Work through it, or call the doc?

[QuickLittleLizard]

Hi gang!

I just did my first indoor track stint. I'm on Week 4 of the C25K, and I was the slowest one out there. LOL! Dems young whippersnappers.

Here's what I've learned:
My shins are not happy. The muscles on either side of the bones feel tight and were hurting almost the whole time.
My left knee is having... issues. I attribute it to the shin thing. It's a sharper pain below the kneecap.
When I tried two little pushes at a faster speed, both areas didn't feel as bad. Weeeeeird.

Also, the stamp on my hand that says, "TRACK" is really cool.

Do I ice the shins and knee? Heat them in a hot bath (preferred)? Call the doc? Roll with the punches and take it as part of the training process? I'm going to massage therapy on Tuesday but I wasn't sure what to do in the meantime. I was hoping to fit in another run for week 4 on Monday but the last thing I need is an injury.

Any ideas? Is there a doctor in the house?

Marcy

[CAW]

For now: RICE! Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation....

How are your running shoes? Are they new or old? Were you properly fitted at a running specialty type store or are you running on the sneakers you had kicking around?

When I started my first C25K program I was running on Dr. Scholl sneakers...not meant for actual athletic activities. I thought the running was going to kill me, until I was properly fitted for actual running specific shoes.

4 years later and I still buy the same brand and type I was fitted for. (Saucony Guide)

If you do have proper running shoes, how old are they? Do you use them just for running, or do you use them for other athletic activities/walking around too?

I'm asking all this because, though shoes may not be the only cause of the shinsplints, they are usually the first and easiest culprit to rule out.

[Irongirl]

to add to Kara's advice...I would play it by ear for Monday - if your shins are still sore, missing ONE run is okay, especially since you have an appointment for Tuesday to talk to someone.

[abhainn]

Hi Marcy. Here are my 2c.

Ice is your friend. More medical types will correct me if I'm wrong but I think you only do the heat thing once your on the way to mending, not while the injury (for lack of a better term) is still ongoing.

When it comes to shin splints and knee pain the first thing I always want to know is are you wearing the right shoes for you? Have you had your gait checked to make sure?

Also how old are your shoes? When I started running I was wearing very old runners because I didn't want to spend the money on new ones just in case the running thing didn't "click". I ended up with shin splints that I had to get treatment for. Thankfully just a few torture sessions with my ART guy and new shoes and I was good to go. Old shoes also bother my knee(ongoing knee issues) so I know when it starts to act up more than usual it's time for new shoes, regardless of how many kms I've put on them. If it is your shoes you may not need any kind of medical intervention just new shoes and it will clear up on it's own, I just happen to be prone to shin splints and had let it go for too long, about a month, before getting my act together.

[QuickLittleLizard]

The shoes are about two weeks old, Saucony, at the outlet in St. Jacob's and the lady really knew her stuff. I have not had my gait tested and I got neutral shoes until I know more. So, new actual running shoes that fit well and have bounciness rather than my old clunkers. I only use them for running, nothing else. So I think we can rule them out, yes?

20 years ago when I used to really RUN, I got shin splints once, but it was so long ago I just remembered them as nasty but not what it felt like - that's not what I have already, is it??

Ice. Gotcha. RICE. Gotcha. Will try my best to do both, but with the twins it's hard to stay still long enough.

Thank you so much for all the advice. You guys all rock. I'll see how I'm feeling on Monday.

On the plus side, I had no troubles breathing or keeping up that part of the cardio even during the little sprints!

Marcy

[Irongirl]

The shoes are about two weeks old, Saucony, at the outlet in St. Jacob's and the lady really knew her stuff. I have not had my gait tested and I got neutral shoes until I know more. So, new actual running shoes that fit well and have bounciness rather than my old clunkers. I only use them for running, nothing else. So I think we can rule them out, yes?

hmm....I'm confused - you said the lady knew her stuff, but, you didn't have your gait tested - did she watch you run or walk? You got neutral shoes - why? Neutral shoes wouldn't work for me, I can tell you that much! So, it could be your shoes, if they aren't right for your gait.

I find that a LOT of people that are starting out run too fast and get shin problems....although, if you are in week 4, I'd be surprised if that was happening now. You also said that when you ran faster at the end, your spots didn't hurt as much.....so, maybe you are running a tad too slow - especially since you said you had no trouble with the cardio side of things.

[CAW]

The shoes are about two weeks old, Saucony, at the outlet in St. Jacob's and the lady really knew her stuff. I have not had my gait tested and I got neutral shoes until I know more. So, new actual running shoes that fit well and have bounciness rather than my old clunkers. I only use them for running, nothing else. So I think we can rule them out, yes?

hmm....I'm confused - you said the lady knew her stuff, but, you didn't have your gait tested - did she watch you run or walk? You got neutral shoes - why? Neutral shoes wouldn't work for me, I can tell you that much! So, it could be your shoes, if they aren't right for your gait.

I find that a LOT of people that are starting out run too fast and get shin problems....although, if you are in week 4, I'd be surprised if that was happening now. You also said that when you ran faster at the end, your spots didn't hurt as much.....so, maybe you are running a tad too slow - especially since you said you had no trouble with the cardio side of things.

Yes, this confused me too.

Though I'm a Saucony girl I've tried other shoes (asics, mizuno) and I've even tried neutral Saucony's (when they came in pink and I really really wanted pink shoes) but have realized through bad trial and error that I can not ever use a neutral shoe for my gait.

Though often times the word neutral might connotate okay for everyone, this is certainly not the case for running shoes. You might pronate a bit (rolling in) or supinate (rolling out) and need a stability type shoe, or if it is really bad, a motion control type. Saucony makes all kinds for all feet. There are even several Saucony stability designs that just don't work for me either.

Every foot is different, and you'll find everyone has their absolute favourite shoe.

Hopefully you'll be better on Monday!

[QuickLittleLizard]

To be fair to her, I had two babies and hubby home with the flu and I raced out to get them, it was my only chance that week. I rushed her, a lot. I will have my gait tested asap. Can I still exchange shoes I've only worn twice? I'm pretty shure I threw out the bill. My left knee was ANGRY last night, even after the ice as I slept, and this morning.

Speed. I... I'm coming off of 20 years of Fibromyalgia. I'm afraid of pushing it and the little straightaways when I sped up scared me a bit. I am so afraid of hurting like I did before. (I know, but I run through shin pain. Immediate and localized pain I can ignore, long term all over body shut-down I can't.) I was also aware of trying to pace myself and didn't sprint until the end with what I had left. I don't know if I could do the Week 4 program completely at the higher speed. I have some psychological hurdles to work on.

[BJH]

If you only ran inside then yes, you can probably take the shoes back. However, when you go, go alone and give yourself at least an hour for the gait analysis and to try on different pairs of shoes. You said you've only worn them twice though in two weeks? What are you using for your other runs?

Along with the icing (soon after your run) you may want to add some shin stretches to your stretching routine. The RMT may be able to suggest some, but meanwhile, try just kneeling and siting back on your heels with your toes pointed.

[trixiee]

Not saying this is what you have, and don't want to scare you, but I've heard that with injuries such as stress fractures, the area hurts at first, and then goes away once the area warms up...

Any pain is too much pain. Do not be a hero, and push through it.

[abhainn]

Though often times the word neutral might connotate okay for everyone, this is certainly not the case for running shoes. You might pronate a bit (rolling in) or supinate (rolling out) and need a stability type shoe, or if it is really bad, a motion control type. Saucony makes all kinds for all feet. There are even several Saucony stability designs that just don't work for me either.

Every foot is different, and you'll find everyone has their absolute favourite shoe.

Hopefully you'll be better on Monday!

Just to point something out. If you supinate, where the foot doesn't roll in enough or at all, you will need a neutral cushioning shoe. This is me. I tried a Motion control shoe in my first year and my knee told me right away that they were wrong for me.

[QuickLittleLizard]

You said you've only worn them twice though in two weeks? What are you using for your other runs?

Along with the icing (soon after your run) you may want to add some shin stretches to your stretching routine. The RMT may be able to suggest some, but meanwhile, try just kneeling and siting back on your heels with your toes pointed.

Twice outside. I should have specified.

Thanks for the stretch tip!

I went back and exchanged the shoes and got these:
http://www.onlineshoes.com/womens-saucony-grid-stabil-6-white-grey-blue-p_id83130?adtrack=nextag&term=Women%27s+Saucony+Grid+Stabil+6&offer=
Stabil 6 - the guy said that's the best. I said that if anything, my feet roll in, having had my feet drop after being pregnant last year that's my best guess and judging from the pain in my knee being a bit more on the inside.

He told me to run up and down the hall a few times, but damn, it just hurt and it was really hard to tell after my run hurt me so much yesterday. I'll have to heal up, talk to my RMT and try them later. He said if they're still not right I can come back and try again.

This is hard to figure out!

Marcy

[CAW]

Take a look at the bottoms of your new shoes. If they don't look too dirty and you can clean them up with a baby wipe (you probably have those kicking around)...try to take them in for an exchange. Most athletic stores will do an exchange within a month as long as the shoes are still in good enough shape to be able to sell again.

[QuickLittleLizard]

Take a look at the bottoms of your new shoes. If they don't look too dirty and you can clean them up with a baby wipe (you probably have those kicking around)...try to take them in for an exchange. Most athletic stores will do an exchange within a month as long as the shoes are still in good enough shape to be able to sell again.

Baby wipes abound!

They took the shoes for an even exchange.

But after finishing (!) my Christmas shopping today my shins were still not 100% so I'm going to rest and talk to my RMT tomorrow.

As my dad would say with his "duck face"... "It's alwaaaays something."

[La]

To be frank, I would question any program that has you doing track/speed work only 4 weeks in! That's your problem right there: too much, too fast, too soon.

If your goal is "couch to 5K" track work is not necessary.

[QuickLittleLizard]

To be frank, I would question any program that has you doing track/speed work only 4 weeks in! That's your problem right there: too much, too fast, too soon.

If your goal is "couch to 5K" track work is not necessary.

I'm just using the indoor track to run instead of the sidewalk because of all the ice. I'm not sure if you mean something else by "track work". I tried to pick up speed a couple of times on my own at the end, not as part of the program but to see if the pain got worse or better, and it felt better. But, otherwise I was the slowest one out there, and I felt like I was going slow enough for most of the program.

But I have new shoes, and I'll have to find out what's causing this shin/knee pain. I don't like mysteries.

M~

[La]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were doing a track workout / speed work.

That said, indoor tracks are tough to run on because they have a pretty tight radius (much smaller than outdoor tracks) and going around in circles like that can put stress on one side of the body and not the other. Do you alternate directions from one workout to the next?

Generally, the kind of pain you are experiencing comes from over use (on top of other biomechanical issues - some of which can be corrected with the right shoes).

[QuickLittleLizard]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were doing a track workout / speed work.

That said, indoor tracks are tough to run on because they have a pretty tight radius (much smaller than outdoor tracks) and going around in circles like that can put stress on one side of the body and not the other. Do you alternate directions from one workout to the next?

Generally, the kind of pain you are experiencing comes from over use (on top of other biomechanical issues - some of which can be corrected with the right shoes).

Not a problem.

This track (http://www.thecomplex.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=1486) has directional days. Ex: Saturdays are counter-clockwise. This is for the safety of all people using the track (so I can't turn around and even it out). It's at the top of an ice rink so if anyone's there to watch the game/practice they have to know which way the "traffic" is coming from to cross.

There are also three lanes: slow, medium and fast - so the slow lane that I was in is tighter around the ends. Maybe that's why my left leg was more sore? But before then I started getting a hint of the pain and I was just following the C25K program whch seems very reasonable to me without overuse.

But if that's overuse for MY body, maybe I have to take it easier? I ain't 16 anymore.

[La]

This track (http://www.thecomplex.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=1486) has directional days. Ex: Saturdays are counter-clockwise. This is for the safety of all people using the track (so I can't turn around and even it out). It's at the top of an ice rink so if anyone's there to watch the game/practice they have to know which way the "traffic" is coming from to cross.

That makes sense. Do you stagger your workouts so that you are also alternating directions from one run to the next?

A guest speaker at the RR many years ago (PT or kinesiologist, not sure which) told a story about a patient who was suffering from pain from running. After a lengthy patient history, it came to light that he was running on an indoor track that alternated directions every day - except he ran every second day, so even though the track alternated, he was always running in the same direction!


I had one other thought regarding shin splints: do your feet make a "slapping" sound when you run, or are you a "quiet" runner? When I've suffered shin splints in the past it was because I was wearing shoes that were TOO supportive and stiff for my foot, resulting in my feet slapping on the ground (and ultimately shin splints). So while the "do you have the right shoes" question is valid, more support is not necessarily better. Maybe you are being over-corrected. Just a thought.

[QuickLittleLizard]

That makes sense. Do you stagger your workouts so that you are also alternating directions from one run to the next?

I had one other thought regarding shin splints: do your feet make a "slapping" sound when you run, or are you a "quiet" runner?

I only used the track once and I'm debating going back! I'm also a soft runner, no slapping here. I'll have to try my new shoes and see if they're too stiff.

But we do have a mystery solved! My RMT rocks.

Here's the basic rundown... and how I understand what he said.

My lower back is uneven. The lower left side is compensating for the tighter lower right that isn't as flexible. This changes how the hip moves and flexes, especially while running, and that creates a domino effect down the leg. Here is the side and front view of the hips and leg muscles (unless you know your anatomy really well, then skip it): http://hippie.nu/~unicorn/tut/img/basic ... scles.jpeg

"Rectus femoris:
This muscle originates on the outside of your pelvis just above your hip socket. It attaches to your upper patella and patella tendon. The rectus femoris flexes your hip and extends your knee. This muscle is part of the quadriceps muscle group and is easily felt in the middle of your thigh. The rectus femoris begins to lose its effectiveness as a knee extensor as you flex your hip." -- Running Planet

"Illiotopical Band:
A thick, fibrous band that travels down the lateral side of your thigh from your tensor fascia lata, gluteus maximus and gluteus medius muscles, across the side of your knee to your tibia. ...If you were to lie on your side and raise your leg away from your body you would be abducting your hip and leg." -- Running Planet

With my lower back problem where my hips are uneven and I take more pressure on one side, this causes a problem all down the side of the thigh. What's happening with ME is that my knee cap is starting to shift away form center and is being pulled out more to the left, or outside of the knee, hurting like a **** and pulling on the inside. The one-directional track just aggravated the problem even more!

As for the shins, that's a proper shoe thing and the new ones I exchanged in this week have more support and should do the trick. I'll keep you guys posted.

But I DON'T have to stop running. I DO have to LISTEN to my body and more importantly, OBEY.

I also have to add a new stretch to my routine: http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/images/ITband2.GIF (and he said to do most of my stretching after and not before the run when the muscles are all warmed up and pliable. I didn't know that.) When I do this I can feel exactly where it's tight and pulling on my knee!! I am to stay at the running level I've started, Week 4, and do more stretching than running but not to stop running or the muscles will weaken. When the pain lessens I can try stepping it up to Week 5.

So, my "training" will have to take the slow road as my body adjusts. I can deal with that.

Learn something new every day.

M~