Ok, might as well start the topic. I've been thinking about it all week.
Who's going? Mike? Sheldon? Midge? Rune? Anyone else?
It was on my maybe list in the spring, but then got shoved off to make way for a Labour Day triathon. Now I've broken my collarbone, and triing is out for the year, well, might as well do a trail race. I did the 25k last year. In the spring, I thought of doing the 50k which will be quite a run. Way more than the usual road marathon. But I've done 2 50k's this year, so why not up the ante and do the 50 miler? Half again more, but at a slower pace. This has everything to do with the broken bone. I've started walking, up to 3 hours, but not yet running. That will start next week, I hope. But I'm scared to death of running on trails so soon, because sometimes I fall, and I really really don't want to break that bone again. So I thought of running the forest roads at Haliburton, and just walking all the trails. That is so low-key compared to trying to run 50 miles, that I may be able to make it. And the race has a 13 hour cut-off for that distance. You don't have to go fast at all.
Comments?
Haliburton
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Doonst
- Abby Hoffman
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Its definitely been on my radar. I've heard good things. What can you tell me, about the 25 K course? Sorry about your collarbone Mike.
next up:
This broken wing will fly again
One fine day
This blackbird's mute gonna sing again
One fine day
So all you sinners come out
And all you drunkards crawl out
Come into the light of one fine day
This broken wing will fly again
One fine day
This blackbird's mute gonna sing again
One fine day
So all you sinners come out
And all you drunkards crawl out
Come into the light of one fine day
Well I did the 25k last year in 3:46. In comparison to road times, I did a 21k in 2:15, so that was about an hour and a half longer. My road marathon times were 4:40 and 4:18 last year. So I was glad I didn't sign for the 50k; it would have been a 8 hours ordeal. Luckily I went up there one weekend to run on the race venue, and found out about it.
The course for the 25k is about 1/3 gravel forest roads, and 2/3 track, usually mountain bike trails. Some quite technical, some easy. Lovely upland forest hardwoods. No bushwacking thru long grass or swamp. Lots of small steep hills to walk and catch your breath. But they are not continuous; you can run most of it. I saw Clark Zealand come floating down a hill at high speed that I was struggling up, and it's true, the fast people like him and Rune are in a different sport. Most of the 25k people were friendly first-timers, out for fun and challenge and a new experience. You can camp up there on the site if you want. Overall I liked it enough to want to come back. It was just the triathlon thing that pushed it off the front burner, but now its back. Anyway, what would you think of my slow run-walk strategy?
Ron
The course for the 25k is about 1/3 gravel forest roads, and 2/3 track, usually mountain bike trails. Some quite technical, some easy. Lovely upland forest hardwoods. No bushwacking thru long grass or swamp. Lots of small steep hills to walk and catch your breath. But they are not continuous; you can run most of it. I saw Clark Zealand come floating down a hill at high speed that I was struggling up, and it's true, the fast people like him and Rune are in a different sport. Most of the 25k people were friendly first-timers, out for fun and challenge and a new experience. You can camp up there on the site if you want. Overall I liked it enough to want to come back. It was just the triathlon thing that pushed it off the front burner, but now its back. Anyway, what would you think of my slow run-walk strategy?
Ron
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Doonst
- Abby Hoffman
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RonPerth wrote: Anyway, what would you think of my slow run-walk strategy?
Ron
Sounds like a great day. Making the best of your situation, doing what you can safely and still expanding your horizons. Is the long course similarly proportioned?
next up:
This broken wing will fly again
One fine day
This blackbird's mute gonna sing again
One fine day
So all you sinners come out
And all you drunkards crawl out
Come into the light of one fine day
This broken wing will fly again
One fine day
This blackbird's mute gonna sing again
One fine day
So all you sinners come out
And all you drunkards crawl out
Come into the light of one fine day
I believe the longer courses have more trail and less gravel road; there is no pavement at all. It's mentioned a bit on the course site or on the map. You probably have the link, but I'll post it here for those who don't:
http://ouser.org/races/hali.htm
Ron
http://ouser.org/races/hali.htm
Ron
I was only planning Haliburton pending a decent result at Owen Sound, which I didn't get.
I think you're right about being a good choice for a first 50 mile though. Should be a little easier than SS (plus more interesting since you don't do loops). 13 hours is ample time. My only advice is "go really long." I did several 50k's and one 7 hour run within six weeks of my 50 miler and I'm darn glad I did.
Personally, I would aim for a nice steady run for the first half, then run as much as is comfortable on the way back until you start to run/walk. The trick is to stay fresh enough to make good time walking. When I was still trying to run after 65 k I beat myself up doing a 59 min 5k. Then I gave up and walked hard and did a 64 min 5k. If I'd had the energy I would have kicked myself. Practice walking strongly, including hills
I think you're right about being a good choice for a first 50 mile though. Should be a little easier than SS (plus more interesting since you don't do loops). 13 hours is ample time. My only advice is "go really long." I did several 50k's and one 7 hour run within six weeks of my 50 miler and I'm darn glad I did.
Personally, I would aim for a nice steady run for the first half, then run as much as is comfortable on the way back until you start to run/walk. The trick is to stay fresh enough to make good time walking. When I was still trying to run after 65 k I beat myself up doing a 59 min 5k. Then I gave up and walked hard and did a 64 min 5k. If I'd had the energy I would have kicked myself. Practice walking strongly, including hills
Hola!
Thanks for the advice, Mike. I can't possible run as much as you suggest. I'm looking at it as a walking event, with running allowed when it feels easy.
Later today I'm going out to a kind-of-measured 20k trail loop in a park to check on my walking time for that distance. If it's easily within 3 hours, I'm on track. If it's not, I'll probably go back down to the 50k.
One thing I found from being in a few of these races, is that people really do set their own pace. They don't just see who can run the fastest. The fast ones really do run fast. But some go quite slowly. A few powerwalk.
Ron
Later today I'm going out to a kind-of-measured 20k trail loop in a park to check on my walking time for that distance. If it's easily within 3 hours, I'm on track. If it's not, I'll probably go back down to the 50k.
One thing I found from being in a few of these races, is that people really do set their own pace. They don't just see who can run the fastest. The fast ones really do run fast. But some go quite slowly. A few powerwalk.
Ron
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Doonst
- Abby Hoffman
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- Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:17 pm
- Location: the corner of Sixth and Where Do I Go?
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mlazenby wrote:I was only planning Haliburton pending a decent result at Owen Sound, which I didn't get.
Yeah I think I will leave my decision on Haliburton until after the ITT, if indeed I do that (it is the first day of my holidays).
next up:
This broken wing will fly again
One fine day
This blackbird's mute gonna sing again
One fine day
So all you sinners come out
And all you drunkards crawl out
Come into the light of one fine day
This broken wing will fly again
One fine day
This blackbird's mute gonna sing again
One fine day
So all you sinners come out
And all you drunkards crawl out
Come into the light of one fine day
RonPerth wrote:If it's easily within 3 hours, I'm on track.
Life should be so good Ron. That's just over 14 minute miles. I did quite a bit of walking this year with all my ankle injuries and I was able to do a few 14 minute miles at a time, but it was a push, and that was on roads. For even moderate trails I think an 18 minute mile powerhike would be much more realistic, so maybe 3:40 per 20k. That was a pretty typical loop time for the 100mi guys at SS, who I assume were doing a lot of walked laps.
Hola!
Yep, you're right Mike. I did a 20k loop in Frontenac Park today, walking briskly, no stops, and it took 3:30. Now I'm not trained for power walking, but on the other hand, it was the first loop. So it looks like there just isn't time to walk the 50 miler in the 13 hour cutoff. Good idea, but it doesn't work out.
I'll have switch to the 50k, I guess. Well there's nothing too wrong with that.
Btw, I know its far from you, but for anyone else that's lurking, the Salmon Lake trail is very much like the Haliburton trails. Dirt single track, not too technical, all runnable for a good trail runner, maybe easier on the hill issue. And it's measured, so you have an idea of how you're doing.
Ron
I'll have switch to the 50k, I guess. Well there's nothing too wrong with that.
Btw, I know its far from you, but for anyone else that's lurking, the Salmon Lake trail is very much like the Haliburton trails. Dirt single track, not too technical, all runnable for a good trail runner, maybe easier on the hill issue. And it's measured, so you have an idea of how you're doing.
Ron
Ok I registered for the 50 km. today. You obviously know I broke my collarbone and have not been running for over a month. You might know that on a whim I agreed to be the 5:00 pace bunny for the Toronto Waterfront Marathon. So then I started to worry about the marathon. It's slow, but 5 hours is a long time to keep running for someone who hasen't been doing any, and the poor devils who will be following me will actually expect me to lead them in. Oh oh.
So yesterday I went trail running with a couple of friends for a few hours, and it went ok, and we were talking, my one friend said, ' well you should solve your fitness problem by going up to Haliburton and doing the the 50km. Perfect training run, 2 weeks before the marathon. Over the distance, and over the time, it'll be great.' For a while I thought she was pulling my leg, but then I figured, 'you know, it would work out'. I fell twice and didn't break any more bones, so I'm going.
It should be funny when the marathon followers start asking about my training schedule, Higdon, or Gallway, or whatever.
Ron
So yesterday I went trail running with a couple of friends for a few hours, and it went ok, and we were talking, my one friend said, ' well you should solve your fitness problem by going up to Haliburton and doing the the 50km. Perfect training run, 2 weeks before the marathon. Over the distance, and over the time, it'll be great.' For a while I thought she was pulling my leg, but then I figured, 'you know, it would work out'. I fell twice and didn't break any more bones, so I'm going.
It should be funny when the marathon followers start asking about my training schedule, Higdon, or Gallway, or whatever.
Ron
Good for you Ron! I personally find the full-distance/over-distance approach works really well for those of us who aren't actually trying to race these long beasties. I did lots of 50k runs in the spring and never felt so good. Not likely you'll see me there, but, hey, you never know (stranger things have happened). I think if you can get through the trail 50, the 5 hour marathon will feel relatively easy 2 weeks later.
Hola!
You know you're an ultra-runner runner when..................your running buddy suggests a 50km trail race as a training run for a marathon.............and you think its a good idea.
So the Haliburton 50k was great fun. I had a good time. Finished in 7:20. Didn't fall. Felt good. Feel confident about doing my marathon now.
The 50k and longer races start at 6:00am, so I went up the night before and slept in my van at the race site. There was a pasta dinner, and some people camping in tents. The RD asked people to introduce themselves, and there were quite a few 100 mile people from the states. Well, not that many; there aren't that many overall.
There is a 25k too that starts at 9:00, so a lot of those people arrive in the morning and I didn't see them until out on the trail the next day.
The cookhouse opens for coffee and bagels at 5:00 am, (free). At 5:45, the bagpiper calls the runners to the start line. After 5 seconds of piping, 20 or 30 husky dogs in a pen start singing along with piper. Its dark, cool, dewy and misty. People are shadows shuffling around the start line. Helen the RD offers a short prayer that include reference to Forest Gump, and a reminder that we're not allowed to drop out without resting for 1/2 an hour at an aid station, then says 'ok, go'.
It was eerie, quiet and pleasant starting out along the forest road. Just barely light enough to see; people with headlights were using them. Quiet chatting with people nearby. Front runners soon out of sight. I was with a small group of easy-goers, walking the little inclines even then, trying to preserve the good-morning freshness in our legs.
The trails started just as it was getting light enough to see. Still it required concentration; it was that dusky no-contrast kind of light in the bush. I took my time, picking up my feet well, chatting with a woman from Michigan, a teacher who had come up with her husband after school on Friday, and got there at 2:00 am. Her husband was waiting for her at every aid station, which were always where the trails crossed a road. Kind of neat.
I cruised along from station to station, basically, walking both up and down the hills, taking it easy. On the way out there was usually someone around, but on the way back, I was almost always running alone. Going up one hill on the way out to the turnaround, walking, chatting with a couple of guys, a cute little mall-brat came flying by us, running fast downhill, a cheery greeting, smile and wave. It was the 50k overall leader, on her way back. What a runner. Near the turnaround, I was passed by Wendy from Ottawa. I know her and her husband very casually. Anyway she was trying her first 100 miler. It was hard to imagine that when I woke up the next morning, she would probably have been running all afternoon, all evening, all night running, and still struggling to finish. (Right now I don't know the results).
So my jog back was a little slower than going out by 20 min., but that's reasonable. It was a good day; I felt good after. Next time, 50 miles.
Ron
So the Haliburton 50k was great fun. I had a good time. Finished in 7:20. Didn't fall. Felt good. Feel confident about doing my marathon now.
The 50k and longer races start at 6:00am, so I went up the night before and slept in my van at the race site. There was a pasta dinner, and some people camping in tents. The RD asked people to introduce themselves, and there were quite a few 100 mile people from the states. Well, not that many; there aren't that many overall.
There is a 25k too that starts at 9:00, so a lot of those people arrive in the morning and I didn't see them until out on the trail the next day.
The cookhouse opens for coffee and bagels at 5:00 am, (free). At 5:45, the bagpiper calls the runners to the start line. After 5 seconds of piping, 20 or 30 husky dogs in a pen start singing along with piper. Its dark, cool, dewy and misty. People are shadows shuffling around the start line. Helen the RD offers a short prayer that include reference to Forest Gump, and a reminder that we're not allowed to drop out without resting for 1/2 an hour at an aid station, then says 'ok, go'.
It was eerie, quiet and pleasant starting out along the forest road. Just barely light enough to see; people with headlights were using them. Quiet chatting with people nearby. Front runners soon out of sight. I was with a small group of easy-goers, walking the little inclines even then, trying to preserve the good-morning freshness in our legs.
The trails started just as it was getting light enough to see. Still it required concentration; it was that dusky no-contrast kind of light in the bush. I took my time, picking up my feet well, chatting with a woman from Michigan, a teacher who had come up with her husband after school on Friday, and got there at 2:00 am. Her husband was waiting for her at every aid station, which were always where the trails crossed a road. Kind of neat.
I cruised along from station to station, basically, walking both up and down the hills, taking it easy. On the way out there was usually someone around, but on the way back, I was almost always running alone. Going up one hill on the way out to the turnaround, walking, chatting with a couple of guys, a cute little mall-brat came flying by us, running fast downhill, a cheery greeting, smile and wave. It was the 50k overall leader, on her way back. What a runner. Near the turnaround, I was passed by Wendy from Ottawa. I know her and her husband very casually. Anyway she was trying her first 100 miler. It was hard to imagine that when I woke up the next morning, she would probably have been running all afternoon, all evening, all night running, and still struggling to finish. (Right now I don't know the results).
So my jog back was a little slower than going out by 20 min., but that's reasonable. It was a good day; I felt good after. Next time, 50 miles.
Ron
Awesome job Ron.... Is the course what you'd consider technical? Ultras are hard to compare so you'll learn to never judge 50km times except against the same race the subsequent year 
which I'm sure you'll be back to do 
50 miles is a great distance - I highly recommend it!
S5
which I'm sure you'll be back to do
50 miles is a great distance - I highly recommend it!
S5
Vancouver 2012 Done!
Considering CIM 2012
Considering CIM 2012
My overall average pace was the same as the 25k I did there last year, except this year I went twice as far. I'm happy with that.
It's not brutally technical like some places where you have to use your hands to help and its dangerous to go down, but except for the bush roads, you can never lose your concentration on where you're putting your feet.
Every year I feel to go to the Vulture Bait. And every year I tell myself that a run in the bush should not require 3 days, 300 miles of driving, and $300. So I'm going to throw a fat-ass trail marathon in Frontenac Park, between Kingston and Ottawa for the eastern Ontarians. 1, 2 or 3 loops of a nice single track 20k trail around a lake. Speedsters can do 3 loops, SO's can take 1 loop walking as a nature hike. You're all invited of course. Lurkers PM me if you wish. I'll announce it as a new topic soon.
Ron
It's not brutally technical like some places where you have to use your hands to help and its dangerous to go down, but except for the bush roads, you can never lose your concentration on where you're putting your feet.
Every year I feel to go to the Vulture Bait. And every year I tell myself that a run in the bush should not require 3 days, 300 miles of driving, and $300. So I'm going to throw a fat-ass trail marathon in Frontenac Park, between Kingston and Ottawa for the eastern Ontarians. 1, 2 or 3 loops of a nice single track 20k trail around a lake. Speedsters can do 3 loops, SO's can take 1 loop walking as a nature hike. You're all invited of course. Lurkers PM me if you wish. I'll announce it as a new topic soon.
Ron
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Irongirl
- Kevin Sullivan
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great work Ron!
Any chance I can find the results anywhere for Wendy? (we used to be pretty consistent running partners)
Any chance I can find the results anywhere for Wendy? (we used to be pretty consistent running partners)
RonPerth wrote: Near the turnaround, I was passed by Wendy from Ottawa. I know her and her husband very casually. Anyway she was trying her first 100 miler. It was hard to imagine that when I woke up the next morning, she would probably have been running all afternoon, all evening, all night running, and still struggling to finish. (Right now I don't know the results).
i run for me.
Number of Maniacs Met: 225!
Number of Maniacs Met: 225!
Here the Ouser website:
http://ouser.org/
They will post pictures and results pretty soon, but I see they're not up yet.
Btw, I'm #132 if you look at the pictures.
Ron
http://ouser.org/
They will post pictures and results pretty soon, but I see they're not up yet.
Btw, I'm #132 if you look at the pictures.
Ron
Btw, it's almost a month late, but just by chance I ran across Wendy's account of her first 100 mile run.
http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum ... 9080.shtml
Ron
http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum ... 9080.shtml
Ron
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