"The Secret Life of Fat"

Because you can't outrun a bad diet!
deerdree
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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby deerdree » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:46 pm

ultraslacker wrote:For me, avoiding the chip aisle doesn't even help.

I don't go down that aisle when I'm grocery shopping. I don't keep junk food in the house.

I get a craving in the middle of the day and make a SPECIAL TRIP to the store to buy my junk food. Like the other night when I walked to 7-11 to buy icecream. Didn't need it, didn't have it in the house, just got a craving and went and bought it. I clearly have NO self control. :/

oh, i hear you! one of the good things about my move is that the grocery store isn't very convenient to me anymore. before, i had the 24-hour sobey's right down the street, and i had no problems popping out at 10pm when a craving hit. :roll:

luckily here there isn't anywhere near me that is that convenient. my bigger issue now is just impulse buying at the grocery store because of sales. i don't even have a craving, i'm just compelled to buy junk because of the shiny sale sticker. and then once the junk is in the house, it gets consumed fairly quickly. then i have to rationalize with myself - you didn't want this before you came into the store, these things go on sale all the time, the savings on this will go into buying bigger pants, etc. etc. it's just easier (and more effective) not to put myself in a situation where i have to get into that debate.

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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby ultraslacker » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:16 pm

deerdree wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:For me, avoiding the chip aisle doesn't even help.

I don't go down that aisle when I'm grocery shopping. I don't keep junk food in the house.

I get a craving in the middle of the day and make a SPECIAL TRIP to the store to buy my junk food. Like the other night when I walked to 7-11 to buy icecream. Didn't need it, didn't have it in the house, just got a craving and went and bought it. I clearly have NO self control. :/

oh, i hear you! one of the good things about my move is that the grocery store isn't very convenient to me anymore. before, i had the 24-hour sobey's right down the street, and i had no problems popping out at 10pm when a craving hit. :roll:

luckily here there isn't anywhere near me that is that convenient. my bigger issue now is just impulse buying at the grocery store because of sales. i don't even have a craving, i'm just compelled to buy junk because of the shiny sale sticker. and then once the junk is in the house, it gets consumed fairly quickly. then i have to rationalize with myself - you didn't want this before you came into the store, these things go on sale all the time, the savings on this will go into buying bigger pants, etc. etc. it's just easier (and more effective) not to put myself in a situation where i have to get into that debate.


"compelled" is the right word, for both of our behaviours. It's that feeling of compulsion where we're not even thinking about what we're doing, just automatically doing it. I find that if I take the time to stop and analyze what I'm doing, then I'll make a better choice. But when I'm tired/stressed/emotional/whatever, I don't have the mental energy to stop and analyze what I'm doing... I just do it automatically like a robot. If only my compulsions were for things like carrots. :P

Daniel Amen talks about this kind of thing in his brain health books... I should look that up again and see what he says about addressing it.
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

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La
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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby La » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:20 am

ultraslacker wrote:
deerdree wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:For me, avoiding the chip aisle doesn't even help.

I don't go down that aisle when I'm grocery shopping. I don't keep junk food in the house.

I get a craving in the middle of the day and make a SPECIAL TRIP to the store to buy my junk food. Like the other night when I walked to 7-11 to buy icecream. Didn't need it, didn't have it in the house, just got a craving and went and bought it. I clearly have NO self control. :/

oh, i hear you! one of the good things about my move is that the grocery store isn't very convenient to me anymore. before, i had the 24-hour sobey's right down the street, and i had no problems popping out at 10pm when a craving hit. :roll:

luckily here there isn't anywhere near me that is that convenient. my bigger issue now is just impulse buying at the grocery store because of sales. i don't even have a craving, i'm just compelled to buy junk because of the shiny sale sticker. and then once the junk is in the house, it gets consumed fairly quickly. then i have to rationalize with myself - you didn't want this before you came into the store, these things go on sale all the time, the savings on this will go into buying bigger pants, etc. etc. it's just easier (and more effective) not to put myself in a situation where i have to get into that debate.


"compelled" is the right word, for both of our behaviours. It's that feeling of compulsion where we're not even thinking about what we're doing, just automatically doing it. I find that if I take the time to stop and analyze what I'm doing, then I'll make a better choice. But when I'm tired/stressed/emotional/whatever, I don't have the mental energy to stop and analyze what I'm doing... I just do it automatically like a robot. If only my compulsions were for things like carrots. :P

Daniel Amen talks about this kind of thing in his brain health books... I should look that up again and see what he says about addressing it.

In The Power of Habit Duhuigg talks about his habit of going for a cookie every day at 3PM. When he finally analyzed it, what he was actually craving was a break from work to go to the cafeteria to chat with his colleagues. I used to have a sour jujube craving every afternoon, but I discovered that it was the same thing for me - I just needed a mental break from the office. I'm not implying that it's the same for everyone, but it's still worthwhile to break down why you think the chips, chocolate, whatever is going to satisfy you in that moment.
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby Dstew » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:25 am

I cannot remember the study but I believe that somewhere around 90 % of "diets" will fail within a year or two. One reason is as noted, your lose weight, reduce your calorie intake and then the body does not need as many calories so once the "goal" has been reached, one eats more and ... repeat. From the research I did and personal experience, success does not come from a "diet" but a permanent change in eating and exercise patterns and habits that will be permanent and can be sustained for an indefinite period of time. I was fortunate in that my eating habits had become so terrible that minor changes combined with things I could continue on with in a permanent manner had instant results. At the very least, go for a 10 - 15 minute walk first thing in the mourning after a 12 hour "fast". Buy 6 oz steaks instead of 10. This in turn encouraged me to continue down that path. Look at all of the ads for every weight lose program out there - lose 5 pounds or 10 pounds within some sort period of time and that is definition of success. So one loses their ten or twenty or however many pounds, they have crossed the finish line and it is not a matter of will power or character but physiological factors that they cannot or will not continue with what lost them those pounds. I love cookies so rather than cutting them out completely, I limited my daily intake and attempted to switch to slightly healthier versions.

The one thing that might be "will power" but maybe even more just accurately is to monitor yourself. I lost over 40 pounds and put a goal of even more. I was slowly working my way down but the methods of was doing were "cheating" and I could not continue that forever. So a few pounds got added. Then a few more. Then a stressful work situation arose and a few more. I caught the issue before it went too far but I do believe this is a race without a finish line and so one has to stop and evaluate where they are.

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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby IronColl » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:43 pm

La wrote:In The Power of Habit Duhuigg talks about his habit of going for a cookie every day at 3PM. When he finally analyzed it, what he was actually craving was a break from work to go to the cafeteria to chat with his colleagues. I used to have a sour jujube craving every afternoon, but I discovered that it was the same thing for me - I just needed a mental break from the office. I'm not implying that it's the same for everyone, but it's still worthwhile to break down why you think the chips, chocolate, whatever is going to satisfy you in that moment.


Exactly. The why underneath the behavior is important to know so you can make better decisions about what works and what doesn't. I know I need to eat more and it seems the natural thing to do would be just to do it, but it's hard for me. Another option is to log to make sure I eat enough but that ends up having the opposite effect. I know the why but I don't know what to fo about it. So even though you may have the why, it can still be hard to move forward from there.
If all that you read is everything you believe then let go, then let go, then let go.

Nothing will change if you never choose.

2018 goals: May half marathon, September half marathon

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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby La » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:51 pm

Just came across this great article about metabolic rate. Lots of great links to scientific studies.

https://examine.com/nutrition/is-my-slo ... ight-loss/
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby deerdree » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:31 pm

La wrote:Just came across this great article about metabolic rate. Lots of great links to scientific studies.

https://examine.com/nutrition/is-my-slo ... ight-loss/

nice summary. i've got the 'cold exposure' part down pat these days. :lol:

i really need to work on building muscle mass.

one thing that's not clear to me...and wasn't even when the issue of the biggest loser effect first hit the media...these articles (and the studies) are saying that if you lose weight too quickly, your RMR will be lower than the 'natural' level (which i'm assuming is the level it should be for someone who hadn't gained and lost weight to reach that point). but if you lose weight at a reasonable pace, i.e., not biggest loser style, you won't have that issue. but what's a reasonable pace? the standard 2 pounds/week advice?

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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby La » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:39 pm

deerdree wrote:
La wrote:Just came across this great article about metabolic rate. Lots of great links to scientific studies.

https://examine.com/nutrition/is-my-slo ... ight-loss/

nice summary. i've got the 'cold exposure' part down pat these days. :lol:

i really need to work on building muscle mass.

one thing that's not clear to me...and wasn't even when the issue of the biggest loser effect first hit the media...these articles (and the studies) are saying that if you lose weight too quickly, your RMR will be lower than the 'natural' level (which i'm assuming is the level it should be for someone who hadn't gained and lost weight to reach that point). but if you lose weight at a reasonable pace, i.e., not biggest loser style, you won't have that issue. but what's a reasonable pace? the standard 2 pounds/week advice?

I didn't interpret it that way. The way I understood it (and I could be wrong) wasn't just about the speed you lost it at, but the total percentage of body fat you lost. The more people lost (regardless of the speed), the bigger the hit to your RMR. Or maybe it's a combination of both. I mean, would we see a difference between the person who lost 100 pounds over the period of 1 year versus 2 years?
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby La » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:46 pm

And here's a NYT article on Decision Fatigue:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magaz ... tigue.html
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

deerdree
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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby deerdree » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:12 pm

La wrote:
deerdree wrote:
La wrote:Just came across this great article about metabolic rate. Lots of great links to scientific studies.

https://examine.com/nutrition/is-my-slo ... ight-loss/

nice summary. i've got the 'cold exposure' part down pat these days. :lol:

i really need to work on building muscle mass.

one thing that's not clear to me...and wasn't even when the issue of the biggest loser effect first hit the media...these articles (and the studies) are saying that if you lose weight too quickly, your RMR will be lower than the 'natural' level (which i'm assuming is the level it should be for someone who hadn't gained and lost weight to reach that point). but if you lose weight at a reasonable pace, i.e., not biggest loser style, you won't have that issue. but what's a reasonable pace? the standard 2 pounds/week advice?

I didn't interpret it that way. The way I understood it (and I could be wrong) wasn't just about the speed you lost it at, but the total percentage of body fat you lost. The more people lost (regardless of the speed), the bigger the hit to your RMR. Or maybe it's a combination of both. I mean, would we see a difference between the person who lost 100 pounds over the period of 1 year versus 2 years?

here's the part i don't get: "If you’ve dieted sensibly, your RMR should return to normal when you resume eating enough calories to equal your TDEE" - so that's my question, what's 'sensible'?

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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby IronColl » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:15 pm

Also the use of "should".
If all that you read is everything you believe then let go, then let go, then let go.

Nothing will change if you never choose.

2018 goals: May half marathon, September half marathon

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La
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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby La » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:54 pm


Here's the Pubmed abstract on the concept of ego depletion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20565167
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright

IronColl
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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby IronColl » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:40 pm

I finally have the book to flip through.
If all that you read is everything you believe then let go, then let go, then let go.

Nothing will change if you never choose.

2018 goals: May half marathon, September half marathon

deerdree
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Re: "The Secret Life of Fat"

Postby deerdree » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:07 pm

La wrote:

Here's the Pubmed abstract on the concept of ego depletion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20565167

Thanks for that. I tracked down the full article but found it hard to get through the jargon. But the methods are solid!


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