Ketos or Keytones

Because you can't outrun a bad diet!
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Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:12 pm

I am curious has anyone used Ketones or Ketos in training?

A friend is using them for training for a figure competition and the benefits seam like they could help but I want to hear from others who have used them. :help:

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby ultraslacker » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:53 pm

I haven't, but welcome to RM!

Tangentially related, I've ordered some books from the library about ketogenic diets for epilepsy. I know some people use them for weight loss, but it can also be used to treat epilepsy (whether it's effective enough to warrant the effort is what I'm hoping to find out when I get the books).
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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby eme » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:02 pm

I know of some Ironman distance triathletes that are keto and it works well for them

This coach posts a fair bit about keto and training https://www.facebook.com/evolutionmssn

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:52 am

ultraslacker wrote:I haven't, but welcome to RM!

Tangentially related, I've ordered some books from the library about ketogenic diets for epilepsy. I know some people use them for weight loss, but it can also be used to treat epilepsy (whether it's effective enough to warrant the effort is what I'm hoping to find out when I get the books).


Thanks for the welcome and input ultraslacker!

I know I would not have the will power to go completely Ketogenic, so I am looking at using a product called pruvit. It releases Ketones into the body, I would only use it on long training days and the actual race day. It is kinda the lazy mans way of getting ketones lol

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:54 am

eme wrote:I know of some Ironman distance triathletes that are keto and it works well for them

This coach posts a fair bit about keto and training https://www.facebook.com/evolutionmssn


THANK YOU EME!! This is the exact product I was looking at using I just couldn't find anyone running and using it!! I so much appreciate this!

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby eme » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:02 pm

Trimblek2 wrote:
eme wrote:I know of some Ironman distance triathletes that are keto and it works well for them

This coach posts a fair bit about keto and training https://www.facebook.com/evolutionmssn


THANK YOU EME!! This is the exact product I was looking at using I just couldn't find anyone running and using it!! I so much appreciate this!


Glad to have helped. He is a Facebook friend and posts about it quite regularly. I did keto for a bit, but I like to have the freedom of a balanced diet.

Belated welcome and good luck with your training!

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby ultraslacker » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:25 pm

I don't know enough about it yet, but is it as effective to take it as a supplement vs naturally produced? I wonder if that would be an option for me. I need to investigate further.
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First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:41 pm

eme wrote:
Trimblek2 wrote:
eme wrote:I know of some Ironman distance triathletes that are keto and it works well for them

This coach posts a fair bit about keto and training https://www.facebook.com/evolutionmssn


THANK YOU EME!! This is the exact product I was looking at using I just couldn't find anyone running and using it!! I so much appreciate this!


Glad to have helped. He is a Facebook friend and posts about it quite regularly. I did keto for a bit, but I like to have the freedom of a balanced diet.

Belated welcome and good luck with your training!


Yes I agree I couldn't be full Keto (I am too much of a carb lover lol) which is why this supplement intrigues me lol

Good luck to you too and Happy New Year!!

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:46 pm

ultraslacker wrote:I don't know enough about it yet, but is it as effective to take it as a supplement vs naturally produced? I wonder if that would be an option for me. I need to investigate further.


I am not sure myself I am still in the beginning stages of research myself. I do have a friend who has done a lot of research on it's use so to some extent I am piggy backing off of her research. She has lots of general knowledge about it and its use in everyday life and figure competitions. If you would like I can connect you with her she might be able to help you some :) She got me off to a good start so now I am just finding the details that pertain to running lol

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby ultraslacker » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:51 pm

Yes and mine is specific to epilepsy so I need to know about that in particular. I would need to know that it's actually legit and not just another snake oil miracle cure.


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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Habs4ever » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:40 pm

ultraslacker wrote:Yes and mine is specific to epilepsy so I need to know about that in particular. I would need to know that it's actually legit and not just another snake oil miracle cure.


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I talked to Kaytlyn's neurologist when we was still seeing the Children's Hospital neurologist. He had limited success with it in children who's epilepsy was not being controlled with medication only. It's not something you can sort of follow, for it to be effective it has to be followed 100% of the time, there is no such thing as a cheat day. The children are hospitalized for the first 2-3 weeks and everything is measured and monitored precisely. We were extremely interested in K doing this but at the age she was already at he felt she was not a suitable candidate, along with the type of seizures* she was having, and the fact that medication was controlling her seizures very well. I can't remember the specifics as it was quite a few years ago, but what stands out is that it had to be followed all the time, (for epilepsy) no deviations, no doing it one day, and not the other and get back on track tomorrow.
I think it might be worthwhile talking with your doctor about it and see if they have had success in adults with your type of seizures.

*Kaytlyn has nocturnal, grand mal seizures, meaning they only happen when she is asleep.
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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby deerdree » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:54 pm

i've done a lot of research on pruvit while i was waiting for it to become available in canada. or, i should say that i tried to do a lot of research. so far, i haven't been able to find any independent research to support their claims. i'm wary of the fact that the people who rave about it are also those who are selling it (similar to concerns i have about beachbody's shakeology, but that's more widely available and so at least there have been some comparisons to non-MLM products wirtten - although nothing in the scientific literature that i've seen).

my take home is that there is evidence of the benefits of a ketogenic diet for particular conditions (i'm not sure of the evidence for weight loss in general - or how it would compare to, say, a paleo diet). a friend of mine is a pediatric neurologist and followed the diet as a fundraiser at her hospital. it is a VERY strict diet, and she was miserable, but did it partly to understand what her patients were going through. but this supplement that purports to (literally) let you have your cake and still enjoy the benefits of a keto diet hasn't sold me. i'd be the first one to throw my money at it if i thought it worked, and yes, i've seen the test strips from happy customers, but i don't believe it.

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby ultraslacker » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:27 pm

Dee, I was hoping you'd chime in! We can always count on you to know the research (or be able to find it!).

I am skeptical of "have your cake and eat it too" as well, and like you said, the proponents so far are the ones selling it. Will be interested in seeing how it plays out once it's more widely available.


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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby ultraslacker » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:01 pm

$150/month USD for daily Pruvit supplements. :shock:

I've been reading about it for the past couple of hours and it sounds like it COULD be helpful, but that's a hefty price tag for what essentially would be a personal experiment.
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Habs4ever » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:14 pm

I guess I should clarify that I was talking about the ketogenic diet in my post above, not any type of supplements.
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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:50 am

deerdree wrote:i've done a lot of research on pruvit while i was waiting for it to become available in canada. or, i should say that i tried to do a lot of research. so far, i haven't been able to find any independent research to support their claims. i'm wary of the fact that the people who rave about it are also those who are selling it (similar to concerns i have about beachbody's shakeology, but that's more widely available and so at least there have been some comparisons to non-MLM products wirtten - although nothing in the scientific literature that i've seen).

my take home is that there is evidence of the benefits of a ketogenic diet for particular conditions (i'm not sure of the evidence for weight loss in general - or how it would compare to, say, a paleo diet). a friend of mine is a pediatric neurologist and followed the diet as a fundraiser at her hospital. it is a VERY strict diet, and she was miserable, but did it partly to understand what her patients were going through. but this supplement that purports to (literally) let you have your cake and still enjoy the benefits of a keto diet hasn't sold me. i'd be the first one to throw my money at it if i thought it worked, and yes, i've seen the test strips from happy customers, but i don't believe it.


Yes I am skeptical of it too. That is why I thought I would ask here and see if anyone had used it. I tried to research it too but my research skills are less then stellar lol. I was told that the ketone drink can be used only on days where you are doing a harder training like long run days, but again comes from those who sell it. One thing that makes me tempted towards it is that the lady who introduced it to me also introduced me to thrive which I saw huge benefits from, although that is a completely different product, it makes me a bit less skeptical.

I appreciate your insight you seam very well versed in this! I am not looking for it's use for weight-loss more just for performance, as I have heard it can help you push harder through your workout but I am not sure about the truth of that.

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:57 am

ultraslacker wrote:$150/month USD for daily Pruvit supplements. :shock:

I've been reading about it for the past couple of hours and it sounds like it COULD be helpful, but that's a hefty price tag for what essentially would be a personal experiment.


Yes I agree it is a very hefty price tag that is why I was hoping someone else had done the personal experiment lol. Even if I could buy say 5 packets (rather then the whole 30 packets) just to try on my hard run days to debunk that myth about them helping pre-workout would be nice.

I only want it for those hard training days so a $150 dollar pack would last me about 6 months, but if it dosen't work I am still stuck with $150 of garbage :(

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby ultraslacker » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:00 pm

Trimblek2 wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:$150/month USD for daily Pruvit supplements. :shock:

I've been reading about it for the past couple of hours and it sounds like it COULD be helpful, but that's a hefty price tag for what essentially would be a personal experiment.


Yes I agree it is a very hefty price tag that is why I was hoping someone else had done the personal experiment lol. Even if I could buy say 5 packets (rather then the whole 30 packets) just to try on my hard run days to debunk that myth about them helping pre-workout would be nice.

I only want it for those hard training days so a $150 dollar pack would last me about 6 months, but if it dosen't work I am still stuck with $150 of garbage :(


Since you're new here, tell us a bit about yourself!

The question that popped into my head when I read this last post was, "where are you at in your training/performance?"

I could see if people are at the height of their performance and looking for a slight edge... but for *most* of us (myself included), we'd probably be better off to focus on better training, etc. :)
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby ultraslacker » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:03 pm

Trimblek2 wrote:I appreciate your insight you seam very well versed in this! I am not looking for it's use for weight-loss more just for performance, as I have heard it can help you push harder through your workout but I am not sure about the truth of that.


Dee is our local research expert! She is a pro researcher and remembers everything. I always know if I need someone to find and/or interpret studies, she's the best person to ask lol
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby deerdree » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:38 pm

Trimblek2 wrote:
deerdree wrote:i've done a lot of research on pruvit while i was waiting for it to become available in canada. or, i should say that i tried to do a lot of research. so far, i haven't been able to find any independent research to support their claims. i'm wary of the fact that the people who rave about it are also those who are selling it (similar to concerns i have about beachbody's shakeology, but that's more widely available and so at least there have been some comparisons to non-MLM products wirtten - although nothing in the scientific literature that i've seen).

my take home is that there is evidence of the benefits of a ketogenic diet for particular conditions (i'm not sure of the evidence for weight loss in general - or how it would compare to, say, a paleo diet). a friend of mine is a pediatric neurologist and followed the diet as a fundraiser at her hospital. it is a VERY strict diet, and she was miserable, but did it partly to understand what her patients were going through. but this supplement that purports to (literally) let you have your cake and still enjoy the benefits of a keto diet hasn't sold me. i'd be the first one to throw my money at it if i thought it worked, and yes, i've seen the test strips from happy customers, but i don't believe it.


Yes I am skeptical of it too. That is why I thought I would ask here and see if anyone had used it. I tried to research it too but my research skills are less then stellar lol. I was told that the ketone drink can be used only on days where you are doing a harder training like long run days, but again comes from those who sell it. One thing that makes me tempted towards it is that the lady who introduced it to me also introduced me to thrive which I saw huge benefits from, although that is a completely different product, it makes me a bit less skeptical.

I appreciate your insight you seam very well versed in this! I am not looking for it's use for weight-loss more just for performance, as I have heard it can help you push harder through your workout but I am not sure about the truth of that.

hi Trimblek2 - you caught me at a particularly good time because i've actually looked into this product for myself! for background, i have a PhD in health research methodology, so my training is in researching/synthesizing/appraising health research. but i've been researching pruvit for personal reasons because i have PCOS, which is often linked to insulin resistance and thus managed with a low carb diet. some people with PCOS follow a ketogenic diet, so it's been on my radar. i started hearing about pruvit about two years ago, and at that time, it was "coming to canada soon" so i was waiting and waiting and waiting - and debating sending some to a post office over the border. whatever you do, don't register on their website with real information! i made the mistake of giving them my cell phone number, and i constantly get texts about teleconferences and specials.

after a while, i gave up on it because i couldn't find any evidence that wasn't produced by the company, and because the cost (especially with the current exchange rate) is prohibitive. my brother is a 'muscle guy' (for lack of a better word) and just came up to me a few weeks ago saying someone at the gym had told him about it. i gave him the same spiel i gave above, about my reservations. with all that said, even the strongest evidence doesn't tell the whole story about how something will work for you - and i haven't been able to find anything disproving their claims. so to be clear, i'm not saying the evidence says it's ineffective, i'm saying there is no evidence (besides personal testimonial).

if you're thinking about using it mostly as a pre-workout supplement, my first thought is that there might be other products that are cheaper, more accessible, and better-researched - but i'm not well-versed in those so can't comment. we just had an interesting thread about creatine, for example.

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:51 pm

ultraslacker wrote:
Trimblek2 wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:$150/month USD for daily Pruvit supplements. :shock:

I've been reading about it for the past couple of hours and it sounds like it COULD be helpful, but that's a hefty price tag for what essentially would be a personal experiment.


Yes I agree it is a very hefty price tag that is why I was hoping someone else had done the personal experiment lol. Even if I could buy say 5 packets (rather then the whole 30 packets) just to try on my hard run days to debunk that myth about them helping pre-workout would be nice.

I only want it for those hard training days so a $150 dollar pack would last me about 6 months, but if it dosen't work I am still stuck with $150 of garbage :(


Since you're new here, tell us a bit about yourself!

The question that popped into my head when I read this last post was, "where are you at in your training/performance?"

I could see if people are at the height of their performance and looking for a slight edge... but for *most* of us (myself included), we'd probably be better off to focus on better training, etc. :)


I am 22, from Canada, and I kind of stumbled on to running lol Last summer we move 20 minutes out of town and when we did this it made it so I was unable to attend bootcamp due to time crunches at the same time my Boyfriends mom was cleaning out her house and asked if we wanted the treadmill since she didn't use it. So I thought running would be a great way to keep in shape till I could find a new workout plan. Well it turns out I loved running and a few weeks later I signed up for a 10K to give myself a goal. So the day before my 22nd birthday I ran my first 10K, and LOVED it.

Now I have decided I want to do a half marathon next summer, but I wanted to have a real workout plan this time not just I am going to run 5 days a week till I can run 10Km (I am so lucky I didn't end up with any injuries). And that basically lead to the black hole we call the internet and a lot of overwhelm lol So I am still a fairly new runner with no one to really turn to for advise that is why I turned here lol

I guess basically I'm just lost lol!

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Trimblek2 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:59 pm

deerdree wrote:
Trimblek2 wrote:
deerdree wrote:i've done a lot of research on pruvit while i was waiting for it to become available in canada. or, i should say that i tried to do a lot of research. so far, i haven't been able to find any independent research to support their claims. i'm wary of the fact that the people who rave about it are also those who are selling it (similar to concerns i have about beachbody's shakeology, but that's more widely available and so at least there have been some comparisons to non-MLM products wirtten - although nothing in the scientific literature that i've seen).

my take home is that there is evidence of the benefits of a ketogenic diet for particular conditions (i'm not sure of the evidence for weight loss in general - or how it would compare to, say, a paleo diet). a friend of mine is a pediatric neurologist and followed the diet as a fundraiser at her hospital. it is a VERY strict diet, and she was miserable, but did it partly to understand what her patients were going through. but this supplement that purports to (literally) let you have your cake and still enjoy the benefits of a keto diet hasn't sold me. i'd be the first one to throw my money at it if i thought it worked, and yes, i've seen the test strips from happy customers, but i don't believe it.


Yes I am skeptical of it too. That is why I thought I would ask here and see if anyone had used it. I tried to research it too but my research skills are less then stellar lol. I was told that the ketone drink can be used only on days where you are doing a harder training like long run days, but again comes from those who sell it. One thing that makes me tempted towards it is that the lady who introduced it to me also introduced me to thrive which I saw huge benefits from, although that is a completely different product, it makes me a bit less skeptical.

I appreciate your insight you seam very well versed in this! I am not looking for it's use for weight-loss more just for performance, as I have heard it can help you push harder through your workout but I am not sure about the truth of that.

hi Trimblek2 - you caught me at a particularly good time because i've actually looked into this product for myself! for background, i have a PhD in health research methodology, so my training is in researching/synthesizing/appraising health research. but i've been researching pruvit for personal reasons because i have PCOS, which is often linked to insulin resistance and thus managed with a low carb diet. some people with PCOS follow a ketogenic diet, so it's been on my radar. i started hearing about pruvit about two years ago, and at that time, it was "coming to canada soon" so i was waiting and waiting and waiting - and debating sending some to a post office over the border. whatever you do, don't register on their website with real information! i made the mistake of giving them my cell phone number, and i constantly get texts about teleconferences and specials.

after a while, i gave up on it because i couldn't find any evidence that wasn't produced by the company, and because the cost (especially with the current exchange rate) is prohibitive. my brother is a 'muscle guy' (for lack of a better word) and just came up to me a few weeks ago saying someone at the gym had told him about it. i gave him the same spiel i gave above, about my reservations. with all that said, even the strongest evidence doesn't tell the whole story about how something will work for you - and i haven't been able to find anything disproving their claims. so to be clear, i'm not saying the evidence says it's ineffective, i'm saying there is no evidence (besides personal testimonial).

if you're thinking about using it mostly as a pre-workout supplement, my first thought is that there might be other products that are cheaper, more accessible, and better-researched - but i'm not well-versed in those so can't comment. we just had an interesting thread about creatine, for example.

Thank you deerdree!

It is interesting you mention the PCOS because I was recently diagnosed with it myself. I haven't looked into it much as my doctor says mine is very mild. I wouldn't start taking pruvit with out consulting my dr but I don't want to bother taking it to her unless I have "done my homework" But I am starting to think it might be best left until there is a bit more knowledge and openness about the product. But Don't be surprised if you see me back here asking other nutrition questions :)

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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby ultraslacker » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:26 pm

at that stage in your running, and given your youth, you will see massive improvements just from consistency and gradually building up your distance and/or paces. This forum has a wealth of great info (take a look at some of the older training topics). It's a lot cheaper and more effective just to work on consistent training than to worry about supplements at this stage. :)
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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby Spirit Unleashed » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:57 pm

If you are 22 and new to running, then do the work to increase speed. Fancy supplements won't help.
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Re: Ketos or Keytones

Postby deerdree » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:27 am

Trimblek2 wrote:Thank you deerdree!

It is interesting you mention the PCOS because I was recently diagnosed with it myself. I haven't looked into it much as my doctor says mine is very mild. I wouldn't start taking pruvit with out consulting my dr but I don't want to bother taking it to her unless I have "done my homework" But I am starting to think it might be best left until there is a bit more knowledge and openness about the product. But Don't be surprised if you see me back here asking other nutrition questions :)

now that i've read your running history, i agree with the others - you're quite young and new to running, so just getting out there is 'enough' for now. if you've made it to 10km, i'd say you're over the suckiest bit of starting to run. congrats! have you found a plan for training now?

i was diagnosed when i was 23 (i'm 36 now) - glad to hear it's mild! my only advice would be to continue to be active; it's really the best way to manage the symptoms, with the added bonus of being good for you in general.

come back with any questions!


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