Buying your performance on the bike!!

[jamix]

Thanks Andy and Carm. I think for now I'm not going to make anymore purchases, since I've spent a lot and its unclear right now if I'm going to be entering any sanctioned / certified triathlons this year (ie non-Somersault events).

Though Carmen, I'd love to see your pedals sometime when we meet up for the group ride in Gatineau park!

[Jwolf]

30% sounds like way too much for my scientific mind.

I can't say that I expect to be faster right away but I can say that I love my new clipless pedals. I feels so much smoother and easier and I don't know why I took so long to make the switch. I already had MTB shoes that I put the cleats on, so I didn't have to buy cycling shoes.

[HCcD]

Thanks Andy and Carm. I think for now I'm not going to make anymore purchases, since I've spent a lot and its unclear right now if I'm going to be entering any sanctioned / certified triathlons this year (ie non-Somersault events).

Though Carmen, I'd love to see your pedals sometime when we meet up for the group ride in Gatineau park!

If you are climbing in the Gats, better hope that you don't ever have to stop going up, for whatever reason, as it is kinda of a pain to try to start moving again with toe clips/cages ... so much easier to push in when you have one foot clipped into to the pedal with the other foot pushing off to get you moving again ....

[carm]

Thanks Andy and Carm. I think for now I'm not going to make anymore purchases, since I've spent a lot and its unclear right now if I'm going to be entering any sanctioned / certified triathlons this year (ie non-Somersault events).

Though Carmen, I'd love to see your pedals sometime when we meet up for the group ride in Gatineau park!

I have the same ones on my road bike so that's a possibility. There's no way I'd ride my hybrid in the Gats. I'm not that much of a sucker for punishment.

[La]

Clipless pedals at MEC are $45-55, depending on which pedal system you buy:
http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Cycling/P ... -pedal.jsp

Basic shoes are $79: http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Cycling/F ... s-mens.jsp

Like Carla, I can't imagine having an aero helmet and not having clipless pedals and proper cycling shoes.

Cages = thing you put your water bottle in
Toe clips = things on standard pedals (with or without straps) that you put your feet in

[Jwolf]

Been riding year round & sort of competing since 2003. No clipless for this guy... faster to bail out if one gets into trouble....

So that's why you gave me those other ones way back when. I never used them but I passed them on to a very grateful recipient.

The first time I used them I was surprised at how easy they are to clip out.

[Sir Crashalot]

Been riding year round & sort of competing since 2003. No clipless for this guy... faster to bail out if one gets into trouble....

So that's why you gave me those other ones way back when. I never used them but I passed them on to a very grateful recipient.

The first time I used them I was surprised at how easy they are to clip out.

Funny as this may sound, I can't remember who I donated the 2nd clipless set (off the Ridley) to....

[Sir Crashalot]

Been riding year round & sort of competing since 2003. No clipless for this guy... faster to bail out if one gets into trouble....

Your forum name does not inspire much confidence in your opinion of flat pedals.

My first cyclocross race ever was in Sept 2003. We passed over this same tree root on every lap. Just could not get over that tree root ... at all... crashed there at every lap ... don't know why.... Fast forward to current times & I still can't manage to stay upright during a 'cross race... just got to live up/down to the name

[tonyP]

Wu wei wrote....

"..Tires and tubes are VERY under-rated!!!! Switching to a fast rolling tire and latex inner tubes is HUGE.
I ride Continental GP4000S with Vittoria latex.
Might save as much Watts as an aero wheelset for a fraction of the price...."

Wu wei, could you elaborate on the Latex tube - do you like Vittoria especially, or is it latex vs the butyl that makes the difference? I see that MEC has the Conti GP4000S at $72 each - where do we get the latex tubes?

Thanks,

Tony

[Wu wei]

It's the latex. It's more supple than the butyl... doesn't absorb energy.. something like that. They also flat less.
However, you have to be very careful when installing and inflating them (from flat) so that you don't pinch the latex, especially with tire levers.
They also leak air a bit faster... so you have to inflate before every ride.

I get all my tires and tubes from ProBikeKit. If you have deep wheels you'll need to get latex tubes with removable valve core to put on some valve extenders, which are harder to find.

[tonyP]

OK, last question (for now, hahaha),

I have tried to compare the Conti GP4000S with what they put on my Zipp 404's - Michelin Pro 3 Race - no luck - any thoughts?

Again, thanks.

[Mark.AU]

What do you mean by compare?

[tonyP]

I was thinking to compare the rolling performance or resistance.

I didn't realize there was difference in rolling resistance between various tires and tubes. I thought the only difference was that 'race' tires would be lighter.

Cheers,

[Mark.AU]

Assuming all else is equal, the Michelin Pro 3 Race is the faster tire by roughly 3W.

One source - http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf

[Wu wei]

Assuming all else is equal, the Michelin Pro 3 Race is the faster tire by roughly 3W.

One source - http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf

That was true in 2010 when that testing was done. Conti 4000S is now faster.

Tom Anhalt has a good blog with lots of tire testing stuff.
http://bikeblather.blogspot.ca/

[Mark.AU]

Assuming all else is equal, the Michelin Pro 3 Race is the faster tire by roughly 3W.

One source - http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf

That was true in 2010 when that testing was done. Conti 4000S is now faster.

Tom Anhalt has a good blog with lots of tire testing stuff.
http://bikeblather.blogspot.ca/

Since when is a Crr of 0.00336 faster than a Crr of 0.00257?

[Wu wei]

You can't compare the Crr numbers since the testing protocols are different.
The 4000S tested faster using the same protocol.

"Update 04/14/13:
The guys at Flo were nice enough to send me the Michelin Pro4 Service Course tire used in the aero testing above and so I got a chance to run it on the rollers. The resultant Crr was .0043. They also sent the Continental GP4000S used in their testing and it rolled identically to my own version of that tire at .0034."

The Michelin Pro4 SC is a faster tire (Michelin says so) than the old Pro3 Race.

[jamix]

I haven't posted here in awhile since the conversation moved to the effects of different tubing / wheel combinations, but all this is pretty interesting! I bought Spinergy Stealths awhile back but not sure what type of tubing it has

I'll be sure to give ProBikeFit a go for buying latex tubing and wider 23mm wheels next time

[Wu wei]

I haven't posted here in awhile since the conversation moved to the effects of different tubing / wheel combinations, but all this is pretty interesting! I bought Spinergy Stealths awhile back but not sure what type of tubing it has

I'll be sure to give ProBikeFit a go for buying latex tubing and wider 23mm wheels next time

Unless you specifically buy latex... you'd be using butyl. You can tell latex tubes because they are never black... mine are pink and green!

I just bought a set of Kinlin XC279 rims built up with Sapim CX-ray spokes and some decent hubs for $500 and around 1510g for the build.
23mm wide, 28mm deep.Fairly round (instead of V shaped) for good handling in cross winds.
Just as aero as deeper rims up to about 8 degrees of yaw.
Good all round wheelset for road, CX and I'll use the front wheel with my disc for tri.

[jamix]

I haven't posted here in awhile since the conversation moved to the effects of different tubing / wheel combinations, but all this is pretty interesting! I bought Spinergy Stealths awhile back but not sure what type of tubing it has

I'll be sure to give ProBikeFit a go for buying latex tubing and wider 23mm wheels next time

Unless you specifically buy latex... you'd be using butyl. You can tell latex tubes because they are never black... mine are pink and green!

I just bought a set of Kinlin XC279 rims built up with Sapim CX-ray spokes and some decent hubs for $500 and around 1510g for the build.
23mm wide, 28mm deep.Fairly round (instead of V shaped) for good handling in cross winds.
Just as aero as deeper rims up to about 8 degrees of yaw.
Good all round wheelset for road, CX and I'll use the front wheel with my disc for tri.

Are latex tubes always better regardless of wheels used?

[Wu wei]

Are latex tubes always better regardless of wheels used?

Yes. Unless the wheels are tubeless of course.

There is a convenience/cost factor. I carry butyl tubes as spares as they are 1/3 of the price, and more durable to abuse in my patch kit.

[jamix]

Are latex tubes always better regardless of wheels used?

Yes. Unless the wheels are tubeless of course.

There is a convenience/cost factor. I carry butyl tubes as spares as they are 1/3 of the price, and more durable to abuse in my patch kit.

Thanks Wu wei, I guess latex tubing will be next on the bucket list of items to purchase!

[Wu wei]

Are latex tubes always better regardless of wheels used?

Yes. Unless the wheels are tubeless of course.

There is a convenience/cost factor. I carry butyl tubes as spares as they are 1/3 of the price, and more durable to abuse in my patch kit.

Thanks Wu wei, I guess latex tubing will be next on the bucket list of items to purchase!

Just take your time installing them! Use your thumbs to get the tire on if you can. Be careful with levers... I have used them, but I have tight rims and take my time.
And if the tire is dead flat, pump it up to 10-15psi, check around the entire rim to make sure the tube isn't pinched, THEN inflate to full psi.
And make sure you rim tape is in good condition.
At $15-18 each... they are not a cheap flat. You can't patch them like butyl either.

[jamix]

Are latex tubes always better regardless of wheels used?

Yes. Unless the wheels are tubeless of course.

There is a convenience/cost factor. I carry butyl tubes as spares as they are 1/3 of the price, and more durable to abuse in my patch kit.

Thanks Wu wei, I guess latex tubing will be next on the bucket list of items to purchase!

Just take your time installing them! Use your thumbs to get the tire on if you can. Be careful with levers... I have used them, but I have tight rims and take my time.
And if the tire is dead flat, pump it up to 10-15psi, check around the entire rim to make sure the tube isn't pinched, THEN inflate to full psi.
And make sure you rim tape is in good condition.
At $15-18 each... they are not a cheap flat. You can't patch them like butyl either.

Use my thumbs! Measuring psi?? It really sounds like I'd have to have someone else install these things

[tonyP]

Hi,

So, I saw in here somewhere that rear wheel disc covers can be had for about $100 ish - that's a lot cheaper than a 'real' full disc rear wheel. Screw them in place, and they mimic the preformance of the disc wheel. The ones I saw were specific to the brand of wheel you're putting them on.

Questions (as usual... and I appreciate the collective wisdom here).

Crosswinds affect controllability for deep dish rims - moreso the front - is there a windspeed where you wouldn't take out a full rear wheel disc due to crosswind?

Anyone riding a rear wheel with covers? A bit of a pain when it comes to pumping up the tires - specially when I put in the latex tubes....

Thanks folks,

Tony