Another Rider Says Lance Armstrong Took EPO

[Jwolf]

After watching that interview it makes me wonder why they don't just allow the doping and create a level playing field that way.
They will never eradicate the problem by the looks of it.

a lot of people think that but I would hate to see that. You open the door to creating medically dangerous territory for both the current athletes and those aspiring to get there (including youth).

[HCcD]

Interesting reponse to Hamilton's allegations ...

UCI rejects Hamilton's accusations of 2001 Armstrong cover-up
By: Cycling NewsPublished: May 23, 18:30, Updated: May 23, 19:52Edition:First Edition Cycling News, Tuesday, May 24, 2011

Allegation that American tested positive for EPO at Tour de Suisse

The UCI issued a statement rejecting Tyler Hamilton’s allegation that it covered up a positive test from Lance Armstrong at the 2001 Tour de Suisse.

In an interviewed aired on CBS’ “60 Minutes” on Sunday evening, Hamilton corroborated Floyd Landis’ earlier claim that Armstrong had returned a positive test for EPO at the Swiss race.

“The International Cycling Union categorically rejects the allegations made by Mr. Tyler Hamilton, who claims that Lance Armstrong tested positive for EPO during the 2001 Tour of Switzerland and had the results covered up after one of his representatives approached the Lausanne laboratory responsible for analysing test results from the event,” read a UCI statement issued on Monday.

The sport’s governing body also declared itself to be “deeply shocked by the seriousness of the allegations”, although the accusations were already in the public domain since May of last year, when Landis confessed to doping as part of a systematic programme while riding for Armstrong’s US Postal team.

The UCI also attempted to discredit Hamilton by describing him as “a cyclist who has not hesitated to abuse the trust of all followers of cycling on several occasions in the past”, a reference to his positive test for blood doping in 2004 and subsequent denial.

Hamilton has since returned the Olympic time trial gold medal he won in 2004.

The UCI also said that it “can only confirm that Lance Armstrong has never been notified of a positive test result by any anti-doping laboratory” and reiterated that “no manipulation or cover-up has occurred in respect of its anti-doping procedures”.

A federal investigation is currently taking place in the United States centred on allegations of systematic doping at the US Postal team.

“The UCI confidently awaits the results of the inquiry being conducted by the US justice system,” the statement concluded. “It hopes that the investigations may be concluded swiftly and the truth ascertained, so that the sport of cycling may be spared further unnecessary damage.”

[Wu wei]

The UCI also said that it “can only confirm that Lance Armstrong has never been notified of a positive test result by any anti-doping laboratory”

Which is true. Lance was only notified of the "suspicious result consistent with EPO use". Which somehow quietly disappeared without a B sample test...

no manipulation or cover-up has occurred in respect of its anti-doping procedures

Also true. There was manipulation of a test, not the procedure.

Why didn't the UCI let USADA do testing at the ToC this past week? Highly suspicious given the performance of Team Radioshack:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/usada-out-uci-in-for-drug-testing-at-amgen-tour-of-california_173010

[eme]

After watching that interview it makes me wonder why they don't just allow the doping and create a level playing field that way.
They will never eradicate the problem by the looks of it.

a lot of people think that but I would hate to see that. You open the door to creating medically dangerous territory for both the current athletes and those aspiring to get there (including youth).

I have a friend who swam at the Olympic level (she swam in two Olympics). We were talking about doping durning the Vancouver Olympics (we had a big TV in our office and the games were on pretty much 24/7).

She got out of the sport mostly due to the pressure to dope. She said that she could watch and enjoy the Olympics, but could never believe that people were racing clean.

[turd ferguson]

Marg wrote:
After watching that interview it makes me wonder why they don't just allow the doping and create a level playing field that way.
They will never eradicate the problem by the looks of it.

a lot of people think that but I would hate to see that. You open the door to creating medically dangerous territory for both the current athletes and those aspiring to get there (including youth).

"Open the door". What door? That door is wide open right now. The only thing that would open is the ability to supervise athletes properly instead of forcing doping underground.

That's like saying handing out condoms in a high school opens the door to teenagers having sex.

[jamix]

Interesting reponse to Hamilton's allegations ..

Were you expecting them to confirm what Hamilton said ?

I've never really understood the "I'm 100% sure he cheated" people. Your a smart guy HCcd. Don't fall for all the vulture journalist stories. Wiki has a pretty thorough and unbiased desciption of LA's doping allegations history.

[Doonst]

Its reached enigma status.

[drghfx]

Its reached enigma status.

We need an enigma cleansing.

[HCcD]

Hincapie too:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report- ... -took-peds

Writing, meet wall!

jono

This just gets weirder and weirder ..

George Hincapie denies reports he has implicated Lance Armstrong in doping investigation

George Hincapie, currently riding in the Tour of California, has denied talking to CBS who last night reported that he was the latest rider to line up against former US Postal colleague Lance Armstrong and give evidence that the seven time Tour de France winner used performance enhancing drugs.

....

but, the article then contiues to say ...

Hincapie has not however denied that he has give evidence to the Federal Grand jury who are currently investigating the alleged used of PHS at US Postal over a decade ago, nor had he denied the content of the CBS reports. He has simply denied talking to them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/lancearmstrong/8527684/George-Hincapie-denies-reports-he-has-implicated-Lance-Armstrong-in-doping-investigation.html

[jamix]

The Hincapie thing is interesting. I'm a LA supporter, but I feel that if Hincapie didn't give damning testimony to a grand jury regarding LA, then there would have been no harm in saying that he didn't.

[TheBman]

Gawd people. Do you all believe in Santa Claus too?

That's 5 ex-teammates now that have said Lance took drugs. All corroborating the same story.

Another half-dozen ex-teammates that have tested positive.

Lance doped.

If Hincapie, the most trusted guy in the peleton, a "brother" to Lance, squealing to the feds hasn't convinced you all that your hero is the dirtiest cyclist ever... I don't know what will beyond a confession from Lance himself. Which still might happen... as he's pretty screwed at this point.

And if you think doping is the worst thing Lance has done... think again. Money laundering, tax evasion, fraud... and more.

Wow....well, that's it! Cancelled my subscription to "anynewsrelatingtoLance" seeing as you have the inside scoop. Not sure why 60min didn't just ask you for the "real" story....

Haters are gonna hate no mater what....so nothin new today that was not "assumed" a week ago.
I like the new approach though..... HEADLINE "I KNOW LANCE DOPED"...by Tyler "I just wrote a book" Hamilton...er wait, sub in Floyd "I'm broke, but have a book coming out, so I need free airtime" Landis.


One thing LA is....is SMART. If he did dope.....do you REALLY think he would say "Hey Tyler...trying to keep this hush hush from the world, but could you toss me your needle, not sure where mine is..." Gimme a break!
B

[Wu wei]

Gawd people. Do you all believe in Santa Claus too?

That's 5 ex-teammates now that have said Lance took drugs. All corroborating the same story.

Another half-dozen ex-teammates that have tested positive.

Lance doped.

If Hincapie, the most trusted guy in the peleton, a "brother" to Lance, squealing to the feds hasn't convinced you all that your hero is the dirtiest cyclist ever... I don't know what will beyond a confession from Lance himself. Which still might happen... as he's pretty screwed at this point.

And if you think doping is the worst thing Lance has done... think again. Money laundering, tax evasion, fraud... and more.

Wow....well, that's it! Cancelled my subscription to "anynewsrelatingtoLance" seeing as you have the inside scoop. Not sure why 60min didn't just ask you for the "real" story....

Haters are gonna hate no mater what....so nothin new today that was not "assumed" a week ago.
I like the new approach though..... HEADLINE "I KNOW LANCE DOPED"...by Tyler "I just wrote a book" Hamilton...er wait, sub in Floyd "I'm broke, but have a book coming out, so I need free airtime" Landis.


One thing LA is....is SMART. If he did dope.....do you REALLY think he would say "Hey Tyler...trying to keep this hush hush from the world, but could you toss me your needle, not sure where mine is..." Gimme a break!
B

Shoot the messenger is the PR tactic used by LA and his lawyers for years. Call me a hater, call me whatever. No harm to me.

If Tyler or Hincapie lie to the Grand Jury, THEY GO TO JAIL. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. GET IT? Ask Marion Jones what it means to lie to a Grand Jury about doping.

Do you think Tyler or Hincapie is going to risk hard jail time for a lousy book deal? Get real.

[Jwolf]

Marg wrote:
After watching that interview it makes me wonder why they don't just allow the doping and create a level playing field that way.
They will never eradicate the problem by the looks of it.

a lot of people think that but I would hate to see that. You open the door to creating medically dangerous territory for both the current athletes and those aspiring to get there (including youth).

"Open the door". What door? That door is wide open right now. The only thing that would open is the ability to supervise athletes properly instead of forcing doping underground.

That's like saying handing out condoms in a high school opens the door to teenagers having sex.

I suppose you also support legalizing marijuana, cocaine, and other illegal drugs? I don't... So I don't think we'll see eye-to-eye on this.

[turd ferguson]

turd ferguson wrote:


"Open the door". What door? That door is wide open right now. The only thing that would open is the ability to supervise athletes properly instead of forcing doping underground.

That's like saying handing out condoms in a high school opens the door to teenagers having sex.

I suppose you also support legalizing marijuana, cocaine, and other illegal drugs? I don't... So I don't think we'll see eye-to-eye on this.

What is this, the all straw man thread?

But yes, if you can show me that a legal prohibition is completely ineffective or is causing more harm than good, I would support legalizing it.

And maybe drugs in cycling are at that point - either legalize them or risk having the entire sport marginalized. Because the status quo is NOT WORKING.

[jamix]

Cycling isn't at risk of being marginalized. If PED's were allowed in cycling, then the sport might develop an image similar to that of Pro Bodybuilding.

[turd ferguson]

Cycling isn't at risk of being marginalized. If PED's were allowed in cycling, then the sport might develop an image similar to that of Pro Bodybuilding.

As opposed to today, where we only *think* that everyone is on drugs.

Its like watching clemens pitch to bonds in 2007.

I'm not saying outright saying drugs should be allowed, just that if they can't stop them the alternative isn't to pretend they don't exist.

[jamix]

Cycling isn't at risk of being marginalized. If PED's were allowed in cycling, then the sport might develop an image similar to that of Pro Bodybuilding.

As opposed to today, where we only *think* that everyone is on drugs.

Its like watching clemens pitch to bonds in 2007.

I'm not saying outright saying drugs should be allowed, just that if they can't stop them the alternative isn't to pretend they don't exist.

Most people don't think everyone is on drugs. Some belief most are, while others such as myself think that the percentages are far lower.

[drghfx]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/m ... tml?hpt=T2

Mainly old stuff but they talk about Lance's saddle sore prescription being back-dated.

Was Armstrong too big to fail?


In his doping confessional to CBS's 60 Minutes, Tyler Hamilton not only tells of witnessing teammate Lance Armstrong's use of the banned blood-boosting agent EPO when they rode together on the U.S. Postal Service team from 1995 to 2001, but he also delivers a blow to Armstrong's longtime defense against such allegations: "Never a failed test," Armstrong tweeted in response to Hamilton's remarks. "I rest my case."

Hamilton paints a picture of a testing cover-up at the 2001 Tour de Suisse, telling CBS that Armstrong told him that he failed a drug test there. The UCI, cycling's governing body, has denied there was any such cover-up, but another former teammate, Floyd Landis, made a similar allegation last year in letters to USA Cycling as federal officials began investigating whether Armstrong was involved in a doping operation while the team was receiving sponsorship money from the Postal Service. Armstrong has repeatedly denied ever taking a performance-enhancing drug, much less testing positive for one. But if the Tour de Suisse accusations prove true, it would underscore what many in cycling have asked for two decades: Was Armstrong too big to fail?

In 1999, while Armstrong was on his way to his first Tour victory after beating cancer, a French newspaper received a tip that Armstrong had tested positive for a corticosteroid and had no therapeutic use exemption (TUE) on his medical form. Armstrong, who was riding for the Postal team, had just said in a press conference that he did not have any prescriptions for banned products. When the team discovered that the newspaper had received the tip, panic hit Armstrong and his inner-circle, according to Emma O'Reilly, a soigneur from Ireland who worked with the team and specifically with Armstrong. She was in the hotel room after the 15th Tour stage when, she says, Armstrong and team officials devised a plan.

"They agreed to backdate a medical prescription," O'Reilly tells SI. "They'd gotten a heads up that [Armstrong's] steroid count was high and decided they would actually do a backdated prescription and pretend it was something for saddle sores."

In violation of its own protocol requiring a TUE for use of such a drug, officials from the UCI announced that Armstrong had used a corticosteroid for his skin and his positive result was excused. O'Reilly also told SI that, just before the start of the '99 Tour, Armstrong asked her to use some of her cosmetics to cover up injection marks on his arm, though O'Reilly does not know what substance Armstrong had injected. O'Reilly made these same allegations in a 2004 book about Armstrong, published only in French, called L.A. Confidentiel. Armstrong subsequently filed a libel suit against O'Reilly, the book's authors and its publisher. He also sued The Sunday Times of London for reprinting the allegations in a review of the book. (Armstrong settled The Times case for an apology and recovery of his legal costs, and dropped the others.)

As early as 1993, Armstrong's testing data as a member of Team USA was aberrational. As SI reported in January, USA Cycling sent a request to the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory in 1999 for past test results -- testosterone-epitestosterone ratios -- for a cyclist identified only by his drug-testing code numbers. A source with knowledge of the request says that the cyclist was Armstrong. The lab responded, detailing the cyclist's test results from 1991 to 1998, with one missing season: 1997, the only year during that span in which Armstrong didn't compete. Three results -- a 9.0-to-1 ratio in 1993, a 7.6-to-1 in 1994 and 6.5-to-1 in 1996 -- were abnormally high. Most people have a ratio of 1-to-1. Before 2005, any ratio above 6.0-to-1 was considered abnormally high and evidence of doping; in 2005 that ratio was lowered to 4.0-to-1. But the high ratios had not led to sanctions. The lab wrote that it had been unsuccessful in attempting to confirm two of the abnormal results, and the third was not mentioned. All of the tests were reported as negative. According to sources familiar with the federal investigation, the government has obtained a copy of the T/E ratio letter first reported by SI.

In August 2005, Armstrong watched his 1999 Tour de France title fall under scrutiny again when the French sports daily L'Equipe reported that his urine sample from the race, retested years later for research purposes not for sanctioning, revealed the presence of EPO. Armstrong went public and assailed the French lab for its sloppiness. Months later, Dutch lawyer Emile Vrijman, who was hired by the UCI to lead an investigation into the French lab, supported Armstrong's claim of lax record-keeping at the lab in a 132-page report. In his interview with 60 Minutes, Hamilton says Armstrong used EPO during his 1999 Tour de France victory. SI previously reported that, following the L'Equipe report, a lawyer for Armstrong was granted a private meeting with EPO experts at the UCLA Olympic lab to discuss drug-testing protocols. 60 Minutes reported that Armstrong and Postal team director Johan Bruyneel met with the director of the lab responsible for his Tour de Suisse tests.

As SI reported previously, allegations by teammates that Armstrong used EPO go back even before his first Tour win. Stephen Swart, Armstrong's teammate on the 1995 Motorola team told SI that he was on a training ride with Armstrong after a race in Italy in March 1995 when Armstrong, disappointed with the team's results, suggested the riders start taking EPO. "He was the instigator," says Swart, who admitted to using EPO after that conversation with Armstrong. "It was his words that pushed us toward doing it. It was his advice, his discussions."

[jonovision_man]

This just gets weirder and weirder ..

George Hincapie denies reports he has implicated Lance Armstrong in doping investigation

George Hincapie, currently riding in the Tour of California, has denied talking to CBS who last night reported that he was the latest rider to line up against former US Postal colleague Lance Armstrong and give evidence that the seven time Tour de France winner used performance enhancing drugs.

....

but, the article then contiues to say ...

Hincapie has not however denied that he has give evidence to the Federal Grand jury who are currently investigating the alleged used of PHS at US Postal over a decade ago, nor had he denied the content of the CBS reports. He has simply denied talking to them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/lancearmstrong/8527684/George-Hincapie-denies-reports-he-has-implicated-Lance-Armstrong-in-doping-investigation.html

Doesn't seem that weird - he talked to the grand jury investigation but didn't talk to the media. Somehow his testimony was leaked to CBS.

jono

[DougG]

And here I thought the soap operas were al cancelled do I think Lance took something? Yes. However what that something is remains to be seen. The terperformance enhancing drugs is another phrase that has been thrown around so muc that it is meaningless. Caffeine is a performance enhancer, as are many other everyday drugs.
Lance has been found guilty of nothing. He is one of, if not the most tested athlete of his time, and he passed every test. I believe someone is innocent until proven guilty. Lance has earned the benefit of a thousands doubts. Most of those coming public have alterior motives for their accusations, so I ignore them.
I really don't care what he took. My opinion of him will not change.

[Wu wei]

And here I thought the soap operas were al cancelled do I think Lance took something? Yes. However what that something is remains to be seen. The terperformance enhancing drugs is another phrase that has been thrown around so muc that it is meaningless. Caffeine is a performance enhancer, as are many other everyday drugs.
Lance has been found guilty of nothing. He is one of, if not the most tested athlete of his time, and he passed every test. I believe someone is innocent until proven guilty. Lance has earned the benefit of a thousands doubts. Most of those coming public have alterior motives for their accusations, so I ignore them.
I really don't care what he took. My opinion of him will not change.

Marion Jones was tested as much or more than Lance. She passed every test. She doped her whole career. Strike one.

It's "ulterior" motive and no... being subpoenaed is not an ulterior motive, it's a requirement of the LAW. Strike two.

I really don't care what he took.

Then you sir have no ethics. Strike three. Thanks for playing.

[La]

I really don't care what he took.

Then you sir have no ethics. Strike three. Thanks for playing.

Woah. Judgmental much?! He's expressing an opinion. Who appointed you the opinion police? Quit being such a bully.

[Wu wei]

I really don't care what he took.

Then you sir have no ethics. Strike three. Thanks for playing.

Woah. Judgmental much?! He's expressing an opinion. Who appointed you the opinion police? Quit being such a bully.

Woah! Indeed. If one expresses the sentiment that fraud and cheating is ok "I really don't care what he took"... that is lack of ethics. That is MY opinion.
I happen to think that fraud and cheating are NOT ok.

[La]

I happen to think that fraud and cheating are NOT ok.

But belittling other people's opinions and mistaken word use are?

It's "ulterior" motive

[Wu wei]

I happen to think that fraud and cheating are NOT ok.

But belittling other people's opinions and mistaken word use are?

It's "ulterior" motive

Belittling? The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I simply rebutted the arguments. I clarified the word "ulterior", because I used it in my rebuttal.