Running and Weight Loss (Nancy Clarke)

[La]

http://www.halhigdon.com/writing/55759/ ... ht&quot%3B

I saw this article linked on Twitter yesterday and read it on my commute home. I found the following points quite interesting:

Myth: If you train for a marathon or triathlon, surely your body fat will melt away.
Wishful thinking. If you are an endurance athlete who complains, “For all the exercise I do, I should be pencil-thin,” take a look at your 24-hour energy expenditure. Do you put most of your energy into exercising, but then tend to be quite sedentary the rest of the day as you recover from your tough workouts? Male endurance athletes who reported a seemingly low calorie intake did less spontaneous activity than their peers in the non-exercise parts of their day (4). You need to keep taking the stairs instead of the elevators, no matter how much you train. Again, you should eat according to your whole day's activity level, not according to how hard you trained that day.

I was thinking about this a lot as I was lying on the couch after my very challenging 60-min spin class last night. I know I've often used the excuse of, "Well, I just ran/biked X distance, I can just lie around the rest of the day." Or, "I have a tough workout coming up tomorrow, so I really should stay off my feet today."

And maybe those things are true from a pure training sense, but from a weight-loss perspective (for those of us who are trying to lose) it's really not a productive way of thinking.

[jes]

It's also partly what we're eating the rest of the day too (and in general). We need carbs to sustain all that crazy exercise, yet (at least for me) I didn't see any body composition changes until I dramatically reduced the amount of carbs I was consuming. While that was all well and good in between marathon cycles, it just wouldn't be feasible (for me) during.

For me, I've noticed a huge change in how the rest of my day after a long run goes since having Zack. Before Zack, I'd do my long run and then nap or hang out on the couch for a good chunk of the rest of the day. Now, when mommy gets home, she's 'on'. I sometimes fit in a nap when he does, but other than that, we're playing, chasing each other, and just being fools. I just don't get to veg like I used to

[purdy65]

I read this article with great interest.

I'm guilty of many of these things - ie naps, not doing much else outside of 'active' time of day.

I've always been leary of cutting back my miles because of fear of gaining weight, but then what that article said rang true - when you run less, you exert more energy during the non-exercise time of day, and many people actually LOSE weight. Made me really think about all I get accomplished when I actually run fewer K's on a Saturday or Sunday, for example.

[Jwolf]

I dunno; I've always gained weight when I cut back on running and lose weight when I'm doing high mileage. I am definitely more fit overall when I'm training at a higher volume level. I eat less when I'm exercising less but not less enough.

I also don't think that the type of calories matters as much as people think. When people cut carbs they tend to lose weight because they eat less- all my favourite foods are carb foods.

[La]

I dunno; I've always gained weight when I cut back on running and lose weight when I'm doing high mileage. I am definitely more fit overall when I'm training at a higher volume level. I eat less when I'm exercising less but not less enough.

I find that people fall into two camps: those who lose weight during marathon training and those who don't (or even gain). Based purely on observation and anecdotal evidence, the people who lose are generally those people who don't struggle to maintain their weight, are naturally thin, etc. Those of us who could stand to lose weight on a good day will often gain during training (or during taper).

I also don't think that the type of calories matters as much as people think. When people cut carbs they tend to lose weight because they eat less- all my favourite foods are carb foods.

I agree. Weight loss is about calories in vs. calories out. But the distribution of those calories will have an effect on feelings of satiety, which will affect how MUCH you eat (i.e., calories in). And measuring calories out is hard to do because the standard calculators are inherently flawed since they can't take each person's unique metabolism into account.

[bnn]

The only time I lost weight/changed body composition due to exercise changes was after ironman (stayed the same shape throughout ironman training). My volume of training went down to 45 - 60 minutes/day, and incorporated resistence training.

When I trained for IM and long distance running I gave myself permission to: eat more pasta and cream sauces (yum), breads and treats, always had naps after my long training days. So - no wonder!

[Irongirl]

This is not news to me.

I've gained 10 lbs for every marathon I've run. (And then lost it between marathons/Ironman)......

I know that weight loss and running long distances don't go together for me!

[BJH]

My personal experience is that 1) my food intake will adjust to my energy output and 2) if I have wide variations in energy output, it is harder to moderate intake.

The result is that my weight is lowest when my day to day exercise is consistent (1-2 hours per day).

[jamix]

Based on reading the above posts, I think the take home message is "everyone's different"

To provide another case-study;

Over any 15-20 month period, my weight will cycle between 160 and 185 lbs. While I'm losing the weight, I tend to be doing less exercise. With that said, doing "some" exercise vs "no" exercise probably results in my being 3-4 lbs lighter at any given time, but other than that it doesn't help and actually it likely even prevents weight loss that can potentially be achieved through other means. This is very important to me, because 3-4 lbs means nothing if I've put on 20-25 lbs!

I've gained 10 lbs for every marathon I've run. (And then lost it between marathons/Ironman)......

I know that weight loss and running long distances don't go together for me!

Hmmmm, sounds like training for a marathon / IM might actually be adding stress to your life

[Joe Dwarf]

Biggest problem is many overeat with the exercise as excuse. "I ran 5k, I can have donuts!" kind of thing.

[ratherawkward]

My challenge is that I need to work on figuring out the 'perfect' post-run meal for long run days so that I don't feel ravenous and consume everything in sight for the whole rest of the day.

[AjaxRunner]

I also don't think that the type of calories matters as much as people think. When people cut carbs they tend to lose weight because they eat less- all my favourite foods are carb foods.

I agree. Weight loss is about calories in vs. calories out. But the distribution of those calories will have an effect on feelings of satiety, which will affect how MUCH you eat (i.e., calories in). And measuring calories out is hard to do because the standard calculators are inherently flawed since they can't take each person's unique metabolism into account.

There is a relatively easy way around that.

I use an iphone app that logs food (in) and exercise (out), it also logs my daily weight. Do that for a month or two and you will start to see trends.

For me over-consumption leads to weight gain two days later. In general terms, it doesn't matter where my calories come from with regards to weight loss and gain. It does matter with regard to feeling of fullness etc

Timing of calories also has no effect on overall weight gain or loss. It does have some effect on perceived performance, though I sometimes wonder if that isn't more mental than anything.

[La]

I also don't think that the type of calories matters as much as people think. When people cut carbs they tend to lose weight because they eat less- all my favourite foods are carb foods.

I agree. Weight loss is about calories in vs. calories out. But the distribution of those calories will have an effect on feelings of satiety, which will affect how MUCH you eat (i.e., calories in). And measuring calories out is hard to do because the standard calculators are inherently flawed since they can't take each person's unique metabolism into account.

There is a relatively easy way around that.

I use an iphone app that logs food (in) and exercise (out), it also logs my daily weight. Do that for a month or two and you will start to see trends.

An iPhone app will only accurately log/track calories consumed if you take the time to weigh/measure everything (and enter it into the app). And I disagree that a generic app will be able to tell you how many calories you actually burned (that's what I meant about them being inherently flawed). Unless you are wearing a device like the Bodymedia Fit where it measures based on a sensor worn on your arm, it's always going to be an estimate.

For me over-consumption leads to weight gain two days later. In general terms, it doesn't matter where my calories come from with regards to weight loss and gain. It does matter with regard to feeling of fullness etc

Timing of calories also has no effect on overall weight gain or loss. It does have some effect on perceived performance, though I sometimes wonder if that isn't more mental than anything.

Yes, this is what I was saying.

[Joe Dwarf]

Unless you are wearing a device like the Bodymedia Fit where it measures based on a sensor worn on your arm, it's always going to be an estimate.

Everything is an estimate, even the calories for the food you enter. None of this stuff is bang-on accurate. But it's way better than nothing. Once you have a baseline, if you are not losing like the app thinks you should, just up your exercise or lower your food intake so that calorie differential increases. People who don't track usually have no clue what they are eating.

[La]

Unless you are wearing a device like the Bodymedia Fit where it measures based on a sensor worn on your arm, it's always going to be an estimate.

Everything is an estimate, even the calories for the food you enter. None of this stuff is bang-on accurate. But it's way better than nothing. Once you have a baseline, if you are not losing like the app thinks you should, just up your exercise or lower your food intake so that calorie differential increases. People who don't track usually have no clue what they are eating.

Oh, I know that - I track! I was just responding to AjaxRunner's claim that his method with the iPhone app was "a relatively easy way around that."

[AjaxRunner]

I also don't think that the type of calories matters as much as people think. When people cut carbs they tend to lose weight because they eat less- all my favourite foods are carb foods.

I agree. Weight loss is about calories in vs. calories out. But the distribution of those calories will have an effect on feelings of satiety, which will affect how MUCH you eat (i.e., calories in). And measuring calories out is hard to do because the standard calculators are inherently flawed since they can't take each person's unique metabolism into account.

There is a relatively easy way around that.

I use an iphone app that logs food (in) and exercise (out), it also logs my daily weight. Do that for a month or two and you will start to see trends.

An iPhone app will only accurately log/track calories consumed if you take the time to weigh/measure everything (and enter it into the app). And I disagree that a generic app will be able to tell you how many calories you actually burned (that's what I meant about them being inherently flawed). Unless you are wearing a device like the Bodymedia Fit where it measures based on a sensor worn on your arm, it's always going to be an estimate.

For me over-consumption leads to weight gain two days later. In general terms, it doesn't matter where my calories come from with regards to weight loss and gain. It does matter with regard to feeling of fullness etc

Timing of calories also has no effect on overall weight gain or loss. It does have some effect on perceived performance, though I sometimes wonder if that isn't more mental than anything.

Yes, this is what I was saying.

Yes I weigh and track everything. Drives my wife crazy. And I didn't mean to imply that the iphone was accurate in estimating calories out. However, when you use the same method contyinuously, you can recognize baselines and recognize the factor by which these apps are off. LIke anything important, it takes some dedication. There is no magic weight loss bullet and it is impossible to outtrain a bad diet.

In my lifelong struggle with weight, I have found one thing. The majority of weight loss is nutrition. You cannot just train yourself slimmer, it is just too easy to consume too many calories. Yes, this is a bit of a generalization.

[La]

We are agreeing on pretty much everything, other than the fact that it is easy!

You can't exercise your way out of a crappy diet.

Weight loss is 75-80% about diet and only 20-25% about activity/exercise.