Has anyone used Run Less Run Faster?

by **Christine_Runs** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:08 pm

Hi,

I am considering starting with the beginner 5 k program and going from there. Last year I overdid it and developed a hip flexor issue. I have seen physio, ART and sports doc. I was told to start gentle and as soon as I did the pain came back and an old knee injury flared up, so I am thinking maybe this very gentle start might help although the idea of running this little and working through 3 5 k programs, 10 k program and then the 1/2 and full is painful just to think about as it is soon slow!

C

by **Jwolf** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:42 pm

I have the book-- the novice 5K program looks ok, but I prefer to progress through a modified run/walk program like in the Running Room books. I had success coming back from a bad injury a few years ago with a modified "Learn to Run" program. Unfortunately, I am currently recovering from another injury (three years later) I plan to do that modified Learn to Run plan when I'm ready to start running again in a few weeks (and I'd be happy to share it with you). Also, before you're ready to run/walk, you should make sure you can walk without pain.

The other 5K plans and the 10K plan in "Run Less, Run Faster" seem to progress pretty quickly-- I'm not sure how quickly you'd be ready for those, but I'd be cautious about reintroducing speed work until you build back a decent base. My current injury came from doing too much hard running without enough recovery between workouts. In general I find I do best with a small percentage of hard running and mostly easy miles; while I've considered those "Run Less, Run Faster" plans, I think for me they'd have too much hard running.

by **jamix** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:40 pm

Who says you have to think about half or full marathon programs ?

by **Christine_Runs** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:42 am

Hi JWolf,

Thank you for the info. I am definately being cautious. Their first program is 10 min walk, 1 min run/2 min walk x 4, 10 min walk. This is working so far...I tried doing 1 min run, 1 min walk for about 15 min and that did not work but yes I'd definately like to see what you used. As for speed work I agree caution is important. I'm really not sure what the best step after that will be.

Hi Jamix,

As for why the 1/2 and full? Basically because that is what I want to run. I ran several 25 k trail races last season and my plan was to train for 1 50 k race this season - which obviously isn't happening - but that is the goal. I live 2 hours from a major city so running short races in the city is silly as it is way too much driving to run for 1 hr or less. I prefer to run on trails. I love going long and quite frankly at this point I have pretty much no desire to run anything shorter than a 1/2 but clearly I can't do that right now so I'm going to have to progress like a tortise towards that end.

C

by **phorunner** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:59 am

I've read through it - and it sounds like it makes sense - do some intense cross training and cut out a run. From what I remember, the distances sounded reasonable too.

My sort of mentality is to keep informed, and to try stuff out (within reason) to keep things fun and new. There's usually a benefit to various forms of cross-training, so as long as you're not introducing a massive amount of wear and tear on your body, you should be ok.

Like running, start gradually and build. I know it's frustrating, but overuse injuries are the worst (and even MORE frustrating)

Then again, I'm not a trainer of any sort...

by **Jwolf** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:07 am

Christine- my back-to-run program started with 1-and-1 for 20 min so it was past where you were ready for. But I could already walk for quite a bit longer without pain.

My concern about the Run Less Run Faster book is that there's fast a progression in the beginner plan and too much of a jump from that to the other plans. As someone who also tends to be injury-prone, I look at those plans as potentially more injury-producing and not less.

by **scrumhalfgirl** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:28 am

Jwolf wrote:My concern about the Run Less Run Faster book is that there's fast a progression in the beginner plan and too much of a jump from that to the other plans. As someone who also tends to be injury-prone, I look at those plans as potentially more injury-producing and not less.

agree - if you are injury prone, all the hard running of the RLRF plans is probably a recipe for more trouble. If you're trying to go long, then you should up with lots of easy running with a gradual build. Sure, add in non-running cross-training to build up your cardio when you can't do as much running, but keep the running easy for the time being.

by **Christine_Runs** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:34 am

Hi JWolf,

I can walk fine without issue it is the running that is causing the issues? I do understand your point though about not ramping it up too quickly. I would not say that typically I am injury prone. I've ran on and off since the age of 7 or 8 and this is my first running related injury - it just is serious in the sense that while not super painful it doesn't seem to want to get better. The knee - which has done okay up until now with running -was the result of crashing into the boards at a high speed while skating. Unfortunately the hip injury while not severe seems to be very hard to get past and my knee - which hasn't caused me any problems running in the past except for the odd tiny niggle is really going crazy at the moment. I could definately run like this but I don't want to do anything that leads to pain as I figure it will only get worse. I do get your point that until I get a base I shouldn't be doing much speed work. There really is no speed work in the beginner 5 k. On that note, I can run fast (for short periods) without pain. Doing 1 min on/1 min off for 15 min at 5:30ish which is about my 10 k pace and felt very very comfortable while running caused pain after the run.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

Christine

by **Jwolf** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:53 am

You may not be overly injury-prone, but you do have some sensitive spots now that need some babying. I know the feeling! The problem is the scar tissue is always there and the body "remembers" the old injuries.

If you can walk for extended periods of time I think any gentle program will work to get you back. I'm just concerned about what comes next. Also don't get carried away and try to run too fast...

Christine_Runs wrote:Doing 1 min on/1 min off for 15 min at 5:30ish which is about my 10 k pace and felt very very comfortable while running caused pain after the run.

That sounds way too fast. When I started with the 1-minute run, 1-minute walk my run pace was still VERY easy- like 7:00/km and my 10k pace at the time before the injury was about 4:45/km. Even as I added more running minutes to the run/walk intervals, my average pace was much slower than my old paces while I was building back up. Do LESS than you think you can handle, adapt, and then build from there.

by **Christine_Runs** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:28 pm

Hi JWolf,

Your point about babying is certainly valid.

Thanks again for the info/feedback.

C

by **jamix** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:16 pm

Do LESS than you think you can handle, adapt, and then build from there.

+1

I would also gonna sugges just racing shorter distances for awhile, but I see you've already jumped on the long-distance wagon so.........just stick to 1/2 halfs if you can. Marathons are for people who want to remain slow

by **MichaelMc** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:50 am

Ok, I have to say it. Using a "Run less, run faster" program in an effort to increase your race distances is counter productive.

I've seen similar programs used successfully by triathletes who NEED to cross-train, and by other people who simply WILL do the cross-training anyway (aerobic instructors etc.), but the very core philosophy is less effective at producing endurance than a "Run more" program. Doesn't mean a person won't improve with such a program, just that their running will improve less than many other programs. The programs tend to have a higher injury incidence as well, due to the high percentage of speedwork in most of them.

by **Pat Menzies** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:03 am

I've never been able to figure out how people are unable to accumulate their race distance in weekly mileage yet expect to safely put it all together in just a few hours.

by **Dstew** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:41 pm

I did my own modifications but followed the basic principles to "sharpen" my running after a winter of "slow" runs that I used as a foundation. I qualified for Boston using that program and was continuing to improve until I suffered a stress fracture. I see it as a risk and reward type of program. You may be able to run less but it will be very hard and it will be hard on your body - why there are the rest days that they have and the low impact training.

I followed the philosophy for a couple of years after that: qualified for Boston again, won the season age category in some shorter trail races and finished top three and would have sworn by the program but when the wheels fell off, I did virtually no running for about a year.

Now that I am back on the marathon track, I am running more miles but much slower. My only speed work is to throw in a 15 K "marathon pace" - very conservative estimate with the predictors telling me I could run a 3:35 but the marathon pace is based upon a 4:00 marathon and I can report no injuries thus far. The running is a lot more enjoyable as I no longer panic when I hit a light or if I have gone too fast, I will take a walk break to lower the heart rate. It is also more enjoyable to see the environment around me rather than being fixated on my watch too see the pace I am running and the pavement 10 feet in front of me.

I suppose what I am saying is that from my personal experience, if you have a limited amount of time and do not mind pounding your body, the run less program [Furman First] can get results. But it seems to me that in exchange, one risks a greater chance of injury.

I should I that I still do weights. For me, weights seem to strengthen the core, etc and help me ward off injuries. Plus, a nasty and cold day, a little tired and sore, nothing wrong with 30-45 minutes on a elliptical instead. Listen to your body and be flexible cannot hurt.

by **LadyVo2** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:49 am

I did follow the "run less...run faster program" to train for a marathon and I also used the author's e-coaching.
The result (for me) was a BQ (that was my goal when I decided to follow the program). For my objective, the program did work.

That said, I don't think I will want to follow the program again - it was intense and sucked a lot of fun out of my running...you run less, but you run intense and focused all the time...

A lot of people say that the program does not work, but it is very often people who have not really tried it, or 'adapted' it, 'tweaked' it and so on. If you are going to follow the program, don't modify it, otherwise I don't see the point (just my 2 cents)