Swimming...

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Re: Swimming...

Postby Ironboy » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:00 pm

ultraslacker wrote:
La wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:(how do people not run out of air???)

I'm not familiar with the drills you're doing, so I'm not sure how they want you to be breathing while doing those (or how long your face is under water), but in a regular freestyle stroke you're never really "holding" your breath, so you never feel the need to "come up for air" or take multiple breaths in between strokes.

I breathe every 3rd stroke, so I guess I technically "hold" my breath for the first stroke, breathe out underwater on the second stroke, then turn my head to the side and breathe in on the third stroke. The key to not feeling out of breath is to breathe out underwater (through the nose, mouth or both, whichever you prefer) so that when you turn to breathe, you are only breathing in. Breathing out and in very quickly is what causes you to feel out of breath.


The triple overswitch is a freestyle stroke. The only difference is that I am resting for two to three breaths in between each set of three strokes (does that make sense?). So I am breathing out, underwater, for three strokes and then resting for two breaths. The transition I need to make is eliminating the "rest" so that I'm just taking a breath and going back in.


It's a bit of a catch 22 with the TI system. On one they want you to relax and go easy, but realistically that takes time and you need to get through the 3 strokes quickly to not run out of breath, but getting through them quickly is harder and you get more out of breath.

Time will fix all, but you'll have to try moving through the motions faster (kinda like speed work) in order to become comfortable at some pace between fast-and-out-of-breath and slow-and-out-of-time.

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Re: Swimming...

Postby La » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:57 pm

What are you doing when you're resting between the three strokes/switches? Are you on your back? Your side? Standing up? Where are your arms/hands, and what are they doing?

Like James says, when you're doing drills at a slow pace (as they are meant to be done) you do kind of run out of air because the stroke is so slow. I never run out of air breathing every 3 or even every 4 strokes during freestyle, but when I get to 5 or more without a breath, it's much tougher. I start to panic around 7 strokes without a breath. ;)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby eme » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:14 pm

I just use the Lap function on my trusty Timex to keep track of my laps.

I have the attention span of a fruit fly in the pool sometimes, so I like the watch as a back up.

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Re: Swimming...

Postby Ironboy » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:41 pm

La wrote:What are you doing when you're resting between the three strokes/switches? Are you on your back? Your side? Standing up? Where are your arms/hands, and what are they doing?


She'd be in her sweet spot: long body, arm extended, other arm relaxed at hip, face up, kicking, ready for next stroke.

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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:19 pm

Ironboy wrote:
La wrote:What are you doing when you're resting between the three strokes/switches? Are you on your back? Your side? Standing up? Where are your arms/hands, and what are they doing?


She'd be in her sweet spot: long body, arm extended, other arm relaxed at hip, face up, kicking, ready for next stroke.


yep!
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:35 pm

maybe I will try breathing between two strokes instead of three, since I won't have to rush it... and see how it goes.
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Re: Swimming...

Postby La » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:22 am

ultraslacker wrote:
Ironboy wrote:
La wrote:What are you doing when you're resting between the three strokes/switches? Are you on your back? Your side? Standing up? Where are your arms/hands, and what are they doing?


She'd be in her sweet spot: long body, arm extended, other arm relaxed at hip, face up, kicking, ready for next stroke.


yep!

ultraslacker wrote:maybe I will try breathing between two strokes instead of three, since I won't have to rush it... and see how it goes.

How long does the rest last? Can you spend less time "resting" so that it doesn't disrupt your breathing - in other words, the rest becomes the stroke where you breathe in?

I'm asking all these questions because I'm not familiar enough with the TI approach, but also because I'm looking for ways to figure out how you can have a more normal breathing pattern to avoid the out of breath feeling you're having.

I know that when I've done certain drills in the past I end up feeling breathless because I "sink" during the drill, can't breathe the way I normally do, and end up having to take multiple breaths in and out, thereby messing up my breathing pattern.
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:28 am

La wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:
Ironboy wrote:
La wrote:What are you doing when you're resting between the three strokes/switches? Are you on your back? Your side? Standing up? Where are your arms/hands, and what are they doing?


She'd be in her sweet spot: long body, arm extended, other arm relaxed at hip, face up, kicking, ready for next stroke.


yep!

ultraslacker wrote:maybe I will try breathing between two strokes instead of three, since I won't have to rush it... and see how it goes.

How long does the rest last? Can you spend less time "resting" so that it doesn't disrupt your breathing - in other words, the rest becomes the stroke where you breathe in?


Yes, but I have to work up to that. The rest period is only as long as I feel I need it to be.

I'm asking all these questions because I'm not familiar enough with the TI approach, but also because I'm looking for ways to figure out how you can have a more normal breathing pattern to avoid the out of breath feeling you're having.

I know that when I've done certain drills in the past I end up feeling breathless because I "sink" during the drill, can't breathe the way I normally do, and end up having to take multiple breaths in and out, thereby messing up my breathing pattern.


I was reading on another forum and it seems as though smooth breathing is something that a lot of people struggle with. What I want to focus on right now is breathing out more gently and making sure I'm not kicking too hard (I don't *think* I'm kicking too hard but apparently that is a common cause of breathing problems).

I also need to get a cap or something because often when I turn up for air I have hair in my face. :/
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Re: Swimming...

Postby Jwolf » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:36 am

I'm surprised you've been doing all this so far without a swim cap...

You'll probably find that a swim cap helps to keep your head a bit more floaty and will make the breathing easier.
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:45 am

floaty head isn't an issue. :)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby Ironboy » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:46 pm

ultraslacker wrote:Yes, but I have to work up to that. The rest period is only as long as I feel I need it to be.


But you will have to practice sometimes making the rest period shorter than you feel you need it to be.

Swim cap, good. Hair in face, bad.

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Postby ultraslacker » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:31 am

Saturday was session 15 but I wasn't counting or doing anything in particular, just doing a few laps with a friend.

Session 16 was tonight. I think I did 36 laps but I kind of lost count. I focused on better breathing today. I know this is obvious, but the more relaxed and smooth I am, the less out of breath I get. Tried to pay attention to whether I was kicking too much/hard. Sometimes I think I was, but at other times I got into a bit of a groove and it felt better. Tried to make the rest times shorter, and was successful to a point but I still have a way to go.

Also trying to keep in mind my favourite advice from the TI book: never practice struggle; always practice control. :)

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Re:

Postby Ironboy » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:25 am

ultraslacker wrote:Also trying to keep in mind my favourite advice from the TI book: never practice struggle; always practice control. :)


That advice could apply to a great many things!

How did the swim with you friend go?

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Re: Swimming...

Postby FishPants » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:09 pm

For "plastic sheet protector" you can substitute "ziploc baggie" :)

I am horrible at losing count, and it is nice to see I am not alone. If I lose track, I never assume I have done the distance - so if I am thinking to myself "was that 50 or 100?" I count it as 50. Anything longer than 100 in the set and I get confused and have to really concentrate so I don't lose count.

I could count with my Timex, but I have heard that pushing buttons underwater will make it lose its water resistance faster.

Great job on the 40 laps!! :D

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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:17 am

I haven't posted here for a couple of weeks because I didn't swim for two weeks (I was sick). I swam yesterday but only did about 14 laps because I was there with someone else again. I need to go to the pool alone or I can't focus and take my time. Still working on trying to figure out the breathing!!
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Postby ultraslacker » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:02 am

40 laps today. The first 32 were my regular drills (4 laps each of 8 drills) and then I did 8 laps of my new regular stroke. I am really trying to get the breathing down so I worked on one breath per two strokes. I changed sides each length so that I will be able to do either side. I am still turning too far when I turn up to breathe, and still spending too much time breathing, BUT I definitely am improving and feel as though I am very close to being able to breathe/stroke smoothly.

One thing I love about this process is that I can feel definite improvement with every session. Everything that I am practicing gets easier, smoother, and more relaxed each time I do it. :)

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Re:

Postby ultraslacker » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:12 am

ultraslacker wrote:40 laps today. The first 32 were my regular drills (4 laps each of 8 drills) and then I did 8 laps of my new regular stroke. I am really trying to get the breathing down so I worked on one breath per two strokes. I changed sides each length so that I will be able to do either side. I am still turning too far when I turn up to breathe, and still spending too much time breathing, BUT I definitely am improving and feel as though I am very close to being able to breathe/stroke smoothly.


Did the exact same thing today. It felt harder this time, probably because I ran before I swam, and gave blood two days ago. Either way, I still feel as though I am making progress!

Probably boring you all with the constant updates, lol. But I like having this record of my progress. From here it is just lots of practice and learning how to breathe! :)

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Re: Swimming...

Postby carm » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:36 am

What a great thread for us to follow your progress. I just got caught up over the last few pages. Hopefully you can figure out your foot cramps. There were some great recommendations mentioned in the discussion. As runners, we're not used to having our feet and calves (it's all connected!) in that 'pointed toe' (I forget the actual anatomical term) position so combine that with low electrolytes, tight muscles and/or unrelaxed muscles and you can get cramps. I've never had foot cramps but I live in fins most of the time for scuba diving and underwater hockey, so I think that my feet are used to being in that position. Hence, I only use water for my swim workouts.

I use a ziploc bag for my swim workouts but a sheet protector would work just as well. I'm impressed that you've been swimming without a cap too. It won't affect your head buoyancy too much (body position will take care of that) but they're useful to keep your hair out of your face. The silicone ones are more comfortable than the latex ones and don't make you feel like your face has had a face lift. :lol:

Keep up the good work!!!!
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Re: Swimming...

Postby Ironboy » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:25 am

It's not boring (well no any more boring than a Crossfit training log ;) )

I like reliving that learning experience vicariously. I'm just waiting for your first triathlon. ;)

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Re: Swimming...

Postby JoaniB » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:29 am

Ultra, you are inspiring me. With the weather as it is today, I'm going to the nearby YMCA pool to swim. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one out there (or on here) who might be struggling with form or mechanics or attention span. My history of swimming is pretty similar.

The last time I tried lane-swimming was before I started running. Do you have a similar experience, and did the running help your swimming endurance?
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:37 pm

Ironboy wrote:It's not boring (well no any more boring than a Crossfit training log ;) )

I like reliving that learning experience vicariously. I'm just waiting for your first triathlon. ;)


I always said I had no desire to do a tri... But I may reconsider! I still have a lot of work to do on the swimming though!

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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:40 pm

JoaniB wrote:Ultra, you are inspiring me. With the weather as it is today, I'm going to the nearby YMCA pool to swim. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one out there (or on here) who might be struggling with form or mechanics or attention span. My history of swimming is pretty similar.

The last time I tried lane-swimming was before I started running. Do you have a similar experience, and did the running help your swimming endurance?


Before this I hadn't really been swimming AT ALL in about 25 years so I was really starting over. Unfortunately, I struggle so much with the breathing that I feel completely out of shape... So I don't think running helps that much!

Good luck getting back into it, and keep us posted!

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Swimming...

Postby Kelodie » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:31 am

I don't find your journal boring either. I enjoy reading about your progress. :-)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby Ironboy » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:12 am

ultraslacker wrote:
Ironboy wrote:It's not boring (well no any more boring than a Crossfit training log ;) )

I like reliving that learning experience vicariously. I'm just waiting for your first triathlon. ;)


I always said I had no desire to do a tri... But I may reconsider! I still have a lot of work to do on the swimming though!


I get that it's not your goal or interest really, but once you get this swimming thing down pat, I think it's worth the experience. You're a solid runner, and progressing nicely in the swim, by next summer (2013) with a few brick workouts to get the feel of running off the bike, I think you'd really enjoy a sprint or even super sprint. (assuming they have these type of events in your area).

The whole build up to race start is so much more exciting and nerve wracking than a running race. I think you'd get a kick out of it.

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Re: Swimming...

Postby JoaniB » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:02 pm

ultraslacker wrote:Before this I hadn't really been swimming AT ALL in about 25 years so I was really starting over. Unfortunately, I struggle so much with the breathing that I feel completely out of shape... So I don't think running helps that much!


Hey, Ultra, thank you for your response - I thought there was something wrong with me, that I could hardly do 25 meters without gasping like a fish... out of water (bad puns are my specialty).

Have you found a way to steady your breathing in the water? Or is it practice, practice, prac-*gulp of chlorinated water*-tice?
Ottawa Race Weekend 10k (2009): 1h07m; Army Half-marathon (2009): 2h38m; St. Patrick's Day 5k (2010): 33m; Ottawa Race Weekend Half-marathon (2010): 2h28m (getting better!); St. Patrick's Day 10k (2011): 1h13m (or not); Calgary 10k (2012): 1h06m (new PB!); Canadian Derby Half-marathon (2012): 2h17m (PB!)
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