Hills

[Dstew]

Looking for some real world advice or tips as to what made you a better climber. In my rides, I seem to be able to keep up with most other riders on the downhill. I am little slower on the flats but not outrageously so. But hills, I am terrible. I do appreciate that doing hills are the best way to do hills but was there any specific way that helped you. I also see a lot of heavy weights for me this winter with a focus on the glutes.

[FishHog]

losing any additional weight will really help. The extra pounds I carry have always been my largest issue on hilly courses.
Easier said than done. And not just personal weight, anything your carrying you don't need will help if you can ditch it.

[Mark.AU]

Climbing is about two things, one technical and physical.

Technique in understanding how to properly use your gears will make a huge difference in how you approach a climb. I learned a lot from riding with other roadies. It's similar to how you'd drive a stick shift car up a hill; keep the cadence steady, the power output steady, and use the gears to maintain that. Practice makes perfect.

Physically, it's about being able to put out the highest level of sustainable power over the duration of the climb. Hill repeats; tempo rides; intervals will all build your ability to sustain a high power output - particularly intervals and hill repeats. It's really not a lot different from running - you need to train your organism to put out a high power level over a period of time sufficient to get up the hill.

Couple technique with power and you can climb. Oh, plus genetics. I [was] a time trialist (partly through inclination and partly through training) and I can drop my roadie friends all day on the flats because I can sustain a good level of power over a long period of time. I've trained myself and am genetically and mentally predisposed to do that, and that's what triathletes need to be able to do. On the other hand, those same roadie friends can out climb me all day because they can call on reserves of high power far better than I can.

[Dstew]

losing any additional weight will really help. The extra pounds I carry have always been my largest issue on hilly courses.
Easier said than done. And not just personal weight, anything your carrying you don't need will help if you can ditch it.

No weight on the bike other then a tube change kit and water - carbon bike so cannot change that.

Not too sure about the personal weight issue. Around 220 last December and now for the last few months have been steady at the 178 - 182 range. I am now too old to lose weight on a temporary basis just to do something better but on the other hand and likely against the wishes of my mother and wife, I am not opposed to losing a few extra pounds on a permanent basis.

[Dstew]

Climbing is about two things, one technical and physical.

Technique in understanding how to properly use your gears will make a huge difference in how you approach a climb. I learned a lot from riding with other roadies. It's similar to how you'd drive a stick shift car up a hill; keep the cadence steady, the power output steady, and use the gears to maintain that. Practice makes perfect.

Physically, it's about being able to put out the highest level of sustainable power over the duration of the climb. Hill repeats; tempo rides; intervals will all build your ability to sustain a high power output - particularly intervals and hill repeats. It's really not a lot different from running - you need to train your organism to put out a high power level over a period of time sufficient to get up the hill.

Couple technique with power and you can climb. Oh, plus genetics. I [was] a time trialist (partly through inclination and partly through training) and I can drop my roadie friends all day on the flats because I can sustain a good level of power over a long period of time. I've trained myself and am genetically and mentally predisposed to do that, and that's what triathletes need to be able to do. On the other hand, those same roadie friends can out climb me all day because they can call on reserves of high power far better than I can.

I read about the technique you have suggested and I seem to getting better at that. Far from perfect but I do not think that is the biggest issue I face. I am able to keep the momentum going but when I need to access that power reserve, it is almost as if I stall before that kicks in. So with that in mind, my question is when working on the hill repeats, should I be working on technique first and let the power flow from that or purposefully use a harder gear then required to build power?

As a side note, I have gone into bike shops and asked what I think are basic questions and I have had a lot of very friendly and helpful advice. I have been surprised with the on coming bicycle on the other side of the road giving the little wave as an acknowledgement we are all in this together. Or the word of encouragement when being passed on a hill. When I first started doing races, I did not have any good interactions with the better runners. There was one race, my of my first half marathons and I think I finished in the 1:38 range. Another guy had drafted off of me and thanked me for helping him break the 1:40 barrier that he had failed to do many times. In expressing his gratitude he suggested that "our" next goal may be to one day break the 90 minute barrier. Some 90 pound weakling came over and interrupted us to say that only "real" runners could do that and we would never be able to do that. I have a number of such stories. With that experience, I had some reservations about talking to much better cyclists, but on the very positive note, the much better cyclists then I have been extremely helpful and giving of their time. Just yesterday, I got some great tips as to how to fuel up during the ride.

[Mark.AU]

You do both. As Greg Lemond said, it doesn't get easier, you just get faster. Oh, and it takes years to build the strength and technique to get really good. Or [and] you could focus on the fun

[Dstew]

You do both. As Greg Lemond said, it doesn't get easier, you just get faster. Oh, and it takes years to build the strength and technique to get really good. Or [and] you could focus on the fun

I am not going to be entering any races but rather rides - Fondos, 100 K rides and the like. So anything I am doing in preparation for those rides is to make that experience more enjoyable and pleasurable and of course, fun. From my experience on the road and looking at Strava segments, I am very much a very average rider, middle of the pack. Thus the preparation also has to be fun as no matter what I do, I am not going to very challenge the top riders in my age category. And very fortunate for me, there is almost no greater joy then the sense of accomplishment after completing a set of intervals where my heart if pounding, I am grasping for breath and sweat is pouring off of me.

To be honest, I have no illusions that I am going to "get really good". That is right now I suck going up big hills and so my goal is to suck less. There is a sort of freedom for stress, pressure and expectations when you lack a certain set of skills and abilities that I do on a bike. That is if I did that extra run and/or ran faster and/or ran longer and that increases my odds of going from 5th to 3rd or 3rd to 1st in a race, I almost feel an obligation to do so. I am compelled to do so and "want" turns into "have" to do it. But with cycling, my goal is to climb a big hill near me and with no one in sight, no bib, no timer, no witnesses, I want to feel good about how fast I made it up. Thus my workouts are because I want to do that, not because I have to do it. Thus on Tuesday, my legs were tired, I was physically and mentally tired, the time got away from me and I skipped a planned ride.

[FishHog]

Around 220 last December and now for the last few months have been steady at the 178 - 182 range. .

way to go, that is excellent. I think you already have gains in that area. Go back up to 220 and you will see the difference it made. OK don't really do that. But you get what I'm saying.

[Dstew]

Around 220 last December and now for the last few months have been steady at the 178 - 182 range. .

way to go, that is excellent. I think you already have gains in that area. Go back up to 220 and you will see the difference it made. OK don't really do that. But you get what I'm saying.

Thanks - although it was not that hard as at the time it was to me a matter of life and if not death, disability. I do get what your are saying as I can literally tell you when I am at 182 or 178.

[jonovision_man]

I think everyone pretty much covered it, but just to add another voice to the choir - for me it's about 3 things:

#1 is weight - by a mile. On the flip side I can really pull away from people on the downhills when I'm heavy!
#2 is momentum - carry it into the hill (but don't kill yourself). I find a lot of people coast to the hill and lose alllll their momentum, especially on group rides and stuff, drives me nuts.
#3 is training... you want to climb hills, train hills! Nothing quite simulates the quad burning lower cadence of a hill, the angle of you on your bike, etc. One year I did hill repeats once a week (or so) and my climbing improved so much.

jono

[Dstew]

I think everyone pretty much covered it, but just to add another voice to the choir - for me it's about 3 things:

#1 is weight - by a mile. On the flip side I can really pull away from people on the downhills when I'm heavy!
#2 is momentum - carry it into the hill (but don't kill yourself). I find a lot of people coast to the hill and lose alllll their momentum, especially on group rides and stuff, drives me nuts.
#3 is training... you want to climb hills, train hills! Nothing quite simulates the quad burning lower cadence of a hill, the angle of you on your bike, etc. One year I did hill repeats once a week (or so) and my climbing improved so much.

jono

1) After watching the Olympic bike races, maybe it is good idea to lose weight to make going up easier. I feel good at my weight that again seems to be in the 179 - 182 range but my checkup in November may tell me different. I am enjoying the lighter me - from 220 down to the 180 but there is a part of me that thinks a spring focus on dropping some more pounds may not be such a bad idea.

2) I am "killing" myself approaching the hill so have to figure that out. Not bad with the gears but ever so often I really make a bone head decision and it is not pretty.

3) This one makes a lot of sense to me. Long story short, I have one or two very, very nasty and short uphills but they are much more accessible with my hybrid/ commuter bike then the road bike. South facing and so could be accessible in the early spring. I will be doing hills with the road bike but do you see a downside to using the hybrid bike for hills as well? Anyone is free to put in their two cents.


Winter training: I have a good spinner bike but zero electronics on it. Not sure I really want to spend any good money to measure the things that would add training. So any suggestions as what to do over the winter. I have a number of spinner bike DVDs - used them when I could not run back in 2011. I have read that heavy weights with the obvious lower body focus is in order but not to forget about the upper body as that is still being used. I could be wrong but I am thinking less elliptical and more stepper?


I am registered for and will be running the Calgary marathon at the end of May. I am going to focus most of my training for that in March and April with 5 or so long runs of 25 K or more during that period. My time goals are gone for that and so in the weeks leading up to the race, I will be transitioning in a cycle focused program. The idea is to ride the Banff Gran Fondo in August - 150 K. I believe I have found several decent training programs to follow but any suggestions, tips or hints would be appreciated.

While I am on a roll. I have the Moose Mountain 29 K run on August 27. I have completed my "long" runs for that for again, my time goals are still there but not that I am going to do much about them. So my focus is now on the bike. My general thought is a hard 20 - 25 K ride on Tuesday. A easier 30 - 40 K ride on Thursday and then a longer ride on the weekend. I can do 47.5 K fairly easily. So I was thinking 60 K this Saturday and add 5 K per week for a couple of weeks. Not sure if I want to do my longest ride one or two weeks from a 100 K ride on September 17. Thoughts and opinions and given what I am doing, how far would you suggest that will be. After the August race, I am open to switching out a run day for a fourth day on the bike.

To be perfectly honest, my gut tells me to wing it and do what feels right. I have not registered for the 100 K ride as I do not just want to finish but to average somewhere in the 25 kph range. I know it is completely subjective and arbitrary goal and of course gets one into the nice round 4 hour range but there it is. But I also want to make sure that I will enjoy a longer ride such as that or more importantly, the much, much more expensive Banff option in 2017 - $45 for the September ride v $200 + and a $200 hotel room. I have started to practice fueling on the ride. All I can say about that is that I have not fallen off my bike nor swerved into traffic but it is early days.

And to give you an idea as to my current skill level. In Strava, if I am doing something I am decent at and know the segment coming up, I somewhere in the middle of the pack but closer to the back of the middle. On things I am not good at, I would be in the bottom 20 - 25%. I know that I am not going to become a cyclist over night but I am committed to becoming a decent middle of the pack rider. My sense is my skills and abilities are going to cap me at that level but I am having fun and it has been a blast exploring a new dimension.

For me to show up for a 5 K race, I have to have at least a slim chance to finish top 3 or I will not bother. For a marathon, my magic number keeps on changing but right now, it is if I cannot run it in less then 4:25 or so, why bother. I have all of these expectations and unwritten rules about running races but with cycling, I know I am never going to be a serious or competitive rider so quite happy to be somewhere in the middle of the pack and as I said, if that is the back of the middle, that works for me. So anything you can think of, I would appreciate you sharing.

[La]

Mark, FishHog and Jono covered things off well.

I totally agree with Jon's #1 that it's about weight (power-to-weight ratio). If you're already at a weight you're happy with (because it's about finding the right weight for "real life" not just for cycling since we're not pros), then work on increasing your power. If you're already riding a carbon road bike with proper gearing for hills, shaving off a few ounces with different components won't make any real difference.

All the guys in the pro tour could ride one-legged up a hill faster than most of us could with two, but you still see a huge differential in the climbing abilities of the pros, with the bigger guys at the back struggling to make the time cutoff. That differential exists for us, too; we're all just doing it at a much slower pace.

On a side note, as someone who drives a standard car, it amazes me how many people don't get the basics of gear shifting on the bike. Learning to shift properly (especially whether you should be in your big or small front chain ring ring) is an often overlooked component of cycling skill. Jon's #2 bugs me, too. For those of us who need all the help we can get riding up hill, I want to use as much momentum as possible to get me started. Here in Ontario most of our routes are rolling, so using the downhills/flats leading into the next uphill (along with proper gear shifting) is critical. The terrain in your area might be different.

[jonovision_man]

I will be doing hills with the road bike but do you see a downside to using the hybrid bike for hills as well? Anyone is free to put in their two cents.

It all helps - I flip between my 3 bikes all the time. Although the way you climb on a road bike is probably different than a hybrid - ie. when you get out of the saddle, so you'd want to make sure you get enough time on the bike you will use in the race too.

jono