Is juice "natural?"

[La]

http://blogs.plos.org/obesitypanacea/20 ... #more-3181

Wow, this kind of surprised me!

Even a freshly made fruit smoothie is still pretty refined when compared to the fruit itself. It takes a fair amount of energy and chopping (not to mention a fancy modern blender) to get a pineapple to the point that you can consume it through a straw. You can think of a fruit smoothie as essentially a piece of blueberry pie in a glass – at least in the pie the blueberries aren’t liquefied (seriously – an original size strawberry raspberry banana smoothie at Jamba Juice has more calories and more sugar than a piece of homemade blueberry pie). Smoothies may be a lot less refined than Twinkies, but they’re not all that far from Nutella or peanut butter.

[jgore]

Wow is right. I didn't know about the storage conditions for 'not from concentrate' juices and the use of flavour packs. No wonder the juices from different companies don't taste the same. I presume each uses its own flavour combinations.

[QuickChick]

I don't really drink juice- I like fruit a LOT and usually will just reach for a piece of fruit instead. If I do drink juice, it's only freshly squeezed stuff if I'm out for breakfast somewhere nice. I would say freshly squeezed stuff is pretty natural, though a small glass of orange juice is much more calorie and sugar dense than an orange. At least it's natural sugar though, at least if it's JUST the juice.

And smoothies, I say it depends on how they're made. DEFINITELY they're more of a meal than a drink calorie-wise (like most mixed drinks, e.g. lattes), but if you think of them that way at least there's some nutrition value in them vs blueberry pie. The smoothie I had last week at Cultures probably had too much sugar in it (vanilla yogurt) but I saw them put in several whole strawberries and probably half a banana. I had it at about 4pm, between lunch at about noon and dinner at about 7:30 or 8. I was STARVING and it satisfied me nicely till dinner.
Some places definitely add more stuff to their smoothies, don't use whole fruit, throw in protein powder (TONS of calories, and often not needed) etc. THOSE, I would say are as sinful as pie. Again though, it depends... some people who do big weight workouts or super long runs probably wouldn't think of the protein powder as unnecessary after their workout.

[turd ferguson]

I don't buy it. Chopping, smashing and blending aren't the same thing as refining.

I guess if that's your definition of natural, then juice isn't natural, but saying that a pineapple smoothie is like a twinkie or peanut butter because its chopped finely is a pretty odd definition.

You can certainly talk about the sugar level in juice, but I think the argument about being non-natural is specious.

[fingerboy]

Natural is just another marketing term to confuse buyers and make a quick buck.

We seriously need an overhaul on food an drugs advertising and reporting.

[Jwolf]

I don't buy it. Chopping, smashing and blending aren't the same thing as refining.

I agree.

It depends on whether the fibre from the fruit is being mashed up with the rest. In smoothies, it usually is (although not necessarily the commercial ones). If you are filtering out the fibre, like a juicer, then you are losing a lot of the benefit of the fruit. But it has nothing to do with the energy it takes to mash it up.

To say that eating a smoothie is like eating a pie depends completely on how the smoothie is made. Most pies contain a lot more fat and sugar than actual fruit. If your homemade smoothie is made mostly from crushed fruit, it is NOT the same as a pie.

However, the points about juices, where the fibre has been stripped away from the fruit, makes sense. Juices are high in calories and I usually avoid juices for that reason. But they do contain a lot more vitamins and nutrients than pop, without all the sodium and crap, so I wouldn't say you're better off drinking pop!

[deerdree]

I don't buy it. Chopping, smashing and blending aren't the same thing as refining.

I agree.

It depends on whether the fibre from the fruit is being mashed up with the rest. In smoothies, it usually is (although not necessarily the commercial ones). If you are filtering out the fibre, like a juicer, then you are losing a lot of the benefit of the fruit. But it has nothing to do with the energy it takes to mash it up.

To say that eating a smoothie is like eating a pie depends completely on how the smoothie is made. Most pies contain a lot more fat and sugar than actual fruit. If your homemade smoothie is made mostly from crushed fruit, it is NOT the same as a pie.

However, the points about juices, where the fibre has been stripped away from the fruit, makes sense. Juices are high in calories and I usually avoid juices for that reason. But they do contain a lot more vitamins and nutrients than pop, without all the sodium and crap, so I wouldn't say you're better off drinking pop!

big +1

[Hammie]

Even a freshly made fruit smoothie is still pretty refined when compared to the fruit itself. It takes a fair amount of energy and chopping (not to mention a fancy modern blender) to get a pineapple to the point that you can consume it through a straw.

By this definition, chewing your food is "refining" it, since the entire function of chewing it to reduce solids to near-liquid form that can be swallowed. Unless they're proposing that you swallow a whole, unwashed, unpeeled pineapple?

[Avis]

Unless they're proposing that you swallow a whole, unwashed, unpeeled pineapple?

[turd ferguson]

Eight or nine posts to debunk a goofy blog post. Must be a new record.

Is this the point where we turn on each other?

[turd ferguson]

Even a freshly made fruit smoothie is still pretty refined when compared to the fruit itself. It takes a fair amount of energy and chopping (not to mention a fancy modern blender) to get a pineapple to the point that you can consume it through a straw.

By this definition, chewing your food is "refining" it, since the entire function of chewing it to reduce solids to near-liquid form that can be swallowed. Unless they're proposing that you swallow a whole, unwashed, unpeeled pineapple?

http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/the-chewing-diet/

I think I'll nickname myself The Great Masticator.

[Hammie]

Even a freshly made fruit smoothie is still pretty refined when compared to the fruit itself. It takes a fair amount of energy and chopping (not to mention a fancy modern blender) to get a pineapple to the point that you can consume it through a straw.

By this definition, chewing your food is "refining" it, since the entire function of chewing it to reduce solids to near-liquid form that can be swallowed. Unless they're proposing that you swallow a whole, unwashed, unpeeled pineapple?

http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/the-chewing-diet/

I think I'll nickname myself The Great Masticator.

I think we all just assumed that already. No, wait...

[Spirit Unleashed]

Even a freshly made fruit smoothie is still pretty refined when compared to the fruit itself. It takes a fair amount of energy and chopping (not to mention a fancy modern blender) to get a pineapple to the point that you can consume it through a straw.

By this definition, chewing your food is "refining" it, since the entire function of chewing it to reduce solids to near-liquid form that can be swallowed. Unless they're proposing that you swallow a whole, unwashed, unpeeled pineapple?

http://www.dietsinreview.com/diets/the-chewing-diet/

I think I'll nickname myself The Great Masticator.

I think we all just assumed that already. No, wait...

[Jwolf]

While we're at it, what's wrong with natural peanut butter (at the end of that paragraph)? Is that refined too?

[La]

Eight or nine posts to debunk a goofy blog post.

Written by guys who actually do research and have degrees in this stuff...

There are several messages in this article (that were not all fully explored in this particular article, but in some cases linked to in previous articles):
- That what people think of as a "natural" beverage (100%, not from concentrate OJ), isn't as natural as we think due to the addition of flavour packets.
- That orange juice (even 100% juice) has more calories and almost as much sugar as Coke & Pepsi
- That sugar is sugar, and whether it's "naturally occurring" in OJ, or added to pop, your body processs it the same way
- That he's not suggesting we don't drink juice, but just be mindful of quantities and not be deluded in thinking that it's all that much better for us than pop.
- That eating a whole fruit - as opposed to fruit juice - is going to fill us up more and have a lower-calorie impact as a result

I've heard the "blended" vs "whole" fruit argument in the past (that it changes the net calories due to the extra calories required for your body to process bigger chunks of food rather than liquids), but it does seem that he is exaggerating a bit when he compares smoothies to blueberry pie.

That said, *some* people get caught up in the halo effect that just because something looks and sounds healthy, that it's also lower in calories (which WE all know isn't true).

[La]

While we're at it, what's wrong with natural peanut butter (at the end of that paragraph)? Is that refined too?

He didn't say natual PB. He said Nutella and PB.

[Jwolf]

Problem is he lost cred when he jumped from "chopped fruit" to pie, and then used a commercial smoothie with lots of additives as evidence.

Commercially produced juice itself isn't great especially if you are watching calories. It still doesn't compare to pop which is just pure sugar and no nutrition-- and its sugar comes from high-fructose corn syrup, not natural sugar. So even there-- calorie for calorie it's not the same.

But unfortunately his good points got lost when he stumbled into the smoothie argument.

[turd ferguson]

Eight or nine posts to debunk a goofy blog post.

Written by guys who actually do research and have degrees in this stuff...

There are several messages in this article (that were not all fully explored in this particular article, but in some cases linked to in previous articles):
- That what people think of as a "natural" beverage (100%, not from concentrate OJ), isn't as natural as we think due to the addition of flavour packets.
- That orange juice (even 100% juice) has more calories and almost as much sugar as Coke & Pepsi
- That sugar is sugar, and whether it's "naturally occurring" in OJ, or added to pop, your body processs it the same way
- That he's not suggesting we don't drink juice, but just be mindful of quantities and not be deluded in thinking that it's all that much better for us than pop.
- That eating a whole fruit - as opposed to fruit juice - is going to fill us up more and have a lower-calorie impact as a result

I've heard the "blended" vs "whole" fruit argument in the past (that it changes the net calories due to the extra calories required for your body to process bigger chunks of food rather than liquids), but it does seem that he is exaggerating a bit when he compares smoothies to blueberry pie.

That said, *some* people get caught up in the halo effect that just because something looks and sounds healthy, that it's also lower in calories (which WE all know isn't true).

I agree with all of your points.

I get that he has a degree and all, but there's a difference between research and advocacy. There's lots of good reasons to avoid juice, but this was still goofy.

[deerdree]

Problem is he lost cred when he jumped from "chopped fruit" to pie, and then used a commercial smoothie with lots of additives as evidence.

Commercially produced juice itself isn't great especially if you are watching calories. It still doesn't compare to pop which is just pure sugar and no nutrition-- and its sugar comes from high-fructose corn syrup, not natural sugar. So even there-- calorie for calorie it's not the same.

But unfortunately his good points got lost when he stumbled into the smoothie argument.

i agree again, especially with your first line. that was a pretty poor argument.

[Samantha]

It depends on whether the fibre from the fruit is being mashed up with the rest. In smoothies, it usually is (although not necessarily the commercial ones).

huh? how do you think they are made?

[Miss*Smiles]

I'm confused...

When I go to the store and get Tropicana OJ, not from concentrate, and it says it's made with 100% Pure Oranges, nothing added, nothing taken away.... that's not correct?

And, when I look up the nutritional information on the Tropicana (Canada) and Pepsi (Pepsico, I think it's the US site) sites (which, btw, are owned by the same parent company ... not that it has anything to do with anything), I don't see the same facts he is blogging about....

Tropicana Pure Premium Original Orange Juice Nutritional Facts:
Serving = 250 ml
Calories 110
Sodium 0 mg
Fat 0 g
Potassium 470 mg
Total Carbs 27 g
Dietary Fiber 0 g
Sugars 23 g
Protein 2 g
Vitamin A 0%
Calcium 2%
Vitamin C 120%
Folate 25%
Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.


Pepsi (Original) Nutrition Facts:
Serving = 250 ml
Calories 105.6
Sodium 10.55 mg
Fat 0.0 g
Potassium 0.0 mg
Total Carbs 28.9 g
Dietary Fiber 0.0 g
Sugars 28.9 g
Protein 0.0 g
Vitamin A 0.0 %
Calcium 0.0 %
Vitamin C 0.0 %
Folate 0.0 %
Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.

[deerdree]

It depends on whether the fibre from the fruit is being mashed up with the rest. In smoothies, it usually is (although not necessarily the commercial ones).

huh? how do you think they are made?

with juice! that's the thing - as far as i can tell on the website, the first ingredient in the jamba juice smoothie he referenced is juice. so of course there's less fibre than if you ate the fruit whole (or just blended whole fruit in a blender).

[dgrant]

Natural is just another marketing term to confuse buyers and make a quick buck.

We seriously need an overhaul on food an drugs advertising and reporting.

One thing I was surprised to learn recently was the misleading nature of "natural flavour". Producers can and do simulate the flavour profile of, say, an orange using sugars from corn, and label that "orange" product as "naturally flavoured". The flavour just has to come from any natural source, not necessarily the actual natural thing it's supposed to taste like.

[Samantha]

It depends on whether the fibre from the fruit is being mashed up with the rest. In smoothies, it usually is (although not necessarily the commercial ones).

huh? how do you think they are made?

with juice! that's the thing - as far as i can tell on the website, the first ingredient in the jamba juice smoothie he referenced is juice. so of course there's less fibre than if you ate the fruit whole (or just blended whole fruit in a blender).

but her statement is confusing because it makes it sound like there is no fruit in the commercial ones. then it would be just a juice-y.

You get a better texture if you add liquid to the fruit before blending. Believe me if they could get away with not adding juice they would. It just adds to fruit costs.

[deerdree]

It depends on whether the fibre from the fruit is being mashed up with the rest. In smoothies, it usually is (although not necessarily the commercial ones).

huh? how do you think they are made?

with juice! that's the thing - as far as i can tell on the website, the first ingredient in the jamba juice smoothie he referenced is juice. so of course there's less fibre than if you ate the fruit whole (or just blended whole fruit in a blender).

but her statement is confusing because it makes it sound like there is no fruit in the commercial ones. then it would be just a juice-y.

You get a better texture if you add liquid to the fruit before blending. Believe me if they could get away with not adding juice they would. It just adds to fruit costs.

i don't think it's fair to equate blended pineapple with a commercial smoothie (as he did in the article) because commercial smoothies are rarely just fruit - they often have juice, milk, yogurt, etc added in. that being said, you can also find ones that don't have any whole fruit. here's the ingredients list for a mcdonalds "real fruit" smoothie:

Strawberry puree, banana puree, water, sugar, concentrated apple juice, contains less than 1% of the following: Cellulose powder, natural (botanical source) and artificial flavors, xanthan gum, citric acid, colored with fruit and vegetable juice, pectin.

obviously you can see how that might be worse than a piece of pie in a cup - the flavour is fruit puree and juice concentrates, not whole fruit. but to use the amount of sugar in a commercial smoothie as evidence to then say that blended pineapple is essentially pie because you haven't chewed it yourself is crazy. not all smoothies are created equal. i can make one at home that is literally just whole fruit with water added to help blend it.