Sprinter doping scandal widens

[MrBond]

Oops...

http://runningmagazine.ca/sections/news ... pionships/

[dgrant]

I can feel some empathy for Tyson Gay. Injuries really cost him so much, so I could see how he might view a little injury recovery "boost" as a victimless crime... Stealing back what was stolen from him. Doesn't make it okay, but doesn't make him a bad person either.

[fingerboy]

i wonder if someone had some money on the wc?

astafa powell cheating seems really senseless.... i mean maybe if he's going for masters records.

[richie-rich]

shorter list is probably who isn't cheating....

[jonovision_man]

shorter list is probably who isn't cheating....

Yes. 9.79* pretty much convinced me that Dick Pound was right - they're all doped, no other way to compete in sprinting at this level.

jon

[turd ferguson]

I don't think any of them are bad people. I just don't think any of them at this level are truly clean either.

Disappointed but not surprised. How could anyone be surprised by a positive test in this sport?

[dgrant]

I don't think any of them are bad people. I just don't think any of them at this level are truly clean either.

Disappointed but not surprised. How could anyone be surprised by a positive test in this sport?

I still want to believe in Usain Bolt. Apart from his performances, I don't see any red flags... physique, scandalous coaches, maintaining top performance after major injury or advanced age, etc... Fingers crossed anyway.

[turd ferguson]

I don't think any of them are bad people. I just don't think any of them at this level are truly clean either.

Disappointed but not surprised. How could anyone be surprised by a positive test in this sport?

I still want to believe in Usain Bolt. Apart from his performances, I don't see any red flags... physique, scandalous coaches, maintaining top performance after major injury or advanced age, etc... Fingers crossed anyway.

The only red flag for Bolt is that he wins (usually by outrageous margins). These days, that's probably the biggest red flag there is.

[La]

I don't think any of them are bad people. I just don't think any of them at this level are truly clean either.

Disappointed but not surprised. How could anyone be surprised by a positive test in this sport?

I still want to believe in Usain Bolt. Apart from his performances, I don't see any red flags... physique, scandalous coaches, maintaining top performance after major injury or advanced age, etc... Fingers crossed anyway.

That's exactly the same way I felt about Lance!

[jonovision_man]

I don't think any of them are bad people. I just don't think any of them at this level are truly clean either.

Disappointed but not surprised. How could anyone be surprised by a positive test in this sport?

I still want to believe in Usain Bolt. Apart from his performances, I don't see any red flags... physique, scandalous coaches, maintaining top performance after major injury or advanced age, etc... Fingers crossed anyway.

The only red flag for Bolt is that he wins (usually by outrageous margins). These days, that's probably the biggest red flag there is.

Definitely the fact he's running .1s faster than anyone ever is a red flag.

The other red flag for Bolt is the one Lance had - his teammates and buddies started going down to doping charges.

He also has links to a guy that doped up Marion Jones (Angel Hernandez)... just like Lance had links to Dr. Ferrari.
http://tenpercentorless.blogspot.ca/201 ... emist.html

Red flags, not concrete proof, but it starts to paint a picture.

jono

[dgrant]

The other red flag for Bolt is the one Lance had - his teammates and buddies started going down to doping charges.

He also has links to a guy that doped up Marion Jones (Angel Hernandez)... just like Lance had links to Dr. Ferrari.
http://tenpercentorless.blogspot.ca/201 ... emist.html

I don't see much in there other than a blogger speculating about a relationship and saying "I heard it through the grapevine". Not really on the same level as Lance having actual associates come out and say "I personally saw him do ____" or testify to knowledge under oath.

[QuickChick]

I thought this article was interesting. It talks about going after the people around the athlete, not just the athlete himself/herself. I think this is an important point. Too often athletes are the only ones who take the fall, while their dirty coaches/agents/entourages are allowed to continue in the sport. It also makes me wonder- so often you hear about athletes who say they never knowingly took anything. How possible is that, really? If I were a high-profile athlete, I would be really vigilant about anything given to me by my coach, asking about what's in that massage oil, etc. I'm not taking the blame off them, exactly, and I'm not sure I believe that they are "unknowing". However, I do believe the coaches/agents need to be taking more responsibility in the whole mess.

[Jwolf]

I thought this article was interesting. It talks about going after the people around the athlete, not just the athlete himself/herself. I think this is an important point. Too often athletes are the only ones who take the fall, while their dirty coaches/agents/entourages are allowed to continue in the sport. It also makes me wonder- so often you hear about athletes who say they never knowingly took anything. How possible is that, really? If I were a high-profile athlete, I would be really vigilant about anything given to me by my coach, asking about what's in that massage oil, etc. I'm not taking the blame off them, exactly, and I'm not sure I believe that they are "unknowing". However, I do believe the coaches/agents need to be taking more responsibility in the whole mess.

Some of the athletes aren't that smart about these things (they'll just take whatever the coach/trainer/doctor tells them to take as a "recovery supplement" or whatever). They will "assume" that the coach hasn't given them anything that will give a positive drug test, but many are always pushing the limits.

Also the athletes are essentially coached to say that they weren't aware of what they were taking or didn't knowingly take anything illegal, whether or not its true.

[QuickChick]

Yeah I figured that, it sounds really insincere. I do believe Ben Johnson was a victim of a dirty team- I've heard multiple reports of his, let's say, malleable mind and how he really isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I guess it just seems like you'd REALLY have to be a dull knife to be that clueless.

[HCcD]

I think it was only a matter of time ... now that they were victorius in the cycling world (i.e. Lance) , it is only fitting that they continue their work in the Track & Field, in particular, Sprinters ....

[jonovision_man]

The other red flag for Bolt is the one Lance had - his teammates and buddies started going down to doping charges.

He also has links to a guy that doped up Marion Jones (Angel Hernandez)... just like Lance had links to Dr. Ferrari.
http://tenpercentorless.blogspot.ca/201 ... emist.html

I don't see much in there other than a blogger speculating about a relationship and saying "I heard it through the grapevine". Not really on the same level as Lance having actual associates come out and say "I personally saw him do ____" or testify to knowledge under oath.

Could be a bit speculative... not just a blogger, though, it's repeated in a lot of media outlets. But hey, Lance's link to Dr. Ferrari was considered speculative at first too, until it wasn't.

jono

[Jwolf]

What's interesting with the Jamaican athletes that got caught (Powell and Sherone Simpson) is that they got caught with a banned stimulant. (People often assume steroids or maybe blood boosters.) It's not even clear that the stimulant gave them a competitive advantage. Some people think that the stimulants are "safer" and shouldn't be banned in the same way that steroids are. I disagree because they can be dangerous to the heart and expected use will encourage abuse. There could be threshold acceptable levels of some substances, though. Apparently, many athletes take them and just know (or think they know) how long they need to clear the system.

[Jo-Jo]

Yeah I figured that, it sounds really insincere. I do believe Ben Johnson was a victim of a dirty team- I've heard multiple reports of his, let's say, malleable mind and how he really isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I guess it just seems like you'd REALLY have to be a dull knife to be that clueless.

That's how I feel about Ben Johnson.
I still remember exactly where I was when I heard the news about his doping...standing at reception at KPMG...greeting a client. We were all stunned at the news....and very sad.

[Jwolf]

Donovan Bailey is in favour of a zero-tolerance approach; Ato Boldon doesn't think all of these stimulants found in supplements should be banned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23322223

[turd ferguson]

Donovan Bailey is in favour of a zero-tolerance approach; Ato Boldon doesn't think all of these stimulants found in supplements should be banned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23322223

I have no idea what Boldon is actually saying from a few contextless quotes, it sounds more like he's expressing sympathy for people who have inadvertent positives from undisclosed ingredients in supplements as opposed to Bailey's zero-tolerance even for inadvertent ingestion.

In any event, I'm with Bolden on this one. It seems that current rules have done a better job of catching athletes inadvertently taking the wrong kind of sudafed or supplement than they have at catching persistent doping programs.

My SIL was in China earlier this year for a tournament and they were under instructions to eat nothing they didn't bring with them - six days of energy bars and pasta from home - because of the unreliability of the local food supply and the likelihood of steroids in local meat.

[Jwolf]

My SIL was in China earlier this year for a tournament and they were under instructions to eat nothing they didn't bring with them - six days of energy bars and pasta from home - because of the unreliability of the local food supply and the likelihood of steroids in local meat.

I would think that warning would apply to any travelling competitive athlete. I don't see anything wrong with having to bring your own supplements.

Boldon is essentially saying, "Why should we ban these things that are rampant in supplements and everyone is using them?" I disagree. When he talks about "pushing the limits of their supplements" he's talking about finding things that have performance enhancing effects in so-called "natural" preparations.

It's no as if these athletes took the stuff "inadvertently". They knew it was there, knew it was banned, but thought it wouldn't be detected or would be out of their system in time for the test.

[Jo-Jo]

Donovan Bailey is in favour of a zero-tolerance approach; Ato Boldon doesn't think all of these stimulants found in supplements should be banned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23322223

I have no idea what Boldon is actually saying from a few contextless quotes, it sounds more like he's expressing sympathy for people who have inadvertent positives from undisclosed ingredients in supplements as opposed to Bailey's zero-tolerance even for inadvertent ingestion.

In any event, I'm with Bolden on this one. It seems that current rules have done a better job of catching athletes inadvertently taking the wrong kind of sudafed or supplement than they have at catching persistent doping programs.

My SIL was in China earlier this year for a tournament and they were under instructions to eat nothing they didn't bring with them - six days of energy bars and pasta from home - because of the unreliability of the local food supply and the likelihood of steroids in local meat.

I probably should know this...but what tournament was your SIL participating in.
Heck..I won't even feed my dog treats made in China...I can understand these instructions.

[turd ferguson]

Donovan Bailey is in favour of a zero-tolerance approach; Ato Boldon doesn't think all of these stimulants found in supplements should be banned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23322223

I have no idea what Boldon is actually saying from a few contextless quotes, it sounds more like he's expressing sympathy for people who have inadvertent positives from undisclosed ingredients in supplements as opposed to Bailey's zero-tolerance even for inadvertent ingestion.

In any event, I'm with Bolden on this one. It seems that current rules have done a better job of catching athletes inadvertently taking the wrong kind of sudafed or supplement than they have at catching persistent doping programs.

My SIL was in China earlier this year for a tournament and they were under instructions to eat nothing they didn't bring with them - six days of energy bars and pasta from home - because of the unreliability of the local food supply and the likelihood of steroids in local meat.

I probably should know this...but what tournament was your SIL participating in.
Heck..I won't even feed my dog treats made in China...I can understand these instructions.

Rugby 7s - I don't know which tournament.

[Jo-Jo]

Donovan Bailey is in favour of a zero-tolerance approach; Ato Boldon doesn't think all of these stimulants found in supplements should be banned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/23322223

I have no idea what Boldon is actually saying from a few contextless quotes, it sounds more like he's expressing sympathy for people who have inadvertent positives from undisclosed ingredients in supplements as opposed to Bailey's zero-tolerance even for inadvertent ingestion.

In any event, I'm with Bolden on this one. It seems that current rules have done a better job of catching athletes inadvertently taking the wrong kind of sudafed or supplement than they have at catching persistent doping programs.

My SIL was in China earlier this year for a tournament and they were under instructions to eat nothing they didn't bring with them - six days of energy bars and pasta from home - because of the unreliability of the local food supply and the likelihood of steroids in local meat.

I probably should know this...but what tournament was your SIL participating in.
Heck..I won't even feed my dog treats made in China...I can understand these instructions.

Rugby 7s - I don't know which tournament.

Okay...now I remember...and I should...I know someone in Kingston who's worked a lot with the women's National Rugby Team (Carla is an Athletic Therapist).

[Pat Menzies]

I remember Silken Laumann having trouble reading labels on cold medication and cross referencing them with the banned substances list.... or blaming someone else for that.
That incident was very quickly forgotten.