Who thinks Lance could win at Kona?

[jonovision_man]

I will not hide my Livestrong tattoo....

Ouch!

jono

[Wu wei]

Read the specific affidavits (third tab on the top):

http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/

[Wu wei]

I love you man. The cancer shield defense just doesn't cut it with me.

So someone put me on to this thread today only to read pages and pages of comments that give me two impressions:

1- There are indeed people out there who just LOVE to surround themselves with negativity. They seem to spend more time saying hurtful things and enjoy every minute of it. They thrive on the downfall of others...perhaps it makes them feel better....better at life in general, better at pulling the carpet out from underneath others, better at, quite honestly being bitter. Zero sensitivity to those around who perhaps took a bit away from the legacy you so easily denounce with a slight smirk!

2-Having been for a number of years, THE LA FAN of RM, I bow to the awesomeness of others....you know who you are. You seem to know Lance better than, well, frankly LA himself. You posy as if YOU were there when he took his drugs, you saw him ingest it....you pushed the syringe in for him. I feel ashamed that I was posting on RM as a HUGE LA fan, but alas, I knew nothing. Hidden behind the two LA aficionados the board now has, are two people who obviously know the inner circle. Did they work for Postal at one point? Perhaps they used to work at Mellow Johnny's shop and saw emails no one else has seen. I suggest that is Cycling news wants to put the cherry on top of this story, they should read this thread for the REAL, unbiased "proof" that Lance was a cheat.
Cheat or no cheat, I will proudly wear my Livestrong colours...I will not hide my Livestrong tattoo....all while enjoying my happiness filled life helping others cope with cancer rather than living in a negative, hatred filled existence that some are so obviously doing.
In the mean time....read this, to see what that evil man has done to others

http://howsbrian.com/2012/08/how-lance-and-livestrong-totally-screwed-me/

[jonovision_man]

So someone put me on to this thread today only to read pages and pages of comments that give me two impressions:

1- There are indeed people out there who just LOVE to surround themselves with negativity. They seem to spend more time saying hurtful things and enjoy every minute of it. They thrive on the downfall of others...perhaps it makes them feel better....better at life in general, better at pulling the carpet out from underneath others, better at, quite honestly being bitter. Zero sensitivity to those around who perhaps took a bit away from the legacy you so easily denounce with a slight smirk!

2-Having been for a number of years, THE LA FAN of RM, I bow to the awesomeness of others....you know who you are. You seem to know Lance better than, well, frankly LA himself. You posy as if YOU were there when he took his drugs, you saw him ingest it....you pushed the syringe in for him. I feel ashamed that I was posting on RM as a HUGE LA fan, but alas, I knew nothing. Hidden behind the two LA aficionados the board now has, are two people who obviously know the inner circle. Did they work for Postal at one point? Perhaps they used to work at Mellow Johnny's shop and saw emails no one else has seen. I suggest that is Cycling news wants to put the cherry on top of this story, they should read this thread for the REAL, unbiased "proof" that Lance was a cheat.
Cheat or no cheat, I will proudly wear my Livestrong colours...I will not hide my Livestrong tattoo....all while enjoying my happiness filled life helping others cope with cancer rather than living in a negative, hatred filled existence that some are so obviously doing.
In the mean time....read this, to see what that evil man has done to others

http://howsbrian.com/2012/08/how-lance-and-livestrong-totally-screwed-me/

We were all duped, my friend. I was a Lance fan too! I loved those years, and at the time it seemed that Lance was the clean guy. In fact while there were a lot of positives, there seemed at the time to be a lot of guys you could believe were clean...

Sadly, it was not what it appeared. I would rather know the truth. And after seeing what harm Lance has done to so many people I won't make apologies for taking a certain amount of delight in his plight today.

jono

[TheBman]

WuWie...wow...par for the course on your intelect no doubt.
Jono...no friend of mine, but I see your point.
Let me ask you this.....who do you look up to that we would all know Jono/Wuwei?

[Wu wei]

They seem to spend more time saying hurtful things and enjoy every minute of it. They thrive on the downfall of others...perhaps it makes them feel better....better at life in general, better at pulling the carpet out from underneath others, better at, quite honestly being bitter.

Just read this again... sounds EXACTLY like Lance!

[jonovision_man]

Jono...no friend of mine, but I see your point.
Let me ask you this.....who do you look up to that we would all know Jono/Wuwei?

Let me ask you this - why would you look up to someone you don't truly know? How do you truly know their character, rather than just the glossy image they put out there?

And to be frank, I outgrew having heros when I was about 8 years old, now I simply admire certain qualities about certain people without concerning myself about looking "up" to their entire self. Everyone has flaws. I, for example, spend too much time on this thread.

jono

[TheBman]

Wow....now it makes more sense....after figuring out who this TROLL WuWIzzle is.....sneaky guy changes his name to sneak by those who already have wasted time on him before.

Same "guy" who called me out on how much money I have raised over the years for cancer and questioned the ethics of my efforts....then hid and changed his screen name when I asked him to prove it!!!!
WOW...had me for about 4 minutes there Wuwinkle.

I retract this debate as now I see who is behind it.

Jono...agree to disagree....but appreciate the fact that you are at least educated in your replies and do not simply throw out allegations that have no merits. Wu...well....
Bman

[Wu wei]

Bman.., never questioned the ethics of your fundraising, but the ethics of supporting doping in sport.

I did question the motivation of your fundraising. You identify yourself so strongly as a cancer victim... it's a bit frightening really.


Anyways... more confessions Zabriski, VdV, Danielson:

[url]http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13038/Garmin-Sharp-and-its-riders-comment-on-their-parts-in-USADA-investigation.aspx
[/url]

[jonovision_man]

Anyways... more confessions Zabriski, VdV, Danielson:

[url]http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13038/Garmin-Sharp-and-its-riders-comment-on-their-parts-in-USADA-investigation.aspx
[/url]

What happens to their stage wins and results I wonder?

The UCI should just reinstate all results from that era, stick a giant asterix on all of them and move on...

jono

[Joe Dwarf]

There are notes about bank payments to Ferrari, emails, a mass of testimony, etc.
And you're concerned about their "tone"?

Yup. They are supposed to be a neutral organization, aren't they? A report like that should have a certain dry, factual tone about it, not a slant that is basically "rah, rah, we caught him." I mean, comparing USPS team to the Mafia?

[jonovision_man]

What happens to their stage wins and results I wonder?

Oops, it's here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/six-for ... from-usada

Leipheimer accepted a suspension from Sept 1 and was disqualified from results from June 1999 to July 30, 2006, and from July 7 to July 29 2007.

Hincapie accepted a suspension from September 1 and disqualification from results from May 31, 2004 to July 31, 2006.

Vande Velde accepted a suspension from September 9 and disqualification from results from June 4, 2004, to April 31, 2006.

Zabriskie accepted a suspension from September 1 and disqualification from results from May 31, 2003 to July 31, 2006.

Danielson accepted a suspension from September 1 and disqualification from results from March 1, 2005 to Sept 23, 2006.

Barry accepted a suspension from September 10 and disqualification from results from May 13, 2003 to July 31, 2006.

6 month bans brings them back in time for the spring races...

jono

[ian]

They are supposed to be a neutral organization, aren't they?

This is one of the reasons that it's important that this evidence is aired out. Just as LA stands to have his denials rendered untenable, the USADA also seems to have a fair bit of reputation at stake if their allegations turn out to be overstated or their motivations unprofessional.

[Wu wei]

There are notes about bank payments to Ferrari, emails, a mass of testimony, etc.
And you're concerned about their "tone"?

Yup. They are supposed to be a neutral organization, aren't they? A report like that should have a certain dry, factual tone about it, not a slant that is basically "rah, rah, we caught him." I mean, comparing USPS team to the Mafia?

You don't follow cycling much do you? The word "Omerta" is commonly used in the cycling world and has been for a LONG time. USADA is just using the word that everyone else uses.

BTW, if anyone was wondering if Lance was racing triathlon clean.... I just read the affidavit with actual emails between Lance and Stefano Ferrari (Michele's son) discussing his triathlon "training plan" for this year.

[Joe Dwarf]

You don't follow cycling much do you? The word "Omerta" is commonly used in the cycling world and has been for a LONG time. USADA is just using the word that everyone else uses.

My error on that point. But I still take issue with the tone of their communications.

[Wu wei]

You don't follow cycling much do you? The word "Omerta" is commonly used in the cycling world and has been for a LONG time. USADA is just using the word that everyone else uses.

My error on that point. But I still take issue with the tone of their communications.

The tone isn't the problem for Lance and company... it's the content.

[Dstew]

You don't follow cycling much do you? The word "Omerta" is commonly used in the cycling world and has been for a LONG time. USADA is just using the word that everyone else uses.

My error on that point. But I still take issue with the tone of their communications.

The tone isn't the problem for Lance and company... it's the content.

You do not see the irony in all of your recent posts do you. EVERYONE was cheating and so you seem to be upset not that Lance cheated and won but that he was smarter about it to create just enough doubt and that he turned his success into even more money and publicity whereas most of his rivals are dumb jocks that are good at riding a bike and with no useful or transferable skills.

You also seem to be upset and acting out because now that even that doubt is gone, people are still willing to use Lance to help promote good causes.

Lance is bad, we all get it. Lance is now banned from competing as a professional and we all get that. But where you are going to lose all support and respect is by saying here is someone who regardless of the motivation is doing good. The problem is, what have the other cheaters of that era, that is all of the riders it seems have done to the benefit of society. Your very weak counter is that Lance profited from that and the answer is so what. How should Lance be hounded more because he did something that helps others and made money and the dumb jocks wasted their money as most dumb jocks do and benefited no one. Explain to me how others who have done nothing for anyone else a "hero" when because they were caught are now willing to testify.

When you get cancer, when you know someone close who has cancer or died from it, come back and spout off about how Lance should be banned from raising money and awareness. Easy to sit behind your keyboard and have all of this bizarre outrage. It might help if you explain why this visceral hate. I would swear Lance touched you in your special place by how much blind rage you have if I did not know better.

To simplify, Lance cheated, Lance lied about the cheating, Lance won, Lance translated that winning into a whole lot of money for him and publicity but if even by mistake, he also ended up helping out and doing a lot of good. So roast Lance for the cheating, the lying, take away his wins and prevent him from competing but it goes beyond strange to also say he should be banned from helping society because he was doing something that everyone else was doing but he was just better at not being caught until now.

[Jwolf]

Be careful Dave. I'm pretty sure Greg knows what it's like for someone close to him to have cancer.

[Jo-Jo]

I've been avoiding posting on this thread (actually I think I did post once many pages ago) but here's how I feel (like it really matters )

In the summer of 2004 due to some health stuff I was working a reduced work schedule. I used to go over to a friend's who had a baby and was on Mat Leave...and we'd sit and watch the TDF in the afternoon. I was a relatively new runner then. And to be honest the TDF had never even hit my radar screen until those lazy afternoons hanging out with Evan and Sue. I was inspired by Lance and his team.
Inspired enough that I got this crazy idea that I at 51 I could train for a Marathon and run Boston. I phoned a friend who was an Elite IM athlete and told him my dream and asked for his help. He said yes...I ran a Marathon...and then I ran Boston.

Do I think Lance cheated and doped...well the evidence does seem overwhelming.
Am I disappointed by this: yes.


But I'll admit...I still think back to those days of watching TDF 2004 and getting so inspired by this guy who had beat cancer and gone on to great cycling feats with fondness.

Call me stupid...call me naive...I'm glad Lance inspired me...because I got motivated to go after one of my dreams. And as circumstance would have it...Lance was on the Boston 2008 course when I was...mind you...he did run a tad faster

I have no idea why Lance Armstrong has refuted all these accusations. I'm not sure it's really important that I try and figure it out. I think it's more important that he figures it all out for himself.

[drghfx]

I've been avoiding posting on this thread (actually I think I did post once many pages ago) but here's how I feel (like it really matters )

In the summer of 2004 due to some health stuff I was working a reduced work schedule. I used to go over to a friend's who had a baby and was on Mat Leave...and we'd sit and watch the TDF in the afternoon. I was a relatively new runner then. And to be honest the TDF had never even hit my radar screen until those lazy afternoons hanging out with Evan and Sue. I was inspired by Lance and his team.
Inspired enough that I got this crazy idea that I at 51 I could train for a Marathon and run Boston. I phoned a friend who was an Elite IM athlete and told him my dream and asked for his help. He said yes...I ran a Marathon...and then I ran Boston.

Do I think Lance cheated and doped...well the evidence does seem overwhelming.
Am I disappointed by this: yes.


But I'll admit...I still think back to those days of watching TDF 2004 and getting so inspired by this guy who had beat cancer and gone on to great cycling feats with fondness.

Call me stupid...call me naive...I'm glad Lance inspired me...because I got motivated to go after one of my dreams. And as circumstance would have it...Lance was on the Boston 2008 course when I was...mind you...he did run a tad faster

I have no idea why Lance Armstrong has refuted all these accusations. I'm not sure it's really important that I try and figure it out. I think it's more important that he figures it all out for himself.

Geez, I'm glad your friend didn't have WWE wrestling on TV. I can only imagine what crazy ideas you would have gotten from that!

[Jo-Jo]

I've been avoiding posting on this thread (actually I think I did post once many pages ago) but here's how I feel (like it really matters )

In the summer of 2004 due to some health stuff I was working a reduced work schedule. I used to go over to a friend's who had a baby and was on Mat Leave...and we'd sit and watch the TDF in the afternoon. I was a relatively new runner then. And to be honest the TDF had never even hit my radar screen until those lazy afternoons hanging out with Evan and Sue. I was inspired by Lance and his team.
Inspired enough that I got this crazy idea that I at 51 I could train for a Marathon and run Boston. I phoned a friend who was an Elite IM athlete and told him my dream and asked for his help. He said yes...I ran a Marathon...and then I ran Boston.

Do I think Lance cheated and doped...well the evidence does seem overwhelming.
Am I disappointed by this: yes.


But I'll admit...I still think back to those days of watching TDF 2004 and getting so inspired by this guy who had beat cancer and gone on to great cycling feats with fondness.

Call me stupid...call me naive...I'm glad Lance inspired me...because I got motivated to go after one of my dreams. And as circumstance would have it...Lance was on the Boston 2008 course when I was...mind you...he did run a tad faster

I have no idea why Lance Armstrong has refuted all these accusations. I'm not sure it's really important that I try and figure it out. I think it's more important that he figures it all out for himself.

Geez, I'm glad your friend didn't have WWE wrestling on TV. I can only imagine what crazy ideas you would have gotten from that!

-5 beers "meanie"

[Dstew]

Be careful Dave. I'm pretty sure Greg knows what it's like for someone close to him to have cancer.

So then I really do not get it. The Good Lance did for whatever reason is still GOOD. No one here is saying that his cheating should allow him to keep his titles or be able to compete as a professional. List off another 20 cheats who say Lance cheats and the Livestrong Foundation has still made a positive difference and people want it to continue to do so. Lance has been found guilty and stripped of everything that he can be striped of so if even a tainted and guilty Lance can do some good, why the fuss about that? No one is even saying he should be forgiven or to forget what he did to win and so there is no cancer shield. What people are saying, again, is if this guy can do good, let him do good. To stop someone from helping because they will not admit their guilt over a professional bike race would seem to be completely misplaced priorities and something someone who knows how devastating cancer is would advocate.

[Mark.AU]

Be careful Dave. I'm pretty sure Greg knows what it's like for someone close to him to have cancer.

Who hasn't?

[La]

5 years ago, when I was reading Lance's book, I was inspired. It was a hero's story of climbing to the top of cycling and also beating cancer.

Now, since I believe about the drugs and perhaps the drugs caused the cancer, his book can't be a truthful story. So, Lance inspired me then; now, I'll choose another inspiration.

I agree with you Spirit. I have always quietly and secretly wondered if the doping CAUSED his cancer. I never said it out loud until I read it somewhere that the things he was into in the 90's could defintely make him more susecptible to certain types of cancer - including testicular cancer.

I always believed that to be the case (doping pre-cancer, which caused his cancer). I never expected that he would continue to dope post-cancer, considering how close to death he was. Guess I was wrong.

I quite liked this article from the National Post: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/10/ ... g-anymore/

[Jo-Jo]

5 years ago, when I was reading Lance's book, I was inspired. It was a hero's story of climbing to the top of cycling and also beating cancer.

Now, since I believe about the drugs and perhaps the drugs caused the cancer, his book can't be a truthful story. So, Lance inspired me then; now, I'll choose another inspiration.

I agree with you Spirit. I have always quietly and secretly wondered if the doping CAUSED his cancer. I never said it out loud until I read it somewhere that the things he was into in the 90's could defintely make him more susecptible to certain types of cancer - including testicular cancer.

I always believed that to be the case (doping pre-cancer, which caused his cancer). I never expected that he would continue to dope post-cancer, considering how close to death he was. Guess I was wrong.

I quite liked this article from the National Post: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/10/ ... g-anymore/

thanks for posting the article...I think it's a good one.