Challenge Penticton

[Wu wei]

I'm still on vacation brain at work, so I thought I would post here as the Dark Side seems to have become the Dead Side...

Just wanted to say that Challenge Penticton 2014 was pretty awesome.
The minor course changes and the finish line on Main Street with an adjoined beer garden were great ideas.

I raced the half, run concurrently as the full and relays. No issues that I saw with the combination of the fields and relay races.
The half bike course is TOUGH! But hey, Sister Madonna got through it... so can you!

Congrats to Cinc for completing the full distance.

The relay division is really popular. I think it's a great idea to bring out the single-sporters or those who for various reasons can't compete in the full distances.

I've been inspired to sign up for the full in 2015. $500 for the first 250 entrants is a good deal too. $250 for the half.

Already heard some rumours of more improvements from the new private owners.

I think it's time to put the M-DOT comparisons to rest in Penticton. It's not coming back. This is a completely new race on the classic old course.

[IronGoddess]

Don't count Ironman out. We heard from a VERY good source last weekend that Ironman wants out of the Whistler contact and that they can leave after next year. They want back into Penticton or Victoria. I think it would be a shame for Challenge if they got bullied out. We had a lot of fun. What I hated was the constant comparisons people were making to Ironman. If you want Ironman then go do an Ironman.

[Mark.AU]

...I thought I would post here as the Dark Side seems to have become the Dead Side...

Yeah, we need a good Lance thread... j/k Seriously, j/k.

I'm glad you're still around, there's a dearth of triathletes around here now. We could talk about the new data suggesting that shaved legs do actually make significant savings on time, something like 50-70 seconds on a 40K...

/hijack

[Wu wei]

...I thought I would post here as the Dark Side seems to have become the Dead Side...

Yeah, we need a good Lance thread... j/k Seriously, j/k.

I'm glad you're still around, there's a dearth of triathletes around here now. We could talk about the new data suggesting that shaved legs do actually make significant savings on time, something like 50-70 seconds on a 40K...

/hijack

Funny story... on Friday before the race with buddy of mine who has never shaved his legs:.
Buddy: "Have to shave my legs tonight! It's going to take hours.."
Me: "What, you see that Specialized wind tunnel test or something?"
Buddy: "YES! I can't leave that much time on the table now!!!!"

[Wu wei]

Don't count Ironman out. We heard from a VERY good source last weekend that Ironman wants out of the Whistler contact and that they can leave after next year. They want back into Penticton or Victoria. I think it would be a shame for Challenge if they got bullied out. We had a lot of fun. What I hated was the constant comparisons people were making to Ironman. If you want Ironman then go do an Ironman.

Glad you showed up for some fun!

I'm fairly certain that Cutjar and Brown will not take the Ironman bait if offered.
Brown was quoted as saying they want to make the race the "Roth" of North America.

The people I talked to Penticton were quite satisfied with the new event and were happy to see it grow with Challenge.
Moving the taxpayer debt to a private owner was a big thing that calmed the most vocal opponents.

I'd wager if IM leaves Whistler they move it to Victoria and make it a full.
The course in Victoria has some limitations on field size though. I've done the half there... pretty small transition IIRC?

[IronGoddess]

I live in Victoria and would love to see a big event here. I also have raced the 1/2 here. Now that it is a 70.3 the cost is 215. Where I paid 80. Crazy! It would be tough to get all our municipal governments on board. If they all were it could be a great race. I hope Challenge works. There needs to be a bit of competition out there.


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[jonovision_man]

Challenge attracted what, 1000 entrants total? Across all distances, around 400 for the full.
No comparison to Ironman, it may be a nice local event but Penticton blew it, no comparing the two events. Sad that they messed with a 30 year tradition and for what? To stand up to the company that was bringing huge dollars into the community? We spent literally thousands while we were there all in, this year I spent those dollars in Tremblant. It was missing something that comes with a 30 year event IMO, something special was lost.

jono

[Jwolf]

Greg forgot to mention that he came in 11th overall. Nice result.

I'm glad to hear such a positive review of this event. I'm seriously considering it next year.

[Wu wei]

Challenge attracted what, 1000 entrants total? Across all distances, around 400 for the full.
No comparison to Ironman, it may be a nice local event but Penticton blew it, no comparing the two events. Sad that they messed with a 30 year tradition and for what? To stand up to the company that was bringing huge dollars into the community? We spent literally thousands while we were there all in, this year I spent those dollars in Tremblant. It was missing something that comes with a 30 year event IMO, something special was lost.

jono

Tremblant is a great location and race. Can't go wrong there.

Almost everyone I talked to who raced or to watch in Pencticton this year said they would be back next year. There is still something special. You'd have to come back and race to find out though...

[Jwolf]

People who want the IM brand will always say IM is better. I hope Challenge can continue to show what makes them "special."

[alexk]

I know very little about distance triathlons but recently learned about the Challenge series (vs IM). There's a Challenge event in my neck of the woods - St. Andrews, NB - and, I think, it's been well received, after 2 yrs. I have some friends who've done the event & felt it was a great fit for people w/ families, in particular. There were lots of events for kids t/o the wknd & kids were well received @ the finish line. This support can be a big selling feature for athletes w/ families, I think.

[MINITEE]

People who want the IM brand will always say IM is better. I hope Challenge can continue to show what makes them "special."

Exactly.... I specifically chose a "NON" IM event for my first half and honestly with what an awesomely run event it was, I would find it hard (personally), to justify the extra cost that IM charges for the same distance/support/event.

Not sure if I will ever do an IM branded. And I am more than happy with the new options available like Challenge.

I have a few friends who are pros and the crap that happened in Placid with the public funded "Pay 10 deep" movement made me realize what a bunch of asshats some of the IM executive really are.

Bring it on.

[jonovision_man]

My beef isn't with Challenge, or any other triathlon trying to make a go of it - undoubtedly there are triathlons outside of "Ironman" that can be wonderful, loved, enjoyed, embraced, successful. Ironman doesn't have a monopoly on triathlon (despite their best efforts!), having good ideas, putting on excellent races, etc! It can be done better, someone may well do it better. I wish them all the best, and like others said it's good to have competition.

My beef is with Penticton's delusional council, who punted a 30 year race only to replace it with an event that draws 1/3 the number of athletes... if their goal was tourism to the region, they already had it, 2500 people with their entourages showing up to spend lots and lots of money, go on wine tours, eat at restaurants, stay in hotels. There's a reason other areas were left clamoring for IM Canada once they let it go, and are very happy to have it... it's a golden goose.

So good luck to both events, hopefully they can all be successful. And a pox on Penticton city council's houses.

jono

[Wu wei]

My beef is with Penticton's delusional council, who punted a 30 year race only to replace it with an event that draws 1/3 the number of athletes... if their goal was tourism to the region, they already had it, 2500 people with their entourages showing up to spend lots and lots of money, go on wine tours, eat at restaurants, stay in hotels. There's a reason other areas were left clamoring for IM Canada once they let it go, and are very happy to have it... it's a golden goose.

So good luck to both events, hopefully they can all be successful. And a pox on Penticton city council's houses.

jono

Delusional, or forward thinking? Time will tell. Booting the WTC gave the town much greater control in the long run, and critically, access to the race from local businesses... WTC contracts are very restrictive.

The race had 1100+ total participants this year, and there were loads of people in town to support others and watch the race. Not a bad second year.

[CinC]

My beef is with Penticton's delusional council, who punted a 30 year race only to replace it with an event that draws 1/3 the number of athletes... if their goal was tourism to the region, they already had it, 2500 people with their entourages showing up to spend lots and lots of money, go on wine tours, eat at restaurants, stay in hotels. There's a reason other areas were left clamoring for IM Canada once they let it go, and are very happy to have it... it's a golden goose.

So good luck to both events, hopefully they can all be successful. And a pox on Penticton city council's houses.

jono

Delusional, or forward thinking? Time will tell. Booting the WTC gave the town much greater control in the long run, and critically, access to the race from local businesses... WTC contracts are very restrictive.

The race had 1100+ total participants this year, and there were loads of people in town to support others and watch the race. Not a bad second year.

My beef is with people who think they know or understand the whole story about what happened between WTC and the city of Penticton. I don't know all the issues that were at play, nor do I need to know - for me, we choose to race in Penticton because it's Penticton. It doesn't matter if it's Challenge or Ironman. And there are people who chase the Ironman races to say they did an Ironman. If this race was Challenge back in 2008 when i was deciding to do my first iron distance race for 2009, would I have signed up for it? I don't know, nor do I need to have an opinion on those who are in that boat now and still dismiss Challenge and sign up for Whistler. Really, my only 'beef' is that I think WTC should have changed the name from Ironman Canada to Ironman Whistler, but whatever. And I participate and travel for many Ironman branded races - and will continue so.

Anyway back to Challenge Penticton. With a minimal base going into the summer due to a bit of burn out and other things, I was signed up for the Half in Penticton, and then had the thought on about Jun 22 of 'well, since we're going to be there anyhow, why not do the full?' and after consulting my coach, the 8 week plan commenced. I paid for my lack of base on the bike, so had a longer day than my usual and was a 15:00 finisher. Leading into the race and seeing how low the full numbers were, I was a bit worried about how 'lonely' the course would feel.

I didn't really notice it too badly on the bike - Richters was def better than Yellow Lake - which was a ghost town. I was used to the approach to Yellow in the past and it was crowded with people most of the way. This year, there was maybe about 15 people at the turn off to Apex. Then thankfully the gorilla and banana guy part way up playing music. I found it quite demoralizing - but it was just because it was race day. So, really, it felt like a training ride, and if you saw a gorilla and banana guy in a training ride, then that would make it epic. So there you go.

Riding into town and seeing how 'sparse' it was on the run course, it caused me to panic a wee bit thinking 'what the hell am I doing?' as I felt this immediate guilt for those volunteers who would have to be manning the run course all along East Side for so few people. Felt very weird to ride on Main street and be alone. And getting into T2 with no crowds. And into the T2 tent and it being totally empty.

The run though, wasn't as bad as I thought. I cannot lie and say it was wonderful, because well, it wasn't. It was sparse. It caused you to think. And thinking really doesn't combine well with doing an iron distance race. But the aide stations were fantastic and the one thing was that with so few people out there, you usually said a 'good job' or 'way to go' to those going in the other direction. I wasn't thrilled when i saw the course change with the finish line change, but it was nice to make the turn around at OK falls and be at 23k already. Mind you, the out and back in OK falls was demoralizing - and with no volunteer or timing mat at that lone pylon, someone could have easily turned around way earlier (it was about 3/4 of a km out).

The part that stuck in my mind though was running back into town and hitting the 'main' street area, and there being no one. I was expecting a coyote to walk through - totally a different feel that running in CDA. And the old IMC. You could hear the finish line and see the lights and that last block was fabulous. But too bad it was for only one block though.

I'm glad I did the race though and I hope it continues and rebuilds. There is no other course that compares to the beauty and uniqueness of it, and we always go out there, and will be back.

[jonovision_man]

My beef is with Penticton's delusional council, who punted a 30 year race only to replace it with an event that draws 1/3 the number of athletes... if their goal was tourism to the region, they already had it, 2500 people with their entourages showing up to spend lots and lots of money, go on wine tours, eat at restaurants, stay in hotels. There's a reason other areas were left clamoring for IM Canada once they let it go, and are very happy to have it... it's a golden goose.

So good luck to both events, hopefully they can all be successful. And a pox on Penticton city council's houses.

jono

Delusional, or forward thinking? Time will tell. Booting the WTC gave the town much greater control in the long run, and critically, access to the race from local businesses... WTC contracts are very restrictive.

The race had 1100+ total participants this year, and there were loads of people in town to support others and watch the race. Not a bad second year.

I don't think you can call them "forward thinking" when they handed over the race to a private organizer who promptly lost almost $400k and had to abandon...

... but the new guys deserve a chance, they seem to have their heads on straight and I'll take your word for it that it was a lot of fun.

jono

[Wu wei]

I don't think you can call them "forward thinking" when they handed over the race to a private organizer who promptly lost almost $400k and had to abandon...

... but the new guys deserve a chance, they seem to have their heads on straight and I'll take your word for it that it was a lot of fun.

jono

No. The race was handed to a private organizer for NEXT years race. The city has owned and operated the race last year and this year.

From all I heard, the first year committee made many mistakes. I think they assumed it would be business as usual... so budgeted accordingly.
BUT to make it worse... many people signed up for Challenge after IMC 2012 because the new IMC location was not announced yet. With the liberal refund policy, over half of the registrants bolted to Ironman when Whistler was finally announced.

With lower production costs and more registrants, I bet the race broke even or made a small amount this year.

And one for the rumour mill... the RD who was contracted and ran this years Challenge race, dropped his bid to own the Challenge event to pursue a bid to take over Outback Events (and possibly other smaller races in BC/AB?).

[jonovision_man]

These guys?
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/260458411.html

jono

[jonovision_man]

OK I found something more up to date. They indeed took over the license. And the race lost $200K-$300K this year...

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/arti ... l?mode=jqm

The inaugural 2013 race saw a shortfall of about $400,000, towards which the provincial government also contributed $125,000. The mayor said this year’s deficit is expected to drop to somewhere between $200,000 and $300,000.

jono

[Wu wei]

OK I found something more up to date. They indeed took over the license. And the race lost $200K-$300K this year...

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/arti ... l?mode=jqm

The inaugural 2013 race saw a shortfall of about $400,000, towards which the provincial government also contributed $125,000. The mayor said this year’s deficit is expected to drop to somewhere between $200,000 and $300,000.

jono

Cool. The deficit numbers are not official, but wouldn't surprise me.
The key was the new race owners assuming the debt. That appeases the Penticton taxpayers.

[CinC]

OK I found something more up to date. They indeed took over the license. And the race lost $200K-$300K this year...

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/arti ... l?mode=jqm

The inaugural 2013 race saw a shortfall of about $400,000, towards which the provincial government also contributed $125,000. The mayor said this year’s deficit is expected to drop to somewhere between $200,000 and $300,000.

jono

I read that the deficit is 'dropping' to $200-$200k, not and additional $200-$300k. So you had $400k shortfall. offset that with $125k from gov. shortfall is now $275k. To me, that sounds like they were hoping this year that the race broke even or close to that.

[jonovision_man]

OK I found something more up to date. They indeed took over the license. And the race lost $200K-$300K this year...

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/arti ... l?mode=jqm

The inaugural 2013 race saw a shortfall of about $400,000, towards which the provincial government also contributed $125,000. The mayor said this year’s deficit is expected to drop to somewhere between $200,000 and $300,000.

jono

I read that the deficit is 'dropping' to $200-$200k, not and additional $200-$300k. So you had $400k shortfall. offset that with $125k from gov. shortfall is now $275k. To me, that sounds like they were hoping this year that the race broke even or close to that.

Deficits refer to a single year. Debt is the cumulative.

jono

[CinC]

OK I found something more up to date. They indeed took over the license. And the race lost $200K-$300K this year...

http://www.pentictonherald.ca/news/arti ... l?mode=jqm

The inaugural 2013 race saw a shortfall of about $400,000, towards which the provincial government also contributed $125,000. The mayor said this year’s deficit is expected to drop to somewhere between $200,000 and $300,000.

jono

I read that the deficit is 'dropping' to $200-$200k, not and additional $200-$300k. So you had $400k shortfall. offset that with $125k from gov. shortfall is now $275k. To me, that sounds like they were hoping this year that the race broke even or close to that.

Deficits refer to a single year. Debt is the cumulative.

jono

i stand corrected.

[jonovision_man]

Anyway, I'm done beating this dead horse.

See wu wei, it's not the Dead Side when you're around!

jono

[IronColl]

Thanks Greg and Carla for your input. I was wondering sepecifically about the full distance. I will be doing the half in the future for sure.

As someone with limited resources I am unable to do IM or IM distance races as often as I would like (yearly), and I want as much of the experience as I can get. I am deterred by the lack of support I saw on the live feed and read here. As someone who is in the last quarter of participants, the numbers are few enough as it is, and I would have a hard time being that alone on the course. Unless IM comes back to Penticton I will be doing the full distance elsewhere.

That being said, I have done 3 different triathlons in the Penticton area and have enjoyed then and would love to continue racing 2 of them there.