Speeding Up for a Half

An environment where you can be open & frank about your quest for speed

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Lnbrock
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Speeding Up for a Half

Postby Lnbrock » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:53 am

Looking for some advice about gaining speed and improving my half marathon time. Did my first this year at 2:17:30, and I'm not completely happy with that. I didn't train as hard as I could have, thanks to some injuries and poor weather and other general life stuff, so I'm pretty sure I could have come in under 2:15 if it weren't for all that. However, I would really like to complete a Half under 2 hours. Can I make this happen? - what does the training schedule need to look like? I don't have a particular race in mind at this point, so I've got all the training time in the world, whether you're recommending 6 weeks or 10 or more! I would also really like to run only 3 days a week...too many other commitments to be able to log much more than that.

Other background: I do a lot of heavy weight training (eg: squat 250), I also try to go to hot yoga at least once a week. My current 10k PR is 1:01:42 (which I would like to bring under 1 hour this year), and 5k is 29:35 (which I would like to bring down to 28 this year).

Thanks for any advice you can give!!
Lindsey

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ian
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby ian » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:57 am

Welcome to RM. Where are you located?

Most running goals are possible, especially if you're willing to be consistent with the training and patient with the results. Given that you have expressed goals for 5K, 10K, and 21K races, it might be useful to note the following comparison:

A 2:00 half marathon = 54:44 for a 10K race = 26:22 for a 5K race (Jack Daniels VDOT 36)

You'll find it easier to do 5K and 10K races on a regular basis (there are more of them, they're usually cheaper, and they don't require as much recovery as half marathons), and the time equivalencies above will give you a rough idea about when you are getting closer to sub-2 shape.

Next: a training plan. On 3 days a week, the progress is going to be very gradual, therefore you probably want to think in terms of an indefinite plan, rather than one for a fixed number of weeks. Your three runs will be:
(1) A long run, at an easy pace. Coming off a recent half marathon, you can probably start this in the 10-15K range.
(2) A fast run. I'd suggest about a 10 minute warmup, 20 to 30 minutes at your 10K pace, and then a 10 minute cooldown.
(3) An easy run. About half of your long run.

If the schedule ever allows for an extra run, add another easy run. If you have a 5K or 10K race on a weekend, this becomes your fast run and your other runs that week are easy runs. Every few weeks, if all is going well, you can add a couple of extra K to the weekly total. Spring is a great time to get into a nice training rhythm that will carry through the rest of the year.

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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby Irongirl » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:00 pm

what I'd add to Ian's post is that the "easy" pace of your long run should be 45 second - 1 min/km slower than your "fast" pace in your fast run.

I firmly believe that the SLOW run is what helps people speed up - as long as they are doing the fast run as well.

I also believe that it's these different paced runs that are going to make a big difference.

a 1:01 10 is a little over 6 min/km pace. A 2:00 half marathon is a 5:41/km pace - at twice the distance....so, you definitely have some work ahead of you......I'd start with a goal of under 2:15, then, under 2:10 and not necessarily think directly to the 2:00 goal
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Lnbrock
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby Lnbrock » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:29 pm

Thanks for your replies, Irongirl and Ian.

I typically do 1 or 2 5k races and 3 or 4 10k races throughout the summer/fall, so I will definitely be using those as a progress test. Since I don't have a specific race in mind, I do plan on doing as you said, Irongirl, and having mini-goals in between. And this is definitely a long-term goal: I don't even anticipate reaching the 2:00 goal this year necessarily, much as that would be awesome. I'm thinking more in terms of 1-2 years from now.

In terms of pacing, I have found the pace calculator at McMillian Running (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/) to be quite interesting. Has anyone ever used this, or something similar, to plan training paces?

I'm located in Calgary, which is great for long slow runs with a bit of grade...but I'll have to wait a few more months before I can do much speedwork/tempo runs outside, simply due to poor footing and weather conditions.

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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby turd ferguson » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:51 pm

Lnbrock wrote:I'm located in Calgary, which is great for long slow runs with a bit of grade...but I'll have to wait a few more months before I can do much speedwork/tempo runs outside, simply due to poor footing and weather conditions.


Dude, the pathways between Centre Street and Edworthy are clear and bare. Meet monday at Eau Clair and we'll run you till you puke. Then we'll run some curling club stairs.

Just kidding. Welcome to RM.

Let us know when you're racing - a bunch of us are doing Police Half, Calgary Marathon, Stampede Half. High River is also a good one.
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams

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ian
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby ian » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:11 pm

Lnbrock wrote:In terms of pacing, I have found the pace calculator at McMillian Running (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/) to be quite interesting. Has anyone ever used this, or something similar, to plan training paces?

Yes. These calculators can be quite useful for translating the results of races at one distance to those at another, as well as to determine training paces. I used something similar (details in white text in my original post) to provide the race conversions, and given your current speed, tempo runs at 10K pace are almost perfect. If you already run with a Garmin watch, the exact details of the training paces are useful. If you just have a simple stopwatch (as I do), it is fine to run by perceived exertion: your easy runs should allow you to be able to talk, in short sentences, to another person, while your fast runs will involve deeper, more frequent, and rhythmic breathing.

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jamix
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby jamix » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:50 pm

Other background: I do a lot of heavy weight training (eg: squat 250), I also try to go to hot yoga at least once a week. My current 10k PR is 1:01:42 (which I would like to bring under 1 hour this year), and 5k is 29:35 (which I would like to bring down to 28 this year).


I agree with Irongirl that this would require a lot of work given your PRs. Not saying its impossible, but unless your capable of making big adaptations fast, this'll likely have to be a multi-year goal. In the meantime, why not try to break the 1-hour barrier for the 10km 8)
2013 GOALS:

- Compete in the "Early Bird Sprint Triathlon" in May
- Run a 5km pb during the "Bushtukah Canada Day Road Race"
- Complete an Olympic distance triathlon
- Cycle > 33 km / hr during the cycle portion of a Sprint Triathlon.
- Stay healthy and happy

Races

April 28th: Manotick 10km (40:16)
May 18th: Ottawa Early Bird Sprint Triathlon (DNF)
June 8th: Riverkeeper SuperSprint (2nd overall)
July 1st: Bushtukah Canada Day 5km (18:37)

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carm
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby carm » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:48 pm

Yes, definitely make it a multi-year goal. It's a good one! If you train hard and effectively, you can shave off 10 minutes no problem. I ran my first 1/2 (T.O. Waterfront) in fall 2010 in 2:05, did a 1:58 in spring 2011 (BMO Vancouver) and a 1:55 in spring 2012 (Scotia Montreal). It's all about improving your fitness and finding a nice balance between a faster speed and not getting injured. I have all my 1/2 training (except for last year) running 3x a week plus triathlon training so you'll be fine with that frequency imo. If you can manage to do an extra run a week some weeks, you'll benefit from it. I usually do 1 long run, 1 tempo run and 1 easier/moderate shorter run as was suggested above. I've found tempo runs to be quite effective because that pace lines up well with my 1/2 m pace.

Good luck and welcome to RM!
Carm

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dgrant
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby dgrant » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:03 pm

Welcome and good luck with your goals.

One thing that jumps out - but is a personal choice of priority that only you can make - is that it's tough to make improvements on 3 runs/week... and heavy weightlifting won't help and will likely hinder running progress. If running goals become a high priority, you'd do well to consider replacing weightlifting sessions with more runs. Squats are great, but there's very little crossover benefit for distance running.

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Joe Dwarf
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby Joe Dwarf » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:22 am

+1 to dgrant - lifting and running are at odds with each other. I made a conscious choice a few years ago to focus on running due to getting hurt lifting. IMO you may be better off focusing on the shorter distances.

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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby ultraslacker » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:04 am

I've not much to add to the great advice so far, but wanted to say Welcome to RM! :)
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

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carm
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby carm » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:22 pm

If you want to keep a strength program in place, you may want to incorporate functional strength and mobility work instead of conventional weight lifting. That type of strength work does complement your running, mostly through injury prevention and increased mobility of problem areas and if done properly, it doesn't negatively impact your runs since the workouts don't generally make you sore once you have a base. Just my 2 cents after doing a few one-on-one sessions with a local strength and conditioning trainer who's an ultra runner.
Carm

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Joe Dwarf
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby Joe Dwarf » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:29 pm

Well squats are very functional lifts but you might want to change the way you are doing them (unless you are already doing them differently than most). Trying to squat as heavy as you can not so good for running, squatting to develop explosive movement better. Full range of motion ("ass to grass") and light enough weight to be able to accelerate hard off the floor is the way I was taught - mind you this was oriented towards combat sports. Not sure if any runners other than sprinters and hurdlers use squats.

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MichaelMc
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby MichaelMc » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:32 am

Good advice so far.

On the squats, they are an excellent base to have for runners, and heavier is better IMO. As others have said, it is a challenge to continue them as your running increases and if your goals are primarily running for now I would sacrifice them in favor of more running. For advanced runners heavy squat sessions with low reps is in vogue, as Alberto Salazar is a big fan of this for distance runners. It could be that his runners recover from workouts better than average, and can use them effectively in a program.

I like Ian's training program sketch: a little faster work, a little longer work, and the balance of the running easy paced to allow a gradual increase in weekly mileage. Better to get in a consistent 3 days per week than 2 days some weeks and 4 days others; habits can be good!

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La
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby La » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:44 am

If you are running three days and doing hot yoga one day, what are you doing the other three days?

I've successfully trained for many half marathons on three runs a week, but the rest of the week is typically cross training with cycling (i.e., getting the aerobic workout without the pounding on my body).

I went from a 2:32 half to a 1:59 half - but that took me 9 years! :lol: For me, the biggest improvements came by losing weight*. I am much lighter today than I was when I ran my first half in '99.

I saw the biggest gains early on: I went from 2:32 to 2:13 in one year. After that, I chipped away to get to 2:10. The next big jumps came when I got to 2:06, then two years later finally broke 2 hours. I've run sub-2 three times, but even after I did it the first time (in '08) I didn't run every half sub-2. I had a few 2:01-2:03 finishes in there. My last half was a year ago and that's my current PB: 1:59:12. I'm training for the Ottawa half this year and hope to better that time.

*Losing weight allowed me to run faster with less effort, which allowed me to train faster, which helped me race faster.
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Stampie
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Re: Speeding Up for a Half

Postby Stampie » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:23 am

First off, welcome to RM!

There has been a lot of good advice given here and lots to ponder over.

ian wrote:Most running goals are possible, especially if you're willing to be consistent with the training and patient with the results.

I think Ian hit the mark here. When I've attempted to be consistent with my training, then I start to see the results I'm looking for. It certainly does not come up overnight. For me, it was almost like it was exponential. I would see slow progression and then all of a sudden I started noticing bigger differences. Case in point, two years ago (this weekend as a matter of fact) I ran my first 5K race in 29:17. I ran that hard and felt I left it all out on the course. Last year I ran that same in 26:20 and just about 6wksago I did a 5k time trial in 24:48. This is certainly attributed to my training goals and sticking to the plan and it certainly helps that I now have a stronger base under my belt. I went from a 2:01:50 in my first half to 1:54:16 in my most recent half I did last month.

ian wrote:If the schedule ever allows for an extra run, add another easy run. If you have a 5K or 10K race on a weekend, this becomes your fast run and your other runs that week are easy runs. Every few weeks, if all is going well, you can add a couple of extra K to the weekly total. Spring is a great time to get into a nice training rhythm that will carry through the rest of the year.

There is truth to this. When I went from 3 to 4 runs per week, I started noticing some progression too. My schedule tends to look like this: long run, rest day, recovery/easy run, tempo/speed work, rest, easy/steady state longer run and rest day.

Also, what Irongirl has to say about the long run and easy pace is a key point. That was something that took me time to figure out. There is no shame in running 10 & 1’s in training. I followed that same principle in my first full and I truly enjoyed my experience.

My only comment with the McMillan calculator is to be cautious. It can be aggressive for some runners and can assume that you have a solid base to work from. Now that I have a more solid base to work from, I find the times indicated from 5K to the half are relatively bang on for me. I now use the training tools McMillan provides as a guide to improving my half times.

Good Luck!
PB’s (official race results)
5K – 26:20; 8K – 41:28; 10K – 52:13; 15K - 1:22:43; 21.1K – 1:54:16; 30K – 2:51:34; 42.2K – 4:24:14

What is up for 2018
Feb 11th - First Half Vancouver
TBA
Planning & in my sights
Jun 9th - Puddle Jumper Classic

Run the mile you're in. Not the one behind you, and not the one in front of you - the one you are running now :) - purdy65


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