Gains from just running more (Poll)

[PinkLady]

I have heard from quite a few people now (both on RM and real life) that for new runners, you will continue to see fitness gains for awhile from the simple act of consistently running more at a comfortable/easy pace. Basically, that plugging along at easy pace and gradually increasing the volume, even without ANY speed/tempo/hillwork/etc., will result in getting better. I'm assuming 'better' means you can run faster at easy effort, and can race faster, even without dedicated speedwork.

So as I sit here trying to be disciplined and smart with my recovering ankle (which did not react well at all to the attempted speedwork on Tues), I am curious how long these 'beginner gains' lasted for you. Ironboy was telling me on Tues that he found he didn't even need to include speedwork until after a few years of consistent running, because he was getting improvements in fitness just by running more.

How true was this for you? And, what did you find made the biggest difference after the beginner's gains dropped off - speed intervals, longer tempos, tempo intervals, hillwork, etc. ?

I'm also wondering if 'tempo' (regular tempo, not tempo intervals), as defined by a run at 'comfortably hard' (so, RR's definition), counts as speedwork? I was going to include 4-5km at tempo pace in my weekly mileage, but I won't if that is also considered 'speedwork'. Tempos to me have always felt much less intense than speedwork, so I'm thinking they are okay as long as I feel fresh and don't go too hard.

[दिवंगत]

You'll make far more gains from tempo runs than you will from speed work.

[Darth Tater]

I'm not sure how long the beginner's gains lasted for me - I ran easier/longer for a year and a half, started training for my first half and incorporated intervals. Started training for my second half and got Achilles tendonitis. Recovered from that, started training for a full, including speedwork. Ran my first full, was going to attempt another full but ended up burning out a bit. Recovered from that, then did 183 straight days of running at whatever pace, whatever distance. Burned out from that, then Mrs Tater had the baby. Started back up from that and feel like I'm starting from a significant loss of fitness.

I used to love my tempo runs - I feel like they helped me the most.

[purdy65]

A LONG time - In fact I think I'm maxing out on gains from increasing base running just now - after 10 years.

Just now my PBs are still coming - but in smaller doses. Once I got up to the marathon distance, my 10K and half times dropped dramatically.

I do do speedwork though, but I didn't until about 3 years ago.

Lisa

[Irongirl]

yup. a LONG time.

I did 2 halfs (2:02 - May 2003, 1:55 - October 2003) and 2 fulls (4:34 - May 2004, 4:24 - May 2005) before I really did any focused "training." (So, I started 10k RR training in January 2003, and, I did my second marathong 2.5 years later in May 2005....)

I followed the RR schedules for that whole time - which is mostly base running, I didn't do a whole lot of tempos, and, when I did, it was mostly just "run harder". We didn't have Garmins back then, so, I really didn't know what pace I was doing....either "uncomfortable" or, "easy".

I did the hill training and speed work training, but, that was a SMALL fraction of my overall training.

[Tarsals]

I had been making gains for about 8 months with volume. Went from a 1:56 half, to a 1:36 half in about 9 months.

Got injured when I started doing speedwork too often, and when I had started running twice a day.

[PinkLady]

I followed the RR schedules for that whole time - which is mostly base running

Interesting you say that.....because, when I look at the 1/2 schedule, there's two tempos per week almost from the beginning, and then tempos/hills, and then tempos/speed.....so I've always been under the impression that the RR schedule is pretty heavy on the non-easy running.

Mileage-wise, the non-easy stuff has definitely been more than 10% of total weekly mileage.

[chunkymonkeymelonhed]

Miles, miles and more miles.
For me speedwork has caused nothing but injury. The three clinics I did all ended with something hurting. Twice I raced with the pain and last spring I was unable to run for almost two months and DNS the race.
I saw amazing gain from running and upping my mileage over the summer.
I love hills and see great benefit from them. I also love to up my pace in the second half of longer runs.

[Jwolf]

I followed the RR schedules for that whole time - which is mostly base running

Interesting you say that.....because, when I look at the 1/2 schedule, there's two tempos per week almost from the beginning, and then tempos/hills, and then tempos/speed.....so I've always been under the impression that the RR schedule is pretty heavy on the non-easy running.

Mileage-wise, the non-easy stuff has definitely been more then 10% of total weekly mileage.

My thinking too.... if anything, Running Room programs seem to push some people to do MORE hard running than most beginners really need, imho. This tends to be the problem with lots of group training programs; I think the coaches that design them figure most people won't pay for them if they are mostly easy mileage with maybe one hard run per week. And many people don't see the point of the easy miles (other than the long run) so they figure they can skip those runs. This leads many people down the path to injury.


My personal experience-- I started running regularly with my first Running Room half-marathon program-- at the time I wasn't exactly a beginner, but I had never stuck to a running program for more than a few months. But if we count there as my starting point-- when I joined the program I modified the plan to only three runs per week, and at most one harder run. For about two years I did improve quite a bit from MOSTLY easy running, although I did do a tempo run every other week or so. In that time I also increased from three days running to 4-5. When I later increased to an average of 6 running days per week, I improved even more, but still also then started to increase my hard running. Still-- my hard running is never more than about 20% of my weekly mileage, often less.

[Irongirl]

I followed the RR schedules for that whole time - which is mostly base running

Interesting you say that.....because, when I look at the 1/2 schedule, there's two tempos per week almost from the beginning, and then tempos/hills, and then tempos/speed.....so I've always been under the impression that the RR schedule is pretty heavy on the non-easy running.

Mileage-wise, the non-easy stuff has definitely been more than 10% of total weekly mileage.

I know - I'm wondering if maybe they've changed them.

Of course, I used to follow the "to complete" schedules - which I think was more steady runs then the timed ones.

[PinkLady]

I know - I'm wondering if maybe they've changed them.

Of course, I used to follow the "to complete" schedules - which I think was more steady runs then the timed ones.

I don't think it's a new thing, since I'm referring to the schedule from John Stanton's book...and my copy is really old, I bought it 5 years ago. I think you're right that it's the 'to complete' schedule that probably has less hard running....I've never used the 'to complete' schedule.

[scrumhalfgirl]

I started running "again" in July 2006 and if I hadn't had to take some time off for non-running health reasons, I think I'd still be seeing "easy running only" improvements now. As an example - I ran my first marathon in 4:14 in December 2008. Training for my second in November 2008, I had a more aggressive approach to training, and ended up struggling with injuries. I ran my second marathon in 4:11. That winter, I took a "run easy, run often" approach - I ran most days, sometimes only for 30 minutes, but my overall mileage was higher and I would say 98+% easy. I ran my third marathon in May 2010, six months after my previous one, in 3:56, and totally injury free.

[PinkLady]

Wow, if this thread isn't a testament to the run-easy, run-more approach, I don't know what is!

I started running "again" in July 2006 and if I hadn't had to take some time off for non-running health reasons, I think I'd still be seeing "easy running only" improvements now. As an example - I ran my first marathon in 4:14 in December 2008. Training for my second in November 2008, I had a more aggressive approach to training, and ended up struggling with injuries. I ran my second marathon in 4:11. That winter, I took a "run easy, run often" approach - I ran most days, sometimes only for 30 minutes, but my overall mileage was higher and I would say 98+% easy. I ran my third marathon in May 2010, six months after my previous one, in 3:56, and totally injury free.

That is an INCREDIBLE result. So, how did you gear up for race day? If almost all of your mileage was easy running, how often and how many weeks before your race would you 'practise' your race pace?

[scrumhalfgirl]

Wow, if this thread isn't a testament to the run-easy, run-more approach, I don't know what is!

I started running "again" in July 2006 and if I hadn't had to take some time off for non-running health reasons, I think I'd still be seeing "easy running only" improvements now. As an example - I ran my first marathon in 4:14 in December 2008. Training for my second in November 2008, I had a more aggressive approach to training, and ended up struggling with injuries. I ran my second marathon in 4:11. That winter, I took a "run easy, run often" approach - I ran most days, sometimes only for 30 minutes, but my overall mileage was higher and I would say 98+% easy. I ran my third marathon in May 2010, six months after my previous one, in 3:56, and totally injury free.

That is an INCREDIBLE result. So, how did you gear up for race day? If almost all of your mileage was easy running, how often and how many weeks before your race would you 'practise' your race pace?

Honestly? I didn't. My marathon pace became my easy run pace, basically. At the start of that training block, I did my easy runs at around 6:00 - 6:05/km. By the end, my easy runs were in the 5:40-5:45 range. This wasn't planned - it just became the easy pace I set out the door at on my 5-8 km normal loops. I don't do heart rate, so this was just perceived exertion.

Could I have run a faster marathon on the day with my training? Probably - I felt great at the end, but my goal was sub-4, and I took a more cautious approach. Could I have run a faster time with a more aggressive program? Almost certainly, but for me, I knew there was a risk trade-off of injury. And besides, I loved just getting out the door each day and running, and not worrying about the pace.

That worked for me! There are many ways to get to the same place.

[ultraslacker]

2003-2004: running on a treadmill, 30-40 minutes, 3-4 times per week

2005: started running outside, did my first 3 half-marathons. Times were 2:32, 2:26, and 2:20. In October of that year I got a stress fracture so had a bit of downtime before training for my first marathon.

2006: first marathon, 5:22. second marathon, 5:16 (sick as a dog).

2007: started the year with LOTS of easy miles, virtually no speedwork. third marathon, 4:56. First 50k, and a trail marathon. That year I pb'ed in EVERY distance, from 5k to the marathon. My halfM pb went down to 2:08, and my 10k pb was 59:18.


So that's not HUGE gains, but I certainly did little to no speedwork during that time (lots of hills and the occasional track session).

[Robinandamelia]

I'm still making gains and I've been running just under 2 1/2 years. I don't do any speedwork really, just worked on increasing the mileage so I could get through a marathon. My focus was making sure I had the endurance. I still think that's something I need to focus on to ensure I don't fade in the last 2-5K again.....

It'll be interesting to see if this increases speed. I'm running my first 5K this weekend after 1 1/2 years and all I've really focused on is endurance so it'll be interesting to see if I can improve on my 5K PB. More nervous about the 5K then I was about the marathon lol

[PinkLady]

Honestly? I didn't. My marathon pace became my easy run pace, basically. At the start of that training block, I did my easy runs at around 6:00 - 6:05/km. By the end, my easy runs were in the 5:40-5:45 range. This wasn't planned - it just became the easy pace I set out the door at on my 5-8 km normal loops. I don't do heart rate, so this was just perceived exertion.

Interesting!

I can do that! I do overcomplicate things, so I love hearing how well the simple approach has worked for you.

[La]

The 10-year "rule" really seemed to apply to me. I hit my peak (in terms of setting PBs and taking big chunks of time along with it) in my 10th year of running. But that also had to do with weight-loss, since I lost about 10 pounds that year.

[Avis]

I didn't vote because I am still a beginner! I hope to get lots and lots of gains still from just increasing my distances. Actually, I still don't really pay attention to distance while I'm running, just total time run. I sometimes look up my distance afterward, using gmaps pedometer. However, from what I can see so far (after a year of running), my gains have been in increasing endurance; not much increase in speed. I'm keeping the faith that the speed will come!

[AndyM]

I voted "more than 2 yrs" as well. Although, for me, I cannot say that is was specifically time or time AND specific training. I've never run an "A" race or a distance for the first time without a complete training plan that includes speed, tempo etc. FOr the majority of my training I've followed RR training plans which include tempo, speedwork and hills including for my first half marathon and my first marathon. I do think that the training has gotten easier for me over time though and if I've trained well for a race, I can sometimes "coast" on junk miles and still pull off 10K's or 1/2 marathons at close to PB times a season later. And I did get faster over time as well (the last year for pregnancy and post partum excepted). I ran my first 1/2 in 2004 in 2:06 and improved to around a 1:50 where I seemed to stay for 2007 and 2008. I ran my first marathon in 2007 in 4:02 and managed to improve this to 3:56 in 2009. Hmm... looks like my marathon running has halted my 1/2 improvement Hoping that I can make a comeback and keep getting faster since having my baby as I am still a ways away from my previous times.

Bottom line...just DON'T STOP!!!

[getfit]

This is my 7th year of running and I am finally starting to see consistent improvement. Part of the reason it has taken me so long, is that whenever I start to makes gains I get injured and then have to take time off. This year I managed to run a 1/2 injury free and that was a huge accomplishment for me.

[Jo-Jo]

I started running at the beginning of 2003 and did my first HalfM in May 2004 with a time of 2:08.
My second HalfM was May 2005 in 2:01
My third HalfM was September 2005 in l:55:30

I don't remember doing much speed work in the form of intervals. I did do some tempo runs, and also hill workouts. I often did strides at the end of a run...to work on form. I increased my running days from 3 to 4 days. In 2006 I concentrated on training for a full marathon.

[mcshame]

4 years and possibly still counting. I don't do alot of interval work, in the past they would get me injured. For me increasing mileage + tempo runs (long tempos as well) = faster

[ROW]

You'll make far more gains from tempo runs than you will from speed work.

It depends on the distance, I don't think your going to get fast at a 800-1500m by doing tempos.

[दिवंगत]

You'll make far more gains from tempo runs than you will from speed work.

It depends on the distance, I don't think your going to get fast at a 800-1500m by doing tempos.

Really, based on what? Speedwork is the icing on the cake and tempo runs are the cake. Without cake, icing will just make you sick.