What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
I'm running the Road2Hope marathon in November. I was away in Asia on business for the month after Dirty Girls but managed to get a reasonable amount of mileage in. Once I was back ion Canada, I jumped into the latter part of Higdon's advanced Marathon plan (sort of, I switched a few weeks around because it suited life better) and it has pace runs on Saturday prior to the Sunday long runs. I had picked a pace based on a conservative predicted marathon time from my half marathon PB in May and did a couple of pace runs based on that (6:00/km). Today was pretty hard to stay on pace. I really felt like going faster, so I went with it (5:46/km). My legs felt it a bit at the end, but I could have kept going at that pace for a while more.
Is that what it's supposed to feel like? Either one of those paces will result in a massive PB.
Some other random information:
- I run my long runs pretty slow and do speed work once a week with a run club
- mileage for 2011 has been between 200-250km/month. September looks like it will come in around 300km.
- I have run some big weeks, but the mileage tends to be spread pretty evenly rather than a really long run.
- my current marathon PB (4:33:xx) was run last year at Road2Hope. I was slightly hungover. I'm not planning that for this year.
Is that what it's supposed to feel like? Either one of those paces will result in a massive PB.
Some other random information:
- I run my long runs pretty slow and do speed work once a week with a run club
- mileage for 2011 has been between 200-250km/month. September looks like it will come in around 300km.
- I have run some big weeks, but the mileage tends to be spread pretty evenly rather than a really long run.
- my current marathon PB (4:33:xx) was run last year at Road2Hope. I was slightly hungover. I'm not planning that for this year.
The road to hell is paved. Run trails.
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
I'll be interested to hear the answer to this...
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
How long are the Saturday pace runs?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
If it ain’t broke, run through it -- Strider
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
My Coach(es) in my Spring Cycle had me running my Saturday runs at half marathon pace +10 to 15 seconds for up to 15 to 20K ... which was at around 4:40-4:45mpk pace .... In my current cycle, for Hamiton, they have me going at my 1/2 marathon pace at +/ - 10 seconds ... so anywhere from 4:20 to 4:40 mpk pace ... but, only maxing out at 8 to 12K ...
I am also doing speedwork and hill repeats during the week, as well, during this cycle ..
I am also doing speedwork and hill repeats during the week, as well, during this cycle ..
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
Kinda kool that the first 3 Maniacs on this thread is running the marathon in Hamilton or on November 6th ... ..
Trust the program, Jes, take the totality of your overall paces and schedule, and not just on your weekend race pace / lsd efforts ... My lsd pace is usually between 5:45-6:30mpk, depending on who I am running with .. and, project race pace for Hamilton is around 4:45-4:50mpk for 42.2K ...
Trust the program, Jes, take the totality of your overall paces and schedule, and not just on your weekend race pace / lsd efforts ... My lsd pace is usually between 5:45-6:30mpk, depending on who I am running with .. and, project race pace for Hamilton is around 4:45-4:50mpk for 42.2K ...
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
HCcD wrote:My Coach(es) in my Spring Cycle had me running my Saturday runs at half marathon pace +10 to 15 seconds for up to 15 to 20K ... which was at around 4:40-4:45mpk pace .... In my current cycle, for Hamiton, they have me going at my 1/2 marathon pace at +/ - 10 seconds ... so anywhere from 4:20 to 4:40 mpk pace ... but, only maxing out at 8 to 12K ...
I am also doing speedwork and hill repeats during the week, as well, during this cycle ..
And with the same coaches, I have tempo runs on Saturday which are supposed to be 10K pace +15 sec, and they are up to about 7k. I know these runs are helping in my shorter races, but do they translate to improvements in the marathon?
If it ain’t broke, run through it -- Strider
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
HCcD wrote:Kinda kool that the first 3 Maniacs on this thread is running the marathon in Hamilton or on November 6th ... ..
I'm running NYC, not Hamilton. Same day, though.
"Maybe I will be my own inspiration." - UltraMonk (Laura)
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright
"Everywhere is walking distance if you have enough time." - Steven Wright
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
jes wrote:How long are the Saturday pace runs?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
The pace runs are 16k in hard weeks, 10k in cutback weeks. Today was 16k (actually 15.5k because I mis-programmed my Garmin. )
I do my long runs at 6:45-7:00/km and the half marathon was run at 5:31/km with no taper.
The road to hell is paved. Run trails.
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
BJH wrote:jes wrote:How long are the Saturday pace runs?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
The pace runs are 16k in hard weeks, 10k in cutback weeks. Today was 16k (actually 15.5k because I mis-programmed my Garmin. )
I do my long runs at 6:45-7:00/km and the half marathon was run at 5:31/km with no taper.
Interesting. My long runs are usually in the same range, but my half was a 6:18 (no taper as well), but I know I could have gone faster. I can't even dream of doing a marathon at 6:00 or faster (at this point). (But that's me, not you )
If it ain’t broke, run through it -- Strider
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
jes wrote:HCcD wrote:My Coach(es) in my Spring Cycle had me running my Saturday runs at half marathon pace +10 to 15 seconds for up to 15 to 20K ... which was at around 4:40-4:45mpk pace .... In my current cycle, for Hamiton, they have me going at my 1/2 marathon pace at +/ - 10 seconds ... so anywhere from 4:20 to 4:40 mpk pace ... but, only maxing out at 8 to 12K ...
I am also doing speedwork and hill repeats during the week, as well, during this cycle ..
And with the same coaches, I have tempo runs on Saturday which are supposed to be 10K pace +15 sec, and they are up to about 7k. I know these runs are helping in my shorter races, but do they translate to improvements in the marathon?
Take a looksie at your Army 1/2 performance ....
I ran today's 10K at my current 10K pace, as it turned out, and it actually felt comfortable ...
You are getting your body and mind use to running at your 10K pace or faster, on a regular basis, and along with the speedworkouts and hill workouts during the rest of the week, the program should allow you to handle that marathon pace, in particular with a full taper .. all things being equal on rest day ...
For me, after speedwork and tempo, I find my race pace relative comfortable now ...
This cycle, I am only running between 50-80K or so a week, but lots of faster paces and higher intensity than last cycle ... while, I ran a lot of volume with no hills and limited speedwork ... but long tempo/race pace ..
I believe the key is to go with a program for at least a year to reap the training effects, rather than just a singele cycle, to adapt for adaptation, etc. So, if for whatever reasons, it doesn't happen in Hamilton, I am willing to stick with the program for another cycle, next May, wherever it may be ..
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD
What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
It's pretty hard to say because it depends on a lot of things including how rested you are before the run, how long the run is, your total mileage, etc. But the short answer for people that are in the 4-4:30 marathon range is that it should feel harder than an easy run but not TOO hard (kind of like the top end of your natural easy pace range), and definitely not as hard as a tempo run.
That said, my MP portions of my long run on Thursday felt pretty tough. Yet they were only 6 sec/km slower than my 16k easy run on Tuesday (5:34/km vs 5:40/km). So I'm still trying to figure it out.
That said, my MP portions of my long run on Thursday felt pretty tough. Yet they were only 6 sec/km slower than my 16k easy run on Tuesday (5:34/km vs 5:40/km). So I'm still trying to figure it out.
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Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
jes wrote:BJH wrote:jes wrote:How long are the Saturday pace runs?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
The pace runs are 16k in hard weeks, 10k in cutback weeks. Today was 16k (actually 15.5k because I mis-programmed my Garmin. )
I do my long runs at 6:45-7:00/km and the half marathon was run at 5:31/km with no taper.
Interesting. My long runs are usually in the same range, but my half was a 6:18 (no taper as well), but I know I could have gone faster. I can't even dream of doing a marathon at 6:00 or faster (at this point). (But that's me, not you )
Is it possible that you may need to re-adjust your training paces, across the board?
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
Jwolf wrote:It's pretty hard to say because it depends on a lot of things including how rested you are before the run, how long the run is, your total mileage, etc. But the short answer for people that are in the 4-4:30 marathon range is that it should feel harder than an easy run but not TOO hard (kind of like the top end of your natural easy pace range), and definitely not as hard as a tempo run.
That said, my MP portions of my long run on Thursday felt pretty tough. Yet they were only 6 sec/km slower than my 16k easy run on Tuesday (5:34/km vs 5:40/km). So I'm still trying to figure it out.
Are you also, by chance, happening to be running a marathon on November 6th, as well ???
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD
What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
jes wrote:How long are the Saturday pace runs?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
This is really quite doable if the rest of the training is there. Esp for someone like BJH with a solid sub-2:00 half-marathon time and lots of mileage. Some programs don't even have MP runs but do have other speedwork - you can't look at just the long run pace in isolation.
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What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
HCcD wrote:Are you also, by chance, happening to be running a marathon on November 6th, as well ???
So far all of us in this thread are.
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Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
Jwolf wrote:jes wrote:How long are the Saturday pace runs?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
This is really quite doable if the rest of the training is there. Esp for someone like BJH with a solid sub-2:00 half-marathon time and lots of mileage. Some programs don't even have MP runs but do have other speedwork - you can't look at just the long run pace in isolation.
I think you, La and Marg should just skp NYC this year and come to where the real party is gonna be on November 6th .. Hamilton, Baby !!!
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
I have nothing of value to add but feel compelled to post here for the Nov 6th connection.
Chilly 1/2 - March 4
Montreal 1/2 - April 29
NCM 1/2 - May 27
Manitoba 1/2 - June 17
Army 1/2 - Sept
Montreal 1/2 - April 29
NCM 1/2 - May 27
Manitoba 1/2 - June 17
Army 1/2 - Sept
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
Marg wrote:I have nothing of value to add but feel compelled to post here for the Nov 6th connection.
Perhaps, we could rename this thread as the 11-6-11 Club ...
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- mas_runner
- Bill Crothers
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Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
When I was training for a marathon I did my easy runs at 6:00/km and then ran the race at ~5:20/km for the race. It felt pretty easy for about 24kms and after that I had to slow it down to 5:30 for the next 5km and then 5:40 for the next 5 km and so on. Last 10km were HARD but it felt just about right.
Maybe you should experiment with some shorter marathon paced runs and try different paces over 15-18 kms..
Maybe you should experiment with some shorter marathon paced runs and try different paces over 15-18 kms..
PBs
5th Sep 2015 - Run Ottawa free 5km - 21:05
21st Jun 2015 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 10km - 45:45
16th Jun 2013 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 15km - 1:11:44
16th Apr 2016 - MEC 10 miler - 1:20:21
12th Apr 2015 - EY R4R Half Marathon - 1:41:15
26th May 2013 - Ottawa Marathon - 3:43:51
2017 races - coming up
7th May - Defi Entreprise 10km
28th May - Ottawa Half Marathon
17th Sep - Army Run Half Marathon
5th Sep 2015 - Run Ottawa free 5km - 21:05
21st Jun 2015 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 10km - 45:45
16th Jun 2013 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 15km - 1:11:44
16th Apr 2016 - MEC 10 miler - 1:20:21
12th Apr 2015 - EY R4R Half Marathon - 1:41:15
26th May 2013 - Ottawa Marathon - 3:43:51
2017 races - coming up
7th May - Defi Entreprise 10km
28th May - Ottawa Half Marathon
17th Sep - Army Run Half Marathon
What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
mas_runner wrote:When I was training for a marathon I did my easy runs at 6:00/km and then ran the race at ~5:20/km for the race. It felt pretty easy for about 24kms and after that I had to slow it down to 5:30 for the next 5km and then 5:40 for the next 5 km and so on. Last 10km were HARD but it felt just about right...
The question wasn't how it should feel in the race, but how it should feel as a training run. Totally different in my experience. And the last 10k feel tough no matter what pace and no matter how well or poorly you pace. I slowed down to about 6:30/km in the last 10k of my last marathon (from about 5:35/km) and the last 10k felt much harder than the first.
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Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
Jwolf wrote:The question wasn't how it should feel in the race, but how it should feel as a training run. Totally different in my experience. And the last 10k feel tough no matter what pace and no matter how well or poorly you pace. I slowed down to about 6:30/km in the last 10k of my last marathon (from about 5:35/km) and the last 10k felt much harder than the first.
Goodness. This is making re-evaluate *ever* wanting to do a full.
Sandra...Air Force wife & Professional Kid Wrangler...I knit to stay sane, I run to eat!
2012 - year of perseverance, endurance, survival, and earning blackmail material for life.
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PB's:
Army Run HM (Sep 18, 2011) - 1:55:14
2012 - year of perseverance, endurance, survival, and earning blackmail material for life.
My running log: http://www.runningmania.com/forum/viewt ... 18&t=44092
PB's:
Army Run HM (Sep 18, 2011) - 1:55:14
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
HCcD wrote:jes wrote:BJH wrote:jes wrote:How long are the Saturday pace runs?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
The pace runs are 16k in hard weeks, 10k in cutback weeks. Today was 16k (actually 15.5k because I mis-programmed my Garmin. )
I do my long runs at 6:45-7:00/km and the half marathon was run at 5:31/km with no taper.
Interesting. My long runs are usually in the same range, but my half was a 6:18 (no taper as well), but I know I could have gone faster. I can't even dream of doing a marathon at 6:00 or faster (at this point). (But that's me, not you )
Is it possible that you may need to re-adjust your training paces, across the board?
Is that question for me or BJH?
If it ain’t broke, run through it -- Strider
- scrumhalfgirl
- Lynn Williams
- Posts: 19368
- Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:50 am
- Location: Ottawa
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
Not doing a marathon on November 6th, but enjoying this interesting discussion!
I just looked back in my log from 2009 when I did my last full - my long runs were 5:58-6:00 min/km., and my race pace ended up being 5:37 (was targeting 5:40). During that training cycle, my "easy" pace - the pace I normally went at when I went out for a regular 5-8km run, but wasn't trying on purpose to go slowly, dropped from around 6 min to 5:40 - so my easy and race paces were very similar.
I didn't do any marathon pace work during that training cycle. my tempo runs were at around half pace (I ran a 1:48 half during that training cycle).
I just looked back in my log from 2009 when I did my last full - my long runs were 5:58-6:00 min/km., and my race pace ended up being 5:37 (was targeting 5:40). During that training cycle, my "easy" pace - the pace I normally went at when I went out for a regular 5-8km run, but wasn't trying on purpose to go slowly, dropped from around 6 min to 5:40 - so my easy and race paces were very similar.
I didn't do any marathon pace work during that training cycle. my tempo runs were at around half pace (I ran a 1:48 half during that training cycle).
Jesse's 2017 Plans
April - Boston Marathon
May - Sporting Life Ottawa 10K
May - Ottawa Half Marathon
April - Boston Marathon
May - Sporting Life Ottawa 10K
May - Ottawa Half Marathon
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
jes wrote:HCcD wrote:jes wrote:BJH wrote:jes wrote:How long are the Saturday pace runs?
I'm interested in hearing responses as well. I have a hard time believing in making a jump between, for example, a 6:30 min/km LSD pace for 32k and a 6:00 min/km race pace for 42k. I know that's the point of the pace runs, but unless they're pretty long, do they do any good?
The pace runs are 16k in hard weeks, 10k in cutback weeks. Today was 16k (actually 15.5k because I mis-programmed my Garmin. )
I do my long runs at 6:45-7:00/km and the half marathon was run at 5:31/km with no taper.
Interesting. My long runs are usually in the same range, but my half was a 6:18 (no taper as well), but I know I could have gone faster. I can't even dream of doing a marathon at 6:00 or faster (at this point). (But that's me, not you )
Is it possible that you may need to re-adjust your training paces, across the board?
Is that question for me or BJH?
For you, specifically ... and, actually for BJH, as well, since you mentioned it ...
Race Results: http://itsmyrun.com/index.php?display=p ... unner=HCiD
- mas_runner
- Bill Crothers
- Posts: 2339
- Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:37 pm
- Location: Hull, QC
Re: What is a marathon pace run supposed to feel like?
PinkLady wrote:Goodness. This is making re-evaluate *ever* wanting to do a full.
I'd recommend doing it, just to feel that last 10km, it is indescribable to be honest, you want it so bad, it hurts so much, you just keep on driving yourself forward, it is the best/worst experience of my running life, when you hit that line after all that you have been through, you feel....i'm going to let you find that out for yourself
PBs
5th Sep 2015 - Run Ottawa free 5km - 21:05
21st Jun 2015 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 10km - 45:45
16th Jun 2013 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 15km - 1:11:44
16th Apr 2016 - MEC 10 miler - 1:20:21
12th Apr 2015 - EY R4R Half Marathon - 1:41:15
26th May 2013 - Ottawa Marathon - 3:43:51
2017 races - coming up
7th May - Defi Entreprise 10km
28th May - Ottawa Half Marathon
17th Sep - Army Run Half Marathon
5th Sep 2015 - Run Ottawa free 5km - 21:05
21st Jun 2015 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 10km - 45:45
16th Jun 2013 - UR 4 Men's Cancers 15km - 1:11:44
16th Apr 2016 - MEC 10 miler - 1:20:21
12th Apr 2015 - EY R4R Half Marathon - 1:41:15
26th May 2013 - Ottawa Marathon - 3:43:51
2017 races - coming up
7th May - Defi Entreprise 10km
28th May - Ottawa Half Marathon
17th Sep - Army Run Half Marathon
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