...

[Sir Crashalot]

I take a very different approach to watching the stages - I don't give a whit who is riding, I just sit there and stare at the bikes for three hours and drool.

I'm with you!

[HCcD]

I take a very different approach to watching the stages - I don't give a whit who is riding, I just sit there and stare at the bikes for three hours and drool.

I'm with you!

ditto ... I heart Bike P@rn ...

Kinda disappointing that only ever see the Trek and Specialized Commercials during the TdF telecasts ...

[Darth Tater]

Word on the street (from Levi Leiphiemer) was that Kloden and Contador had communication problems (German and Spanish.. lost in translation). Contador said go.. Kloden said no. So all you Contador haters can relax.

Yo, Go, No, Go, Wo Nilly ...

Still surprised that there has been on "positive drug" results this year ... :shock:

I told you before...this is the "dope free" thread.

[HCcD]

Word on the street (from Levi Leiphiemer) was that Kloden and Contador had communication problems (German and Spanish.. lost in translation). Contador said go.. Kloden said no. So all you Contador haters can relax.

Yo, Go, No, Go, Wo Nilly ...

Still surprised that there has been on "positive drug" results this year ... :shock:

I told you before...this is the "dope free" thread.

Duh, such a dope am I ... :doh:

[Doonst]

Word on the street (from Levi Leiphiemer) was that Kloden and Contador had communication problems (German and Spanish.. lost in translation). Contador said go.. Kloden said no. So all you Contador haters can relax.

Bruyneel said: "I speak perfect Spanish (he lives in Madrid and has a Spanish wife) and I told Alberto not to attack on the Colombiere."

...But after the race it emerged that had been against Astana team manager Bruyneel's orders.

The Belgian insists he told Contador to let the Schleck brothers go to allow Kloden and Armstrong a chance to finish in the general classifications' top three.

And Bruyneel says Contador's defiance could send sparks flying in the next team meeting. Seven-time Tour winner Armstrong admitted he had to "bite his tongue" on the issue.

"The attack from Contador three kilometres from the top was against my advice," added the Belgian.

"I told him not to go, he didn't need to attack, because the two Schlecks would go full gas to the finish.

"I said to him: 'You don't have to attack to win the Tour de France today'.

"So it was a pity Andreas couldn't hold on because we could have been first, second and third today in general classification, but now we are first, fourth and fifth."

Bruyneel admitted however the team had achieved their objective to put Wiggins out of the running for the yellow jersey.

[runningman]

Good job Doonst!! I'd say that puts an end to any arguments here!

I wonder what the excuse was in the first climb stage when he took off? Where was the communication difficulty there?

[Wu wei]

Good job indeed. I guess Levi was lying. Bad Levi!

So that proves... Contador thinks Johan and Lance (and even Kloden) can shove it.
He's shown their bullying days are over.
Contador makes the rules now, and backs them up with his legs and his ferocious attacks. Rumour has him on Garmin next year too...

[Pat Menzies]

I don't really care for the tactics of keeping Wiggins back and "sneaking" Kloden and Armstrong on the podium by not pressuring the Schleks.
If you don't legitimately deserve to be on the podium, too bad.
If anyone deserves to be on the podium based on their own actual effort, it is Contador and the Schleks.

[jonovision_man]

So that proves... Contador thinks Johan and Lance (and even Kloden) can shove it.
He's shown their bullying days are over.

Bullying riders into doing the right thing to win championships?

Meh, whatever, I should know better than to talk to a triathlete about team sports.

Contador makes the rules now, and backs them up with his legs and his ferocious attacks. Rumour has him on Garmin next year too...

Just as well - Astana will go back to being Vino's team. Poised for self-destruction.

jono

[Wu wei]

Bullying riders into doing the right thing to win championships?

Last I checked... Contador was 4mins up... I'd say he's doing it all right.

[jonovision_man]

Bullying riders into doing the right thing to win championships?

Last I checked... Contador was 4mins up... I'd say he's doing it all right.

Nobody is saying he doesn't have the legs (natural or otherwise). It's the brains I'm questioning.

jono

[FishHog]

seems to me that some people aren't making one important distinction between competitive cycling and the sports we most often do.

Cycling is a team sport. As great as AC is, he isn't playing for the team.