Marathon runners are arrogant, narcissistic, babies

[c_mcpeake]

Lady VO2 - we are weird and yes this is posted in the wrong section (I blame my bookmarks . Glad you liked it. It means there is one less person out there wanting to kill me.

PaleSnail - and here I though I was going to be able to offend everyone. Your post made me smile.

[DougG]

Since you asked; I read half of it then had enough. What was your point other than to criticize marathoners and make fun of them? Anyone can do that. Big deal.
I have never run a marathon nor will I likely ever do so, so you weren't attacking me. But, even if you were so what? I'm a middle aged guy who runs short distances pretty slowly. If I cared what others thought about my running, then I would have quit long ago. I am happy to see people run. Period. I congratulate everyone who laces 'em up and gets out there, no matter how far they run, or how fast (or slow) they are.

I only get upset when others want to stick me in a box and devalue what I am and what I do in some attempt to make themselves feel more important. Its kind of sad really.

Funny, you attempt to "devalue" marathoners (at least in the little bit I read). If it makes you feel good to call other people names, then that's kind of sad.

[Jwolf]

Since you asked; I read half of it then had enough. What was your point other than to criticize marathoners and make fun of them? Anyone can do that. Big deal.
I have never run a marathon nor will I likely ever do so, so you weren't attacking me. But, even if you were so what? I'm a middle aged guy who runs short distances pretty slowly. If I cared what others thought about my running, then I would have quit long ago. I am happy to see people run. Period. I congratulate everyone who laces 'em up and gets out there, no matter how far they run, or how fast (or slow) they are.

I only get upset when others want to stick me in a box and devalue what I am and what I do in some attempt to make themselves feel more important. Its kind of sad really.

Funny, you attempt to "devalue" marathoners (at least in the little bit I read). If it makes you feel good to call other people names, then that's kind of sad.

You missed the point, Doug. He was using the language (turning it around on marathon runners), but then says he doesn't mean it-- that he just wanted to see the reaction.

Unfortunately many people who read only the first few paragraphs probably came to the same conclusion. You have to read the whole thing to get it. But some people will be put off and miss the point-- is that how you intended it Chris?

[Jo-Jo]

Since you asked; I read half of it then had enough. What was your point other than to criticize marathoners and make fun of them? Anyone can do that. Big deal.
I have never run a marathon nor will I likely ever do so, so you weren't attacking me. But, even if you were so what? I'm a middle aged guy who runs short distances pretty slowly. If I cared what others thought about my running, then I would have quit long ago. I am happy to see people run. Period. I congratulate everyone who laces 'em up and gets out there, no matter how far they run, or how fast (or slow) they are.

I only get upset when others want to stick me in a box and devalue what I am and what I do in some attempt to make themselves feel more important. Its kind of sad really.

Funny, you attempt to "devalue" marathoners (at least in the little bit I read). If it makes you feel good to call other people names, then that's kind of sad.

You missed the point, Doug. He was using the language (turning it around on marathon runners) but not intending to actually insult people.

Unfortunately many people who read only the first few paragraphs probably came to the same conclusion. You have to read the whole thing to get it. But some people will be put off and miss the point-- is that how you intended it Chris?

[DougG]

You missed the point, Doug. He was using the language (turning it around on marathon runners), but then says he doesn't mean it-- that he just wanted to see the reaction.

Unfortunately many people who read only the first few paragraphs probably came to the same conclusion. You have to read the whole thing to get it. But some people will be put off and miss the point-- is that how you intended it Chris?

Jen, thanks for clearing that up. Unfortunately I thought what I read was garbage and stopped. He wanted reaction, in that case I guess he succeeded.

[canalrunner]

As Austin Powers' dad said, "there are only two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of others and the Dutch."

As one of those Boston runners (although funny, I have never bought the jacket) I have always thought that it was best to avoid negativity and focus on what works for you. Not sure I have ever heard this Ultra versus Marathon slagfest but then again I have never gone looking for it either (bit like not hanging around a bar after closing time--not sure I look for a fight). I wouldn't think that it is a large percentage runners on either side and not sure there is some large attempt by marathoners to devalue what others are doing.(at least the marathoners I hang around with) In any case, as others have said, marathoner, 5ker, ultrarunner, miler, whatever, I respect what people choose to do, and not sure that I worry about what people say about what I am doing. There will always be people who have things to say. Some of it will be useful, some of it will be useless. People doing something active whatever it is deserves more kudos than crappy comments.

Not sure the blog was needed but if you feel good about it, that is fine. All the best in your running, whatever distance or surface you are on and at whatever speed. In my mind, it is all good.

[purdy65]

I think Canalrunner took the words out of my mouth.

[West Grey Runner]

Chris, for your next race ...



Oh and don't worry you can still wear Orange...

[c_mcpeake]

Hi Doug - I think there was a great number of marathon runners that did what you did, stopped reading before you got to the end. The point of the first part of the blog was to inflame, no doubt about it, I mean look at the title. The reason I did that was to try and make people understand that writing and slagging things that other people work hard at and love has a real effect on those you are talking about. I aimed it at marathoners as that is where most of the garbage is coming from.
It worked and in some cases it worked too well.

I am not devaluing marathoners, not at all. I have run more then 60 road races and 9 marathons. I belong to a very well known road running club. I have given 3 days a week of my time for more then 2 years coaching marathon clinics of mostly new marathoners who are middle and back of the pack runners. I am thrilled when I see most of then reach their goals especially when they have worked so hard to get there. I think boston is an awesome race and a premier event. Trying to get your BQ is very difficult for most runners and a worth while goal.

I am also a only slightly faster then middle of the pack runner. I dont care how fast or slow or far anyone runs, I am just glad that they do. I dont run for others and on most levels dont care what they think. That said it goes back to the main point of my blog post. Saying crap about what someone works so hard to achieve and loves has a big impact. I know you say you dont care about what others think but you do at least some or you would not have posted.

Sorry if I offended you. It was not meant to in the way you took it.
BTW I have had my blog for more then 3 years and I believe this is the first time I have ever written anything like this. Most of my outrage in my writing when there is any is pointed at myself, my own stupidity and failing. Kind of the Bernstien Bears style of writing ...... dont do this kind of dumb mistake.

However what I said need to be said. If you doubt that look at the comments in the trail section or my blog. At RW the ripping of me continues even now. mostly of a personal nature not about what I said. It kind of proves my point
cheers

[c_mcpeake]

Jwolf - yes exactly, thanks for that. Many people didnt read the whole thing because they got to mad. I am being ripped hard in RW forum often by people who start off by saying "didnt read ANY of it" and then attack me on a personal level. Not what doug was doing just to be clear. If I hadnt offended people the way I did then when they read Dan's attack on Ultra Running later in the blog they wouldn't have thought it any big deal. Thats human nature. I hoped by getting them to feel the same kind of anger us Ultra people are feeling when attacked that they might take something away from this.

This worked for some, others didnt get it but thats okay. I felt it need to be said so I said it.

Canalrunner - Thanks for the comment. I agree with most of what you said and most of the people I run with are marathoners. I dont care what speed or distance people run at all. I am a to each his own type of person. That said I did feel what I said needed to be said. I had finally had enough of the elitist attitude that I am constantly seeing especially towards a part of running that I love (ultras). I have had lots of negative reaction and lots of positive reaction so I think that is a good thing. I wanted to make people think about it.

Do I feel good about the post ... in some ways not really. I didnt want to create as BIG of a negative reaction as I did. The people on the runningmania site have been great with some good comments and insights. In RW I am being ripped and vilified mostly in a very personal way and mostly not over anything I actually said except for the title. I gave up trying to respond there long ago.

Once again .. I have nothing against boston at all. Its a great race and I do plan to / hope to run it sometime in the near future. Not this year tho as I will be running NYC hopefully. Ironically I will buy the jacket

[fingerboy]

You'll love this article then:

http://www.nzrun.com/article/11404-The- ... of-running

[cbaker1]

I understand where NZ author is coming from and what their concern is. I certainly don't review stats, but I agree many of the elite athletes today in North America could be equal to the elites in North America a few decades ago. However, what about the older age groups? I bet (no proof but I love to gamble) that masters (over 40) times have come down substantially over the years.

I think there is a spirit of competition among many athletes today. Should I be forced to have some of my entry fee go towards more prize money or athletic organizations for elite training? I think there is a balance. In Toronto, Scotia marathon gears to elites with larger prize money, where as Goodlife caters to the everyday athlete and only offers small prize money. If some marathons want to do away with medal and shirts and post race entertainment and provide more money for prizes give it a try. No one is stopping them. I just wonder how many people would sign up for $85-$100 for a marathon with no shirt, medal or post race food / entertainment. Some would, some wouldn't. Why doesn't the author help organize such an event. I suspect that many people do want the little extras. Look at the popularity of Disney races or the Rock N Roll franchise. Both are adding races like crazy and can get a way with charging about average fees. Not to go to prize money, but for post race concerts, fancy shirts / medals etc. Also where would advertising dollars go to? it would go to whomever can obtain the most participants for the demographic of their products.

So to close, lets see IAAF (I think thats the initials of the organization Scotia belongs to and is a Gold or Silver member) force their race directors to offer higher prize money and less for average runner. For those of us that want to support the elites and sub-elites we will enter them. For others, they can continue to enter the smaller " grass roots " races.

[fingerboy]

I don't think the IAAF can do that or would want to. The base of the federation (International Association of Athletics Federations) is amateur athletics. It really doesn't have a strong link to world marathons, though they are still sanctioned. IAAF is more concerned I think with Diamond League international high end competition.

But my thoughts on Steve Boyd's piece are:

1) You can not discount the massive benefits to society that the modern running phenomenon in North America is giving. I think he acknowledges that.
2) I disagree that sport is dying here. There are always ebbs and flows in the ranges of atheles
3) I do think however there is a gap in post collegiate running. As I've mentioned before there are hundreds of runners who can run under 33min in a 10k in Canada at the university level. But there's no real drive afterwards.
4.a) We just have different socio-economic conditions in Canada. While something like hockey and skiing are heavily encouraged (just two popular example) and are developed if a person shows talent at the right age, we don't all need to run to make a million dollars or face a life of hardship farming or no jobs.
4.b) Excelling at running or any one task is not necessarily the be all and end all of the world. I'm sure lots of Kenyans would trade our lives and their abilities in a heartbeat. With that same token, I'm not sure we've explored all the genetic talent here either. We don't need to.
5) I don't think kicking people out of the sport or changing it from mass participation will make others more competitive. It's always the same - there are 20 guys with elite/sub talent at the start and they have their race, and the rest of us follow. We're not hurting their chances.
6) While I would enjoy it if we had more standardized racing events, in the end winning would come down to the current best and whatever events they competed in (ie if we had 6 major Canadian marathons a year nobody would run all of them thus some others could get to the top). But it would be fun to watch or strive for.

[DougG]

Sorry if I offended you. It was not meant to in the way you took it.

No, I wasn't offended at all, I was just making a point. You have your reasons for posting your blog, which is fine. Posting controversial blogs leaves one open to criticisms of many kinds.
It's nothing personal.

[Joe Dwarf]

Was curious, so I wandered over to rw forums to see the fuss. Found the article in the beginners' forum. Here it's posted in race reports. A little more attention to which forum you are posting in might yield better results.

[turd ferguson]

Sorry if I offended you. It was not meant to in the way you took it.

No, I wasn't offended at all, I was just making a point. You have your reasons for posting your blog, which is fine. Posting controversial blogs leaves one open to criticisms of many kinds.
It's nothing personal.

OTOH, a blog post entitled "A modest proposal for a little respect" doesn't get read by anyone.

[AirForceRunner]

I don't think the IAAF can do that or would want to. The base of the federation (International Association of Athletics Federations) is amateur athletics. It really doesn't have a strong link to world marathons, though they are still sanctioned. IAAF is more concerned I think with Diamond League international high end competition.

But my thoughts on Steve Boyd's piece are:

1) You can not discount the massive benefits to society that the modern running phenomenon in North America is giving. I think he acknowledges that.
2) I disagree that sport is dying here. There are always ebbs and flows in the ranges of atheles
3) I do think however there is a gap in post collegiate running. As I've mentioned before there are hundreds of runners who can run under 33min in a 10k in Canada at the university level. But there's no real drive afterwards.
4.a) We just have different socio-economic conditions in Canada. While something like hockey and skiing are heavily encouraged (just two popular example) and are developed if a person shows talent at the right age, we don't all need to run to make a million dollars or face a life of hardship farming or no jobs.
4.b) Excelling at running or any one task is not necessarily the be all and end all of the world. I'm sure lots of Kenyans would trade our lives and their abilities in a heartbeat. With that same token, I'm not sure we've explored all the genetic talent here either. We don't need to.
5) I don't think kicking people out of the sport or changing it from mass participation will make others more competitive. It's always the same - there are 20 guys with elite/sub talent at the start and they have their race, and the rest of us follow. We're not hurting their chances.
6) While I would enjoy it if we had more standardized racing events, in the end winning would come down to the current best and whatever events they competed in (ie if we had 6 major Canadian marathons a year nobody would run all of them thus some others could get to the top). But it would be fun to watch or strive for.

I read Boyd's piece as well, but took it from where it came from. Boyd has run in the 13 minute range for 5 km, and even over 40, is till in the 14 minute range. His 10 km performances are on the elite level as well.
I met him once, and have nothing but respect for his work ethic and what he does for others, but read his article as a lament by the elite for the elite.

[Jwolf]

I don't think the IAAF can do that or would want to. The base of the federation (International Association of Athletics Federations) is amateur athletics. It really doesn't have a strong link to world marathons, though they are still sanctioned. IAAF is more concerned I think with Diamond League international high end competition.

The IAAF is the governing body of athletics world-wide and definitely oversees road racing, including marathons. They make the rules about sanctioning road races (course requirements for records, timing, prize money, etc.). IAAF used to have "amateur" in the name but not any more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAAF_Road_ ... bel_Events

[Jo-Jo]

I don't think the IAAF can do that or would want to. The base of the federation (International Association of Athletics Federations) is amateur athletics. It really doesn't have a strong link to world marathons, though they are still sanctioned. IAAF is more concerned I think with Diamond League international high end competition.

But my thoughts on Steve Boyd's piece are:

1) You can not discount the massive benefits to society that the modern running phenomenon in North America is giving. I think he acknowledges that.
2) I disagree that sport is dying here. There are always ebbs and flows in the ranges of atheles
3) I do think however there is a gap in post collegiate running. As I've mentioned before there are hundreds of runners who can run under 33min in a 10k in Canada at the university level. But there's no real drive afterwards.
4.a) We just have different socio-economic conditions in Canada. While something like hockey and skiing are heavily encouraged (just two popular example) and are developed if a person shows talent at the right age, we don't all need to run to make a million dollars or face a life of hardship farming or no jobs.
4.b) Excelling at running or any one task is not necessarily the be all and end all of the world. I'm sure lots of Kenyans would trade our lives and their abilities in a heartbeat. With that same token, I'm not sure we've explored all the genetic talent here either. We don't need to.
5) I don't think kicking people out of the sport or changing it from mass participation will make others more competitive. It's always the same - there are 20 guys with elite/sub talent at the start and they have their race, and the rest of us follow. We're not hurting their chances.
6) While I would enjoy it if we had more standardized racing events, in the end winning would come down to the current best and whatever events they competed in (ie if we had 6 major Canadian marathons a year nobody would run all of them thus some others could get to the top). But it would be fun to watch or strive for.

I read Boyd's piece as well, but took it from where it came from. Boyd has run in the 13 minute range for 5 km, and even over 40, is till in the 14 minute range. His 10 km performances are on the elite level as well.
I met him once, and have nothing but respect for his work ethic and what he does for others, but read his article as a lament by the elite for the elite.

I haven't read the piece... but I read his blog, and chat with him 4 or 5 times a year. I agree with Rick. I know that some of the local runners are somewhat intimidated by him (yes...he is opinionated...don't get him started on John Stanton )but he's always been encouraging and not at all condescending towards me and my recreational running efforts.