Race Stats

[mas_runner]

But surely if you had turned the wrong way you'd know, 32km sign and then you see the 41km sign, I'd have turned back and finished the job...

[Dr. S]

But surely if you had turned the wrong way you'd know, 32km sign and then you see the 41km sign, I'd have turned back and finished the job...

It was so obvious though, the half-marathons were at 19km so only 2.1K from the finish line and the marathoner still had WAYS to go.

[monkey]

I think there's a mistake in the calculation for the Ottawa half. This is me:

gun time:1:39:41.9
chip time: 1:37:48.1
10KM split time: 0:47:05

I don't understand how this passes me (there are others like this):

Gun : 1:39:14.9
Chip : 1:39:01.8
10km: 0:47:19

There is a flaw in my calculation. To check people who have passed you, I simply checked the ones with faster gun time and have a slower split than yours. While this works in most cases, but in the example jemez have suggested, runner A seeded himseld way ahead with the front pack, he has been slightly slower than jemez but always ahead of jemez the entire 21.1k. His chip time and 10k split were slower than jemez but runner A finished before jemez, runner A never literally passed jemez at or after the 10k split.

This is a bug, I would need to fix it, but I wanted to confirm if the split time is always based on chip time? not gun time? I think out of all the marathons and 30k that I have ran, it is always based on chip not gun time... could someone please correct me if I am wrong about this? thanks!

[monkey]

Last year in Whitby marathon, the 2nd half was a lonely course with few runners, lots out and back routes in industrial streets, you can easily remember who's ahead and behind you within around 30mins. It was not cool when I learned one runner I passed after 30k finished ahead of me... was this runner intended or unintended missing one of those out and back street? I don't know.

This year in Mississauga full, my friend was running his first full marathon, he missed the half/full split as there were a lot of half marathoners around his pace and no race marshall at the split. It was until he gotten to the 17K mark before he realized he may have missed the marathon turn, then he ran back to 16K water station to ask if he had missed the turn for the marathon. Volunteer told him to continue forward... *&^%? by the time, he saw 19K he knew the race was over, he wasn't going to run back to 13-14K mark and then proceed to the rest of the marathon. He was very upset with a world record "marathon" finish... but the finishing time was too obvious so they automatically corrected his time to half.

I'm thinking of adding a new feature to highlight the ones with unusual splits.

[jemez]

Ottawa definitely only uses the chip time for splits, makes sense that that would skew the calculation.

I did hear that a couple of people had odd 2nd half times in Ottawa last year & missed the 30km mat, but I don't think they ever adjusted the results to DQ them. I was thinking about this, essentially you could look for anyone who had a last 12 km pace 10% faster than the 1st 30 km, it would be really interesting to know how many people may have done this. There were plenty of signs for the half, but even with this I felt like I'd gone a long ways and started wondering if maybe I had missed the turn off - plus I wasn't paying attention to whether there were enough signs telling the full to go straight.

[jonovision_man]

so being a code geek, I wanted more numbers than what we get on sportstats.
I code this to show more stuff for longer races with splits, for now I've tested it with a few races such as Mississauga and ATB30.

http://racestats.felixwu.com/

if you find it interesting and want to see more races added to it just let me know.
comments, suggestions, bug reports are welcome

Cool!

2010 Toronto M?

jono

[canalrunner]

so being a code geek, I wanted more numbers than what we get on sportstats.
I code this to show more stuff for longer races with splits, for now I've tested it with a few races such as Mississauga and ATB30.

http://racestats.felixwu.com/

if you find it interesting and want to see more races added to it just let me know.
comments, suggestions, bug reports are welcome

Cool!

2010 Toronto M?

jono

If it is Toronto Goodlife, they already have this feature on their stats package. Also shows where you were on the course when the winner crossed the finish line and the winner in your age group. This sort of app. would be a great feature to market to either races or sportstats. That last part of the race analysis in a marathon is always important to do. Shows if you run an even split or even slightly 2-3 minute positive split, you will pass tons of people and be passed by few at virtually every pace.

[ABXF]

Ottawa definitely only uses the chip time for splits

How do you know this? I wasn't sure and seem to remember that it is gun time. I sent the question in a mail to sportstats.

[booboo]

Awesome.

Can you add Calgary? (after this weekend)

will do, could you provide the race result site URL?

http://www.winningtime.ca/11/11calgarym ... rathon.txt (Full)

http://www.winningtime.ca/11/11calgarym ... llhalf.txt (Half)

I hope this is what you need.

[jemez]

Ottawa definitely only uses the chip time for splits

How do you know this? I wasn't sure and seem to remember that it is gun time. I sent the question in a mail to sportstats.

OK, I know that this year in the half, and the last 2 years in the full the splits were chip time. Not sure about other races/years, but those ones I know for sure.

[monkey]

Ottawa definitely only uses the chip time for splits, makes sense that that would skew the calculation.

I've fixed the code to assume splits are chip time, as far as I know all the longer races I have done split time were chip time. If anyone knows any race that uses guntime at split mark please let me know.

the calculation now is done by comparing finish guntime and split guntime to see if you have literally passed or being passed.

[monkey]

Ottawa definitely only uses the chip time for splits

How do you know this? I wasn't sure and seem to remember that it is gun time. I sent the question in a mail to sportstats.

Hi KDG, When you get a response from sportstats could you please let me know? thanks.

[monkey]

so being a code geek, I wanted more numbers than what we get on sportstats.
I code this to show more stuff for longer races with splits, for now I've tested it with a few races such as Mississauga and ATB30.

http://racestats.felixwu.com/

if you find it interesting and want to see more races added to it just let me know.
comments, suggestions, bug reports are welcome

Cool!

2010 Toronto M?

jono

Hey Jon, like canalrunner mentioned TorontoM uses runpix.com! but I just discovered that runpix actually does the incorrect calculation as what I was doing! comparing finish guntime with split chiptime, which causes minor error in some situations.
I'll include 2010, 2009 and 2008 TorontoM soon.

[monkey]

http://www.winningtime.ca/11/11calgarym ... rathon.txt (Full)
http://www.winningtime.ca/11/11calgarym ... llhalf.txt (Half)

I hope this is what you need.

Calgary full added, have fun!

[canalrunner]

Ottawa definitely only uses the chip time for splits

How do you know this? I wasn't sure and seem to remember that it is gun time. I sent the question in a mail to sportstats.

Split times are chip time. Times on the results were the times on my watch and I was running chip time. Would be shocked if you heard different from sportstats.

[Hammie]

Nice work, and thanks for adding Calgary!

49 runners passed you after 21.1KM
12 runners you passed after 21.1KM

That wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, considering my 11 min positive split . Other people clearly had a worse time than I thought I did!

[ABXF]

but I wanted to confirm if the split time is always based on chip time? not gun time?

Sportstats says "chip time" in answer to the question "Can you tell me if the split times (10k, 21.1k etc.) in Ottawa Race Weekend Marathon results (and other results) are chip time (time since the runner passed the start mat) or gun time (time since the start gun)?".

[mcshame]

Love it! Really like the 98 runners I passed after 30k

[AjaxRunner]

It says that after the 10k mark of the Ottawa half, 56 runners passed me, but I passed 647 runners.

[mcshame]

Would you be able to add 2010 Niagara Falls Marathon?

http://www.sportstats.ca/display-result ... code=47290

http://results.sportstats.ca/res2010/casinom.htm

[Jo-Jo]

Before we all jump on C word, I think a good number of people would have inadverently shorted the course rather than purposely cheated. While there were some good signs, given the crowds at that point I could see how someone could have been hanging on the right side of road and just followed the crowd around the bend. It was also a site of good crowds and lots of noise.

Personally I am reluctant to call them cheaters or to get too upset about it. Everybody knows what they did or did not do and will deal with it. The confusion would have happened at the slower times as there were no right turning half marathoners when the 3:50 pace group when by that turn. Personally if I was first time marathoner who had trained to do the run, I would be devastated to know that I had shortened the course and hadn't run a full marathon. Hard to tick it off the bucket list.

I'm going to comment here as I was cheering at Pretoria Bridge. The two road marshalls were young, inexperienced and to be honest didn't have a clue what to do. They were standing on the sidewalk by the Royal Oak clapping for runners instead of directing them. After the elites went through I had several runners looking at me (ummm....I was kinda visible )and pointing...asking with their hand signals what direction to run.

Finally...I couldn't stand it anymore. I went over to the two Marshals and said..."yes...I know I'm going to sound very bossy...but I have some experience at working at road races and these runners need some direction. You need to position yourself so they know where to run. And also...you will need to make sure you move the spectators who are standing on the HalfM course off to the side before the HalfM elites come through" These young women (high school students) took my direction very cheerfully...I'm sure my gray hair helped . I actually did say to them..."is it okay if I'm bossy with you" and they nodded and said.."yes...we need help". They were nice gals!

So what I'm saying is that I doubt these runners purposely "cheated" and I suspect when they reached the finish line and discovered they had not run the full course would be extremely disappointed.

This was a good reminder for me too as I'm starting to organize the Run Course for K-Town...ensure your volunteers know their jobs and how to do it.

[Jo-Jo]

Oh...and I forgot to say...I think this is very cool Monkey...I'm a numbers junkie...love it!

[canalrunner]

Before we all jump on C word, I think a good number of people would have inadverently shorted the course rather than purposely cheated. While there were some good signs, given the crowds at that point I could see how someone could have been hanging on the right side of road and just followed the crowd around the bend. It was also a site of good crowds and lots of noise.

Personally I am reluctant to call them cheaters or to get too upset about it. Everybody knows what they did or did not do and will deal with it. The confusion would have happened at the slower times as there were no right turning half marathoners when the 3:50 pace group when by that turn. Personally if I was first time marathoner who had trained to do the run, I would be devastated to know that I had shortened the course and hadn't run a full marathon. Hard to tick it off the bucket list.

I'm going to comment here as I was cheering at Pretoria Bridge. The two road marshalls were young, inexperienced and to be honest didn't have a clue what to do. They were standing on the sidewalk by the Royal Oak clapping for runners instead of directing them. After the elites went through I had several runners looking at me (ummm....I was kinda visible )and pointing...asking with their hand signals what direction to run.

Finally...I couldn't stand it anymore. I went over to the two Marshals and said..."yes...I know I'm going to sound very bossy...but I have some experience at working at road races and these runners need some direction. You need to position yourself so they know where to run. And also...you will need to make sure you move the spectators who are standing on the HalfM course off to the side before the HalfM elites come through" These young women (high school students) took my direction very cheerfully...I'm sure my gray hair helped . I actually did say to them..."is it okay if I'm bossy with you" and they nodded and said.."yes...we need help". They were nice gals!

So what I'm saying is that I doubt these runners purposely "cheated" and I suspect when they reached the finish line and discovered they had not run the full course would be extremely disappointed.

This was a good reminder for me too as I'm starting to organize the Run Course for K-Town...ensure your volunteers know their jobs and how to do it.

That was my sense of Pretoria Bridge going thru at a 3:50 finishing time clip. Lots of noise, chaos, not much direction, could easily follow the turn as a marathoner especially if you were a slower marathoner and were in a large pack of half marothers. I did't even see marshalls there or anyone with a bull horn letting people know. I am sure the 60 year plus guy who laid down a 32 minute final 12 k knows he didn't run a complete marathon. Am personally not too worried how he deals with it: disappointed or guilty--neither feeling will be very good and both with have an asterisk.

[turd ferguson]

I don't want to hijack the discussion further, but it doesn't matter why you shorted the course. If you get to the finish and you've run 37k and don't know how that happened, don't cross the finish or DQ yourself. It doesn't matter that you went offcourse because of a volunteer, you become a cheater by accepting the flawed result.

[Jwolf]

I don't want to hijack the discussion further, but it doesn't matter why you shorted the course. If you get to the finish and you've run 37k and don't know how that happened, don't cross the finish or DQ yourself. It doesn't matter that you went offcourse because of a volunteer, you become a cheater by accepting the flawed result.

Good post.