Swimming...

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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:31 am

JoaniB wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:Before this I hadn't really been swimming AT ALL in about 25 years so I was really starting over. Unfortunately, I struggle so much with the breathing that I feel completely out of shape... So I don't think running helps that much!


Hey, Ultra, thank you for your response - I thought there was something wrong with me, that I could hardly do 25 meters without gasping like a fish... out of water (bad puns are my specialty).

Have you found a way to steady your breathing in the water? Or is it practice, practice, prac-*gulp of chlorinated water*-tice?


I'm still trying to figure it out. My strategy is mainly to just keep gradually decreasing the breathing time, so that I'm not spending as much time with my face OUT of the water!
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Re: Swimming...

Postby Wu wei » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:29 pm

ultraslacker wrote:
JoaniB wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:Before this I hadn't really been swimming AT ALL in about 25 years so I was really starting over. Unfortunately, I struggle so much with the breathing that I feel completely out of shape... So I don't think running helps that much!


Hey, Ultra, thank you for your response - I thought there was something wrong with me, that I could hardly do 25 meters without gasping like a fish... out of water (bad puns are my specialty).

Have you found a way to steady your breathing in the water? Or is it practice, practice, prac-*gulp of chlorinated water*-tice?


I'm still trying to figure it out. My strategy is mainly to just keep gradually decreasing the breathing time, so that I'm not spending as much time with my face OUT of the water!


Breathe more, not less. Oxygen makes swimming easier and faster.
“It is not he who reviles or strikes you who insults you, but your opinion that these things are insulting.”
Epictetus

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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:38 pm

Wu wei wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:
JoaniB wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:Before this I hadn't really been swimming AT ALL in about 25 years so I was really starting over. Unfortunately, I struggle so much with the breathing that I feel completely out of shape... So I don't think running helps that much!


Hey, Ultra, thank you for your response - I thought there was something wrong with me, that I could hardly do 25 meters without gasping like a fish... out of water (bad puns are my specialty).

Have you found a way to steady your breathing in the water? Or is it practice, practice, prac-*gulp of chlorinated water*-tice?


I'm still trying to figure it out. My strategy is mainly to just keep gradually decreasing the breathing time, so that I'm not spending as much time with my face OUT of the water!


Breathe more, not less. Oxygen makes swimming easier and faster.


but I'm spending too much time with my face up, breathing... would it not make more sense to work on efficiency so that I'm not breathing as hard and don't have to spend so much time with my face up?
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do. ~Epictetus

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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:44 pm

Today I did:
2 x fish skate
4 x underswitch
2 x double underswitch
2 x triple underswitch
2 x zipper skate
4 x zipper switch
4 x double zipper switch
4 x triple zipper switch
4 x double overswitch (this and the rest are the freestyle stroke but with extra breathing time)
4 x triple overswitch
4 x double overswitch
4 x triple overswitch

Total 40 laps. I'm reducing the preliminary drills a bit so that I can spend more time practicing my stroking and breathing. The breathing is still tough but getting a tiny bit easier. My arms are tired now.

And I guess I do sweat when I swim because I noticed that today, even after I'd showered and dressed, my face was still sweating a lot... but it was cool sweat because I wasn't hot. Kinda weird. :P
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Re: Swimming...

Postby CinC » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:23 pm

you're up to swimming 2000m? well done!
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Re: Swimming...

Postby Wu wei » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:28 pm

ultraslacker wrote:
Wu wei wrote:Breathe more, not less. Oxygen makes swimming easier and faster.


but I'm spending too much time with my face up, breathing... would it not make more sense to work on efficiency so that I'm not breathing as hard and don't have to spend so much time with my face up?


You're not improving efficiency, you're just slowing down and compromising the workout.

Go out for a run, plug your nose and breath through a straw. You won't be able to run very fast will you? So... do you need to improve efficiency at running so you use less oxygen, or do you need to just breathe more?

I would:
- use a pull-buoy, it takes your oxygen consuming legs out of the equation and makes learning to roll and breathe easier.
- unilaterally breathe. (to your dominant side on every second stroke).

Waiting to get flamed now...
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:32 pm

CinC wrote:you're up to swimming 2000m? well done!


40 laps is only 1000m :)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby CinC » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:46 pm

ultraslacker wrote:
CinC wrote:you're up to swimming 2000m? well done!


40 laps is only 1000m :)


no - 40 laps is 2000m. 50m per lap

40 lengths is 1000m. 25m per length

at least that's how I interpret it!

and wu-wei - no flaming from me - pull buoy use helped me with getting my breathing and body position under control.
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm

oh I call your lengths laps. Is it standard for a "lap" to be 50m?
"You're an ultrarunner, normal rules don't apply to you." (Doonst)


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Re: Swimming...

Postby Mark.AU » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:52 pm

Wu wei wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:
Wu wei wrote:Breathe more, not less. Oxygen makes swimming easier and faster.


but I'm spending too much time with my face up, breathing... would it not make more sense to work on efficiency so that I'm not breathing as hard and don't have to spend so much time with my face up?


You're not improving efficiency, you're just slowing down and compromising the workout.

Go out for a run, plug your nose and breath through a straw. You won't be able to run very fast will you? So... do you need to improve efficiency at running so you use less oxygen, or do you need to just breathe more?

I would:
- use a pull-buoy, it takes your oxygen consuming legs out of the equation and makes learning to roll and breathe easier.
- unilaterally breathe. (to your dominant side on every second stroke).

Waiting to get flamed now...

The delivery is a little blunt but the advice is sound. :wink:
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

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Re: Swimming...

Postby CinC » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:33 am

ultraslacker wrote:oh I call your lengths laps. Is it standard for a "lap" to be 50m?


for me, a 'lap' is a 'there and back'....most pools are 25m, so in CinC's world (so probably not 'standard' lol!), a lap is 50m! :-)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby eme » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:54 am

CinC wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:oh I call your lengths laps. Is it standard for a "lap" to be 50m?


for me, a 'lap' is a 'there and back'....most pools are 25m, so in CinC's world (so probably not 'standard' lol!), a lap is 50m! :-)


We appear to live in the same world. There and back is a lap, one way is a length.

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Re: Swimming...

Postby Jwolf » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:40 am

eme wrote:
CinC wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:oh I call your lengths laps. Is it standard for a "lap" to be 50m?


for me, a 'lap' is a 'there and back'....most pools are 25m, so in CinC's world (so probably not 'standard' lol!), a lap is 50m! :-)


We appear to live in the same world. There and back is a lap, one way is a length.


What if it's a 50m pool? Then a lap is 100m. Do you then say "x laps in the 50m pool"?
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:40 am

eme wrote:
CinC wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:oh I call your lengths laps. Is it standard for a "lap" to be 50m?


for me, a 'lap' is a 'there and back'....most pools are 25m, so in CinC's world (so probably not 'standard' lol!), a lap is 50m! :-)


We appear to live in the same world. There and back is a lap, one way is a length.


ok, I will conform for the sake of reducing confusion. :)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby CinC » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:52 am

Jwolf wrote:
eme wrote:
CinC wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:oh I call your lengths laps. Is it standard for a "lap" to be 50m?


for me, a 'lap' is a 'there and back'....most pools are 25m, so in CinC's world (so probably not 'standard' lol!), a lap is 50m! :-)


We appear to live in the same world. There and back is a lap, one way is a length.


What if it's a 50m pool? Then a lap is 100m. Do you then say "x laps in the 50m pool"?


yes, you'd say that. or just say the distance you swam.

My swim last night was 3500m which was wrote out in 200m and 300m sets versus laps or lengths (5x200m, 3x300m, 6x200m, 4x100m) - i can keep track better this way than 70 laps or 140 lengths! (works better for my brain!)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby Jwolf » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:57 am

CinC wrote:
Jwolf wrote:
eme wrote:
CinC wrote:
ultraslacker wrote:oh I call your lengths laps. Is it standard for a "lap" to be 50m?


for me, a 'lap' is a 'there and back'....most pools are 25m, so in CinC's world (so probably not 'standard' lol!), a lap is 50m! :-)


We appear to live in the same world. There and back is a lap, one way is a length.


What if it's a 50m pool? Then a lap is 100m. Do you then say "x laps in the 50m pool"?


yes, you'd say that. or just say the distance you swam.

My swim last night was 3500m which was wrote out in 200m and 300m sets versus laps or lengths (5x200m, 3x300m, 6x200m, 4x100m) - i can keep track better this way than 70 laps or 140 lengths! (works better for my brain!)


Um, yeah. :shock: My brain doesn't count well past about 40. ;) (p.s.-- wow, what a swim!!)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby JoaniB » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:20 am

Mark 2.0 wrote:
Wu wei wrote:You're not improving efficiency, you're just slowing down and compromising the workout.

Go out for a run, plug your nose and breath through a straw. You won't be able to run very fast will you? So... do you need to improve efficiency at running so you use less oxygen, or do you need to just breathe more?

I would:
- use a pull-buoy, it takes your oxygen consuming legs out of the equation and makes learning to roll and breathe easier.
- unilaterally breathe. (to your dominant side on every second stroke).

Waiting to get flamed now...

The delivery is a little blunt but the advice is sound. :wink:


Blunt, yes, but it gives a great image of the example. No flamey from me.

Ultra, I checked out the Total Immersion series at my local library - did you get all of them or specific ones? Did they help at all?
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:34 am

I got the main book from the library and the main video. They go together really well (the video shows what the book explains... and the book goes much more in-depth).

Did it help? Well it took me from not swimming at all to swimming with confidence, so yes, it helped. :)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby La » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:48 am

I also count in distance (meters) rather than lengths or laps. I can't count past 4 in the pool. :lol:

Your comment about "reducing the time I spend breathing" has me confused. Does this mean you are breathing in/out more than once each time you turn to breathe? That will definitely make you feel out of breath. Breathe out when your face is under water, so that when you turn to breathe you are only breathing in.

Do the TI videos show you proper body/head position when breathing?

I don't think there's anything wrong with unilateral breathing if it helps you to learn a relaxed and even stroke and breathing pattern. Bi-lateral just helps (most people) to swim straighter. And it helps in open-water situations so that you don't always have to breathe on the same side because of sun or waves that might be impeding you. I personally prefer it because I find it helps regulate my breathing, but I don't think it's necessarily "better."
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:53 am

La wrote:I also count in distance (meters) rather than lengths or laps. I can't count past 4 in the pool. :lol:

Your comment about "reducing the time I spend breathing" has me confused. Does this mean you are breathing in/out more than once each time you turn to breathe? That will definitely make you feel out of breath. Breathe out when your face is under water, so that when you turn to breathe you are only breathing in.


I always breathe out when my face is in the water, and in when I turn for air. But I still run out of breath. It's (gradually) getting better, but I still sometimes have to take more than one breath in between, and/or rests at the ends of the lengths.

On the other hand, I've always had bad lungs so that could be part of the problem.

Do the TI videos show you proper body/head position when breathing?


Yes they do... but I haven't quite been able to do that yet... I'm still turning more than I should be so that I can get more air.

I don't think there's anything wrong with unilateral breathing if it helps you to learn a relaxed and even stroke and breathing pattern. Bi-lateral just helps (most people) to swim straighter. And it helps in open-water situations so that you don't always have to breathe on the same side because of sun or waves that might be impeding you. I personally prefer it because I find it helps regulate my breathing, but I don't think it's necessarily "better."


I'm practicing both (as you'll see above, I was alternating 4 lengths of each) and hopefully it will get easier.
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Re: Swimming...

Postby La » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:59 am

Do you run out of breath between each stroke, or only after several strokes? There's nothing wrong with stopping at the end of the pool to catch your breath, but it will really mess up your rhythm if you are stopping in the middle of the pool to take extra breaths. And then it's like a vicious cycle.

Just out of curiosity: for how many seconds can you hold your breath?
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:03 am

La wrote:Do you run out of breath between each stroke, or only after several strokes? There's nothing wrong with stopping at the end of the pool to catch your breath, but it will really mess up your rhythm if you are stopping in the middle of the pool to take extra breaths. And then it's like a vicious cycle.


If I'm breathing between two strokes I can usually do the whole length with one breath in between. If I'm doing three strokes then I can make most of the length but then need extra breaths to finish the length. Both are improving.

Just out of curiosity: for how many seconds can you hold your breath?


I tried it just now and got 35 seconds. I have no idea what's good/bad.
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Re: Swimming...

Postby La » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:12 am

ultraslacker wrote:
La wrote:Do you run out of breath between each stroke, or only after several strokes? There's nothing wrong with stopping at the end of the pool to catch your breath, but it will really mess up your rhythm if you are stopping in the middle of the pool to take extra breaths. And then it's like a vicious cycle.


If I'm breathing between two strokes I can usually do the whole length with one breath in between. If I'm doing three strokes then I can make most of the length but then need extra breaths to finish the length. Both are improving.

Then stick to breathing every second stroke for now.

ultraslacker wrote:
Just out of curiosity: for how many seconds can you hold your breath?


I tried it just now and got 35 seconds. I have no idea what's good/bad.

I have no idea, either! :lol: I was just thinking that if it was only 20 seconds or so that you might have cause to say that you have "bad lungs," but I think I can only hold my breath for about 45 seconds and I consider my lungs to be just fine. ;)
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Re: Swimming...

Postby ultraslacker » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:24 am

Well, as a child I had asthma (not bad enough to be diagnosed, but bad enough to cause me distress...). I've had breathing trouble ever since, and it has caused me some grief while running and hiking. So I don't doubt that it plays a role in swimming too.
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Re: Swimming...

Postby Mark.AU » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:42 am

ultraslacker wrote:Well, as a child I had asthma (not bad enough to be diagnosed, but bad enough to cause me distress...). I've had breathing trouble ever since, and it has caused me some grief while running and hiking. So I don't doubt that it plays a role in swimming too.

I'm sure it must do in your case; 35 seconds is a relatively short time on breath holding. However, that really shouldn't be relevant in swimming - I'm sure that as you gain more confidence and develop smoother technique you will find that the breathing comes easier too. You've been swimming for what, three months? I think you've made great progress so far, keep it up!
"It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fcuking what."

Stephen Fry.


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