Running Mania

Just wondering what official organizations do with something like this? I ran a 5 mile race recently, and when my garmin said I'd done 5k, the time was under my PB for a 5k race. Does it count?

Peter Pao-Pao wrote:Just wondering what official organizations do with something like this? I ran a 5 mile race recently, and when my garmin said I'd done 5k, the time was under my PB for a 5k race. Does it count?

Personally I always call that an unofficial PB and then sign up for the next race at that distance that is chip timed. You've got to figure that with a sprint finish you will crush the old PB.

Also, I never go by my garmin for a PB, for me it has to be a chip timed event.

mas_runner wrote:

Peter Pao-Pao wrote:Just wondering what official organizations do with something like this? I ran a 5 mile race recently, and when my garmin said I'd done 5k, the time was under my PB for a 5k race. Does it count?

Personally I always call that an unofficial PB and then sign up for the next race at that distance that is chip timed. You've got to figure that with a sprint finish you will crush the old PB.

Also, I never go by my garmin for a PB, for me it has to be a chip timed event.

Unofficial - like the sound of it. At the finish line I ended up beating my 5 mile/ 8k PB in the race by 3 minutes so will settle for that.

Some distances are actually officially recorded as part of another distance. For example 30k road records are often set as an official 30k split time in a marathon.

But in shorter races and even some marathons, split distances aren't always official. The 5k split in your race may or may not actually be an accurate 5k distance. For yourself personally there's nothing wrong with calling it an unofficial PB.

But maybe it's time to really set a PB in a 5k race.

If you've ever hung around the Runners World forums, I believe they use the acronym "PR" (personal record) for record split times in longer races, and "PB" for times actually raced at that distance. Some people will even use their training results as their "PR"'s.

I say it counts, if it's been recorded so by Garmin ...after all, people will record PB's on races that aren't chip timed, like 5K fun runs. I would think, though, that a 5K PB should be faster than your 5K split from a longer race, since obviously you're not going all out in the longer race. I've mentioned my best splits before as to how fast I run a given distance....since I don't usually race short races, my fastest short times are from training. I kinda like the RW acronyms, PR is shorter to type than 'unofficial PB'.

I could be wrong, but I think the PR/PB thing is just a US/Canada difference. They say PR interchangeably with our PB.

It's not the chip timing that matters (lots of popsicle stick races can be as accurate as chip timed ones) but the course measurement. Very few longer races will have certified splits. I don't think there are any in Ontario right now.

dgrant wrote:I could be wrong, but I think the PR/PB thing is just a US/Canada difference. They say PR interchangeably with our PB.

It's not the chip timing that matters (lots of popsicle stick races can be as accurate as chip timed ones) but the course measurement. Very few longer races will have certified splits. I don't think there are any in Ontario right now.

You think? I've noticed that people will have PR for some of their race results, and PB for others....from the definitions they list (ie. 10k split in ABC Half) it looks like for some that PR = splits/noncertified/training results and PB = race.

I think that people who count splits as their PR/PB is using their Garmin splits. I would say that's as (or sometimes more) accurate, +/- a few meters, than course markers. Good enough for your own personal 'records'.

PinkLady wrote:

dgrant wrote:I could be wrong, but I think the PR/PB thing is just a US/Canada difference. They say PR interchangeably with our PB.

You think? I've noticed that people will have PR for some of their race results, and PB for others....from the definitions they list (ie. 10k split in ABC Half) it looks like for some that PR = splits/noncertified/training results and PB = race.

I think that people who count splits as their PR/PB is using their Garmin splits. I would say that's as (or sometimes more) accurate, +/- a few meters, than course markers. Good enough for your own personal 'records'.

dgrant is right-
It's just a US/Canada thing (and in some other parts of the English-speaking world they also use PB in place of PR). The terms are otherwise interchangeable.

Even in official meets you'll see Canadians use PB (and elites cite their PBs for races).

I think the important thing that matters is how YOU feel about it.

i.e. if I haven't run a 5k race in years, technically, I'd say that my PB is 29:34 (for the sake of argument - I actually don't know what it is)

BUT, I know that in a recent race, I ran a 5k split of 27:35. (this happens to me a lot in triathlons as well!)

Well, in MY MIND, I know that I have a faster 5k in me. BUT, my official race best time is the 29:34.

Until I step up to that race course, my official PB is still 29:34.

HOWEVER, since none of our PB's are going to get us to the Olympics, does it really matter? What really matters is knowing what you are capable of. If you know that you are capable of faster than your current recorded time - get your a$$ out to a race, and prove it!

I only count it if the race is the right distance. It saves me from having to say things like "I set a 5k pb from km 1.5 to km 6.5 of this 10k race, then another one from km 3.0 to 8.0". Or wondering if it only counts if its the FIRST 5k. Too complicated.

Hijack - Robert Hamilton? Great race, fast field, one of the highlights of the year for me every year. Last year I PB'd there in the 5 mile then PB'd at a 5k later that morning downtown. Alas, this year I was at the office.

Your Garmin isn't the most accurate thing in the world, either.

Irongirl wrote:HOWEVER, since none of our PB's are going to get us to the Olympics, does it really matter? What really matters is knowing what you are capable of. If you know that you are capable of faster than your current recorded time - get your a$$ out to a race, and prove it!

That seems like a bit of a contradiction, doesn't it? "It doesn't really matter... but go prove it in a race because that's the only thing that matters!"

This is not the first time this topic has come up. I remember when a friend of mine was so happy for himself that he set a PB in a 10K in a training run. Most people told him "it didn't count." It started a whole debate about "what is a PB" and "is it official" and "can we each define it personally," etc. From the outside it seems very elitist for us to say, "Oh, well, it's not really a PB unless it's in a race." It can really be whatever you want it to be.

If I were to only count chip-timed races as PBs, my PBs would only be at the marathon and half distances. Most of the races I run are small and local; gun-time only. For a long time, we didn't even have a clock - just someone at the finish with a stop-watch. I have great memories of those races .

Some of our courses are certified, others aren't. My garmin usually measures long. For my own personal "record" keeping, I only count races run on courses that are certified as PBs.

Peter P, I see no issues with you counting your 5k split as a PB. It's your time; you ran it. And once you run an "official" 5k race, you'll likely smash that PB anyways .

Personally, I only count PBs in officially timed and measured races.

But I also might keep track of times that I run on a training run of a route I do regularly where I'm trying to see if I can beat my previous time. And I might also acknowledge when I've had a "PB" at a certain split in a longer race, but don't call that a PB.

It's hard to be black and white when so many of the races we run (particularly the shorter ones) are not certified courses. As a result, I have no qualms in recognizing a time trial 12.5 times around a 400m track as my 5K PB. Mileage markers within a race are even more suspect, therefore I use "race split PBs" as an indication that it's time to update the PB with a standalone race. How others define their PBs doesn't affect me either way.

I love a good debate. I think I'll call it unofficial. I grew up in the UK, and never heard of a PR until I started reading runners world. I used to joke with friends about setting a "(personal) world record" though. I was 20 seconds inside my official 5k PB, which I set in July this year.

turd ferguson - it was the Robert Hamilton race. My blog's in my signature line if you'd like to read my race report (with headcam vid). You're right about the fast field - I came 10th in the 5 miler out of 52, a low position for me in such a relatively small field.

La wrote:Personally, I only count PBs in officially timed and measured races.

I should clarify, in my earlier post I said I only count "chip-timed", but I meant "timed" (popsicle stick etc is fine). I have been in races with no clock, no timing, one had no finish line so I had to guess.

It should be "google-able" to be considered a PB, I say. Just my two cents. I only count mine if I can trace it to a published finish time and completed race. I ran a faster 21.1K than my 1/2 marathon PB as a part of a marathon (in my first marathon) 4 yrs ago but I never counted it as a PB....and it took me 4 yrs to post another actual 1/2 marathon PB.

So get out and find a 5K race to run soon and then you'll have a 5K PB! But big congrats on getting faster! You can definitetly say that.

If I pass a sign on a marked race course I will hit the lap button and whatever time I get there I will count as my PB (unofficial). However, as has been pointed out, if you PB something shorter - it might be interesting to then go out and race that event to see what you could really do.

For example - I haven't raced a half marathon for real since 2005 (around 1:41). Around 2009 getting back to running I ran a 2:03 and a 1:51. Then in 2010 during longer races (30k/marathon) I was around 1:35 for the half, and again in 2011 I saw 1:29:50 something (going hard - 30k) and 1:32 (going easier -marathon) at various races. I would consider my half time to be around 1:30 or so for good measure, but I can't really say what it is. At ATB this year when I saw the sign for 21.1 I hit lap and got 1:30:07 but for distance I got 21.13kms (actual is 21.097494kms). Therefore I could probably run a half just under but didn't. I list my PR as 1:41 for fun since its way out of whack with all my other records.

But I never count my garmin time or treadmill time in formal discussions. Although measurement error is common in racing - most of this comes from your error (ie not running the course as straight as possible) so it's never going to be replicated in a race. Of course race conditions will never be the same for 2 people who are in different races/dates from each other anyway. However garmin and treadmill error is probably higher - especially if on a certified course. Think buildings and trees. For a treadmill think of the last time it was calibrated. If at a gym with heavy use - then good luck!

fingerboy wrote:If I pass a sign on a marked race course I will hit the lap button and whatever time I get there I will count as my PB (unofficial). However, as has been pointed out, if you PB something shorter - it might be interesting to then go out and race that event to see what you could really do.

For example - I haven't raced a half marathon for real since 2005 (around 1:41). Around 2009 getting back to running I ran a 2:03 and a 1:51. Then in 2010 during longer races (30k/marathon) I was around 1:35 for the half, and again in 2011 I saw 1:29:50 something (going hard - 30k) and 1:32 (going easier -marathon) at various races. I would consider my half time to be around 1:29:59 or so for good measure, but I can't really say what it is. I list my PR as 1:41 for fun since its way out of whack with all my other records.

But I never count my garmin time or treadmill time in formal discussions. Although measurement error is common in racing - most of this comes from your error (ie not running the course as straight as possible) so it's never going to be replicated in a race. Of course race conditions will never be the same for 2 people who are in different races/dates from each other anyway. However garmin and treadmill error is probably higher - especially if on a certified course. Think buildings and trees. For a treadmill think of the last time it was calibrated. If at a gym with heavy use - then good luck!

except your signature says 1:29:50

Yep - caught me. What I really need to do is go out there and finally run a new half. Thinking about chilly.