Hot running (newish) Momma's thread...

[pts]

Just to be more clear, here is an example of an alternative, condensed (the actual argument probably went on much longer):
Me: John, it is time for bed
John: No!
Me: Do you want to walk up the stairs, or have a piggy-back?
John: No walk! No piggy back!
Me: Do you want to go upside down up the stairs?
John: Upside down please!

The goal, John in bed, is accomplished. I don't care that he gets there upside down.

That's exactly what I meant. You took the argument away from walking up the stairs or not - which could have gone on forever, to a happy solution for everyone. I'll have to remember that! Sometimes I'll do it with hide and seek - I'll play for a few minutes then hide in the bed so Timmy has to find me there. It's not the most direct route, but it gets him there.

Oh ya, we do that too, and often 'race' up the stairs or to see who can get PJs on fastest. But at the same time, G is now at an age where I expect that if I explain why he has to do something (like, it is time for bed so you have energy tomorrow to do these fun things), he should be able to question it (so, why does sleeping make me have energy in the morning), but in the end he should understand it and eventually it will be less of a struggle. I give him choices about it (teeth before bath or teeth after, what PJs etc) but at the end of the day, I am at the point where I think explaining things helps reinforce why it is important for them to do something. I always figure if there is no good explanation (it is just 'because I said so') then it is not worth even arguing about. I feel that better prepares them for decisions when you are not around (so, the reason I am only having one cookie at grandmas is because they are not the best choice to make me big and strong... etc).

M on the other hand- I am all ears, I am so out of my league with her...

[IronColl]

Just to be more clear, here is an example of an alternative, condensed (the actual argument probably went on much longer):
Me: John, it is time for bed
John: No!
Me: Do you want to walk up the stairs, or have a piggy-back?
John: No walk! No piggy back!
Me: Do you want to go upside down up the stairs?
John: Upside down please!

The goal, John in bed, is accomplished. I don't care that he gets there upside down.

That's exactly what I meant. You took the argument away from walking up the stairs or not - which could have gone on forever, to a happy solution for everyone. I'll have to remember that! Sometimes I'll do it with hide and seek - I'll play for a few minutes then hide in the bed so Timmy has to find me there. It's not the most direct route, but it gets him there.

It's funny, because Alex responds completely differently to most things. Timmy never responded to time outs - he just laughed and ran away (unless I held him) so we've had to be more creative with discipline. If I tell Alex to sit in time out, he actually does it! This was revolutionary to me and was quite the surprise the first time that I noticed him waiting for me to tell him to go.

Goal accomplished = happy mommy and happy kid!

I try really hard to start with the options, and, not the goal...i.e. - How do you want to get up to your room? Walking or being carried?

I don't think that is always the best way to approach things. Think into the future when the child is at school and the teacher is asking them to do something. The answer of "no" to a teacher isn't going to result in a myriad of options.

IMO this is a fancier way of the child not listening, and manipulating the situation to get their way. What's wrong with saying "because I said so" or "because that is the way it is" in an explanation? I realize this sounds harsh but firstly, I think we all have been manipulated by our children because secondly, they are smart smart creatures (and way smarter than we think).

ETA-pts I like your thinking! Providing reasons does give understanding.

[Irongirl]

Just to be more clear, here is an example of an alternative, condensed (the actual argument probably went on much longer):
Me: John, it is time for bed
John: No!
Me: Do you want to walk up the stairs, or have a piggy-back?
John: No walk! No piggy back!
Me: Do you want to go upside down up the stairs?
John: Upside down please!

The goal, John in bed, is accomplished. I don't care that he gets there upside down.

That's exactly what I meant. You took the argument away from walking up the stairs or not - which could have gone on forever, to a happy solution for everyone. I'll have to remember that! Sometimes I'll do it with hide and seek - I'll play for a few minutes then hide in the bed so Timmy has to find me there. It's not the most direct route, but it gets him there.

It's funny, because Alex responds completely differently to most things. Timmy never responded to time outs - he just laughed and ran away (unless I held him) so we've had to be more creative with discipline. If I tell Alex to sit in time out, he actually does it! This was revolutionary to me and was quite the surprise the first time that I noticed him waiting for me to tell him to go.

Goal accomplished = happy mommy and happy kid!

I try really hard to start with the options, and, not the goal...i.e. - How do you want to get up to your room? Walking or being carried?

I don't think that is always the best way to approach things. Think into the future when the child is at school and the teacher is asking them to do something. The answer of "no" to a teacher isn't going to result in a myriad of options.

IMO this is a fancier way of the child not listening, and manipulating the situation to get their way. What's wrong with saying "because I said so" or "because that is the way it is" in an explanation? I realize this sounds harsh but firstly, I think we all have been manipulated by our children because secondly, they are smart smart creatures (and way smarter than we think).

ETA-pts I like your thinking! Providing reasons does give understanding.

I actually don't use "because I said so" as a reason/instruction.

I expect my child to be able to ask questions and question authority. Just like I hope she's able/willing to question the pedophile that says "because I said so" as a reason to molest her.

I know that sounds harsh and extreme, but, it's also discussed a lot in the book.

It's a definite shift in thinking, and, one that I sometimes feel I shouldn't bring up, until I re-read the book and can better explain myself.

[IronColl]

Just to be more clear, here is an example of an alternative, condensed (the actual argument probably went on much longer):
Me: John, it is time for bed
John: No!
Me: Do you want to walk up the stairs, or have a piggy-back?
John: No walk! No piggy back!
Me: Do you want to go upside down up the stairs?
John: Upside down please!

The goal, John in bed, is accomplished. I don't care that he gets there upside down.

That's exactly what I meant. You took the argument away from walking up the stairs or not - which could have gone on forever, to a happy solution for everyone. I'll have to remember that! Sometimes I'll do it with hide and seek - I'll play for a few minutes then hide in the bed so Timmy has to find me there. It's not the most direct route, but it gets him there.

It's funny, because Alex responds completely differently to most things. Timmy never responded to time outs - he just laughed and ran away (unless I held him) so we've had to be more creative with discipline. If I tell Alex to sit in time out, he actually does it! This was revolutionary to me and was quite the surprise the first time that I noticed him waiting for me to tell him to go.

Goal accomplished = happy mommy and happy kid!

I try really hard to start with the options, and, not the goal...i.e. - How do you want to get up to your room? Walking or being carried?

I don't think that is always the best way to approach things. Think into the future when the child is at school and the teacher is asking them to do something. The answer of "no" to a teacher isn't going to result in a myriad of options.

IMO this is a fancier way of the child not listening, and manipulating the situation to get their way. What's wrong with saying "because I said so" or "because that is the way it is" in an explanation? I realize this sounds harsh but firstly, I think we all have been manipulated by our children because secondly, they are smart smart creatures (and way smarter than we think).

ETA-pts I like your thinking! Providing reasons does give understanding.

I actually don't use "because I said so" as a reason/instruction.

I expect my child to be able to ask questions and question authority. Just like I hope she's able/willing to question the pedophile that says "because I said so" as a reason to molest her.

I know that sounds harsh and extreme, but, it's also discussed a lot in the book.

It's a definite shift in thinking, and, one that I sometimes feel I shouldn't bring up, until I re-read the book and can better explain myself.

Your child questions authority and doesn't like the explanation. Then what? Is authority supposed to bend their way of approach to accomodate the child? The child is making the rules now?

I'm thinking in terms of the teacher example not the pedophile.

I think I am getting what you are trying to say. Using the bedtime example, we explain to our kids why sleep is important (etc) and that it is bedtime. Our approach is different because of instead of making a game of bedtime if they don't want to go, we put our foot down and say things that if they don't go to bed now then tomorrow there is no TV after school. Then they have the choice to go to bed and have TV tomorrow or make a fight of it, end up in bed anyway and get no TV.

[toobusy]

Prats:

I stopped having kids because I only had two arms. There has been more then one occasion that I had to pick one up under each arm and leave a place. Anyone who is going to judge, well their opinion is worthless. IMO. Lots and lots of people have had to do it. I explained a few times that we stopped at two 'cause you aren't allowed to herd kids with your feet.

Sometimes, 'cause I said so had better be good enough. I am MOM. They have to learn that there isnt always an explanation, or time for a discussion, it just has to happen this way. You can always explain better later. I have seen people have length explanations with toddlers - who don't understand or give a hoot 'why' really when the answer is just NO or STOP

[toobusy]

Your child questions authority and doesn't like the explanation. Then what? Is authority supposed to bend their way of approach to accomodate the child? The child is making the rules now?

I'm thinking in terms of the teacher example not the pedophile.

think I am getting what you are trying to say. Using the bedtime example, we explain to our kids why sleep is important (etc) and that it is bedtime. Our approach is different because of instead of making a game of bedtime if they don't want to go, we put our foot down and say things that if they don't go to bed now then tomorrow there is no TV after school. Then they have the choice to go to bed and have TV tomorrow or make a fight of it, end up in bed anyway and get no TV.

exactly. Teaching them about people who are hurting them or doing wrong is not the focus here. It is 'how do I get through the day without strong arm-ing my kids to do EVERYTHING'

[Irongirl]

I get all that, I really do.

And, yes, there are times when no is no, or other things of the like.

The approach that this book/method supports doesn't have your child listening to you from the get go, it takes time and energy to get to the point of cohesiveness.

And, for goodness sake, I don't think that I'm there yet....but, I know that when we work really hard at following a lot of the advice from that book, our lives (everyone in our family) are better and things are smoother.

So, I hope I don't come across as "I have all the answers" because if you've been with me and my kids, you'd see that I definitely don't have all the answers, but, I have a philosophy that is working well for our family.

I hope that when my child's teacher requests that she does something, she does it because she understands that it's the right thing to do - because the request isn't from left field. If the request is from left field, then, yes, I expect her to question it.

[toobusy]

II hope that when my child's teacher requests that she does something, she does it because she understands that it's the right thing to do - because the request isn't from left field. If the request is from left field, then, yes, I expect her to question it.

This I agree with - I guess the thing is that 'question' is different then 'defy' which is what you are trying to deal with at this stage.

If you 'kick a little bum' now - then you shoulnt have to do it later when the stakes are a lot higher.

For those that freak out by the above - I don't necessarily mean it literally

[Irongirl]

II hope that when my child's teacher requests that she does something, she does it because she understands that it's the right thing to do - because the request isn't from left field. If the request is from left field, then, yes, I expect her to question it.

This I agree with - I guess the thing is that 'question' is different then 'defy' which is what you are trying to deal with at this stage.

If you 'kick a little bum' now - then you shoulnt have to do it later when the stakes are a lot higher.

For those that freak out by the above - I don't necessarily mean it literally

or, if you force your child into their carseat now and they accept it, then maybe they'll accept their 16 year old boyfriend forcing them into the backseat of the car.

It's just two different schools of thought - both which may or may not work.

[toobusy]

II hope that when my child's teacher requests that she does something, she does it because she understands that it's the right thing to do - because the request isn't from left field. If the request is from left field, then, yes, I expect her to question it.

This I agree with - I guess the thing is that 'question' is different then 'defy' which is what you are trying to deal with at this stage.

If you 'kick a little bum' now - then you shoulnt have to do it later when the stakes are a lot higher.

For those that freak out by the above - I don't necessarily mean it literally

or, if you force your child into their carseat now and they accept it, then maybe they'll accept their 16 year old boyfriend forcing them into the backseat of the car.

It's just two different schools of thought - both which may or may not work.

That's pretty extreme. You said above 'because she understands that it is the right thing to do' - you're not planning to teach her the 'wrong thing to do'?

[Jwolf]

II hope that when my child's teacher requests that she does something, she does it because she understands that it's the right thing to do - because the request isn't from left field. If the request is from left field, then, yes, I expect her to question it.

This I agree with - I guess the thing is that 'question' is different then 'defy' which is what you are trying to deal with at this stage.

If you 'kick a little bum' now - then you shoulnt have to do it later when the stakes are a lot higher.

For those that freak out by the above - I don't necessarily mean it literally

or, if you force your child into their carseat now and they accept it, then maybe they'll accept their 16 year old boyfriend forcing them into the backseat of the car.

It's just two different schools of thought - both which may or may not work.

That's pretty extreme. You said above 'because she understands that it is the right thing to do' - you're not planning to teach her the 'wrong thing to do'?

Children aren't really capable of learning all moralistic decisions like this; sometimes it's the "right thing to do" because a trusted authority figure tells them too. That's where relationships with trusted adults (like parents, caregivers, teachers, etc.) become so important. As well as routines and scripts.

A small child won't necessarily go through the thought process, "Sitting in a carseat is the right thing to do, because If I'm in an accident I will be less likely to get injured or killed." But if Mommy and Daddy always put the child in the carseat, to them it's the "right thing to do."

Similarly, children need to learn the routines and schedules of the classroom; some things aren't necessarily "right vs. wrong" but "the way we need to do things to keep things running smoothly."

[FishPants]

Some things get an explaination. Some things get a "because I said so". It depends on the situation and the mood.

I explain that we have to sit in a carseat to "be safe". It turns into a "because I said so" if there is a fight. I am not going to bend or make it a game. Some things are non-negotiable.

How one gets up the stairs to bed, which toothbrush to use (racecar or purple?) or which toothpaste are choices I give, and games I will make. I also am letting John pick his own clothes, which today resulted in sweatpants paired with a button-down shirt. I try to give him as many choices as I can, so that I am not just bossing him around all the time, and he feels he has some control over his day.

Also, my methods work for me and my kid. They might not work for you or your kid. They might not work for me and my second kid! I do tons of improvisation, changing my approach, and experiment, experiment, experiment. I am also guilty of yelling some days. It happens.

My ultimate goal is independant, polite adults, who are functioning members of society. Only time will tell if I am getting it mostly right.

[pts]

II hope that when my child's teacher requests that she does something, she does it because she understands that it's the right thing to do - because the request isn't from left field. If the request is from left field, then, yes, I expect her to question it.

This I agree with - I guess the thing is that 'question' is different then 'defy' which is what you are trying to deal with at this stage.

If you 'kick a little bum' now - then you shoulnt have to do it later when the stakes are a lot higher.

For those that freak out by the above - I don't necessarily mean it literally

or, if you force your child into their carseat now and they accept it, then maybe they'll accept their 16 year old boyfriend forcing them into the backseat of the car.

It's just two different schools of thought - both which may or may not work.

That's pretty extreme. You said above 'because she understands that it is the right thing to do' - you're not planning to teach her the 'wrong thing to do'?

Children aren't really capable of learning all moralistic decisions like this; sometimes it's the "right thing to do" because a trusted authority figure tells them too. That's where relationships with trusted adults (like parents, caregivers, teachers, etc.) become so important. As well as routines and scripts.

A small child won't necessarily go through the thought process, "Sitting in a carseat is the right thing to do, because If I'm in an accident I will be less likely to get injured or killed." But if Mommy and Daddy always put the child in the carseat, to them it's the "right thing to do."

Similarly, children need to learn the routines and schedules of the classroom; some things aren't necessarily "right vs. wrong" but "the way we need to do things to keep things running smoothly."

Can you expand on that? So, if I am saying 'carseats keep you safe' is that better than 'I told you to.'? I agree that children are not capable of moral logic but as I understand it, my 3yo is capable of potential consequence (so- if we are in a crash you would be hurt if you were not in your seat, then to explain further- 'mommy loves you and it is my job to keep you safe'). I mean, eventually you come to a 'because you have to' (I use for those ones "This is not negotiable, I have to keep you safe/healthy/protected). I understand that impulse overrides understanding in a lot of kids (Gavin who runs sometimes!), but when I stop and discuss it with him, he is 'capable' (as I get it) of understanding- "IF I run in the street, I could get hurt."

Just asking for your expert opinion on the 'logic' (ha, logic?) of the three year old mind!

My toddler is more in the 'I want' stage- I would use distraction with her but she is not really that easily distracted!

Edited to add- and that trust that mommy is 'right' about him maybe being hurt is what makes him believe it to be true.

[Jwolf]

Haha- I'm no expert, and I don't even have training other than on-the-job at daycare (I was a "daycare assistant", not an ECE-trained teacher). Certainly not all three-year-olds are even going through the same thought-process either.

It sounds like you're doing it all pretty well, Erin.

For sure-- I don't mean that the answer is "I told you so"... or "Because mommy says so..."... but sometimes it is "right" because they are being told by a trusted adult.

In the case of the car seat "for safety" or "because it helps keep you safe", etc. is part of the whole process for sure.

Mostly I was commenting on not necessarily expecting a child to question every routine or request made by a teacher if it didn't necessarily seem like it was "right." For some more compliant kids, it's "right" because the teacher is asking. That's not necessarily a bad thing and doesn't mean the kid is going to end up thinking all adults are right.

In daycare we would use language like "It's important to put your boots on before we go outside" if a child was resistant-- without necessarily going into a lot of detail about the explanation. Maybe it wasn't actually raining out and boots weren't absolutely needed by every child, but in general we'd just do it as a routine. Not all the children would be expected to put boots on at home if it wasn't a super wet day, but for some, listening to their teachers ask them was enough to get them to put them on. As we'd go through the routines, sometimes kids would say "why", and we'd say, "boots help keep your feet warm and dry..." Eventually it just became routine, and I'm not sure if the little guys really thought each time "I am putting my boots on to keep my feet warm and dry" -- but I'm SURE they knew that they couldn't go outside without them.

And yes, we would eventually say, "I'll help you" or "lets do it together" and move the process along to get all the children out. Sometimes that would mean actually doing it for them, but from a position of helping rather than forcing. In cases of more extreme safety, if something needed to be done quickly, sometimes firmer language and actions were needed. "It's important to hold hands while crossing the street," and take the child's hand. The compliant ones in general stay with the teacher or hold hands, mostly because "that's what we do", not because they are logically worried about getting hit by a car.

[Kristi]

Some things get an explaination. Some things get a "because I said so". It depends on the situation and the mood.

I explain that we have to sit in a carseat to "be safe". It turns into a "because I said so" if there is a fight. I am not going to bend or make it a game. Some things are non-negotiable.

How one gets up the stairs to bed, which toothbrush to use (racecar or purple?) or which toothpaste are choices I give, and games I will make. I also am letting John pick his own clothes, which today resulted in sweatpants paired with a button-down shirt. I try to give him as many choices as I can, so that I am not just bossing him around all the time, and he feels he has some control over his day.

Also, my methods work for me and my kid. They might not work for you or your kid. They might not work for me and my second kid! I do tons of improvisation, changing my approach, and experiment, experiment, experiment. I am also guilty of yelling some days. It happens.

My ultimate goal is independant, polite adults, who are functioning members of society. Only time will tell if I am getting it mostly right.

This is a pretty good summary of my approach as well. I use whatever technique fits the situation and try not to argue when it's not necessary. I also have a tendency to not want any part of a strict philosophy on anything. I strongly believe that there is no right way to parent - it depends on the kids and the parents.

I love John's clothing choices! Timmy has already gone to school with his pants on backwards a couple of times, but he did it himself, so who I am to argue with him??

[FishPants]

So last night John got crabby and upset and we thought he had to poop, but he refused to sit on the potty. Dan gave him a diaper (I wasn't impressed, but his logic is we don't want to make him scared of the potty and undo all the work we have done). John just got more and more upset. Turns out, he had a fever (and was probably upset with the yukky feeling leading up to it), so he got his pull-up and bed (Which he asked for). He's still sleeping.

I am happy it was not a potty-training setback, but feel bad for the poor dude! And we are skipping preschool today, which means no run for me.

[eme]

Every time I hear about potty training, I say a quiet little thank you to the DCP I had when my son was potty training (this was over 15 years ago). Honestly, she did all the hard work and I just had to maintain at home.

She was awesome.

Good luck to all of you potty training your little ones, may the end of diapers/pull-ups be in your near future!

[FishPants]

Good luck to all of you potty training your little ones, may the end of diapers/pull-ups be in your near future!

This is only the first one! Diapers until about 2016 here...

[eme]

Good luck to all of you potty training your little ones, may the end of diapers/pull-ups be in your near future!

This is only the first one! Diapers until about 2016 here...

Yeah, but you keep making very cute kids, so we thank you for your suffering

[Engmomma]

Truism in parenting.

One day they will go potty on their own.
One day they will stop wanting their pacifier.
One day they will give up the bottle or boob.
One day they will stop wetting the bed.
Every child is different and needs to be parented differently.
Every parent is different and how they parent is right for them.
Always trust your instinct. You know your child best.



Parenting is never perfect. You can only do your best as you know how. No book or other parent will know your child like you do.

[pts]

Truism in parenting.

One day they will go potty on their own.
One day they will stop wanting their pacifier.
One day they will give up the bottle or boob.
One day they will stop wetting the bed.
Every child is different and needs to be parented differently.
Every parent is different and how they parent is right for them.
Always trust your instinct. You know your child best.



Parenting is never perfect. You can only do your best as you know how. No book or other parent will know your child like you do.

You need to put that on a fridge magnet and send it to new parents!

[toobusy]

Truism in parenting.

One day they will go potty on their own.
One day they will stop wanting their pacifier.
One day they will give up the bottle or boob, unless they are boys.
One day they will stop wetting the bed.
Every child is different and needs to be parented differently.
Every parent is different and how they parent is right for them.
Always trust your instinct. You know your child best
.

Fixed that for you

[Jo-Jo]

Truism in parenting.

One day they will go potty on their own.
One day they will stop wanting their pacifier.
One day they will give up the bottle or boob.
One day they will stop wetting the bed.
Every child is different and needs to be parented differently.
Every parent is different and how they parent is right for them.
Always trust your instinct. You know your child best.



Parenting is never perfect. You can only do your best as you know how. No book or other parent will know your child like you do.

You need to put that on a fridge magnet and send it to new parents!

That's great!!
I'm a non parent but I highly doubt most parents get up in the morning and say to themselves..."now what can I do today to ruin my child and turn them into a miserable, defiant, out of control adult" I suspect not many you do this.

[Engmomma]

Truism in parenting.

One day they will go potty on their own.
One day they will stop wanting their pacifier.
One day they will give up the bottle or boob, unless they are boys.
One day they will stop wetting the bed.
Every child is different and needs to be parented differently.
Every parent is different and how they parent is right for them.
Always trust your instinct. You know your child best
.

Fixed that for you

hahahaha....took me a minute....

[FishPants]

And we have hit the stubborn stage of potty training. "NO PEE FOR ME!" He even got one of Damon's diapers and wanted to wear it, but I said no, those were Damon's, and we have no more diapers with a 5 on them.

That said, only one accident today and one hold-it-for-hours-to-be-stubborn pee on the potty.

It probably doesn't help that while he was sick, we let him wear a pull-up. I have used the "You don't want to pee on Francesco!" motivation today.