Biting off more than I can chew

[MichaelMc]

Wow, we're all over the map on this one!

First question (always) is: what are we attempting to improve? Lactate threshold? VO2 max? Race specific speed? To me, talking about rep distances and rest times hinges on what you're going after, and 5k has a big component of each, and no one exercise covers all of them well.

With VO2 max, I'm with Pat on this: I'd usually go a little longer and a little more rest. 1k to 1200m with up to equal rest time is pretty common. Many shorter ones can work, too, though.

LT work you'd want to shorten up the rest, but I'm a fan of longer LT efforts (12-20 minutes).

Lots of ways to get there, but they only work if the duration of the effort and rest make sense with what you're going after.

[Pat Menzies]

The longer reps (1km and up) can cover V02 max and race speed.
The long LT(15-20 minutes) reps are good for putting together an extended effort, similar to a race.
Short reps with rests tend to make the average person good at doing just that.
Many people mention how Soccer or Hockey can make you very good at short, sharp efforts broken up with rests, but you almost never hear of soccer players being very good at long races or hockey players being able to go like a speed-skater.

Effective racing is about being able to get in that high speed cruising zone and that's hard to do if you stop your running and take a break before you even find that zone.

[Ironboy]

Wow, this certainly give me a whole lot to think about while coming up with a new training plan.

When I'm on the bike in the winter on the trainer, I do 5 min hard (at some target wattage say 200w) and 5 min easy (at 120w). I start with 3 sets then try to build to 4 sets then 5 sets. When I get to the point that I can do a 6th, even if it's torture, I up the target wattage (say 220w) and go back to 3 sets.

Does that strategy translate to running intervals.

My short term goal may be to run a fast 5km, but ultimately I want to extend that speed to longer races (eventually the Marathon).

Thoughts?

[MichaelMc]

Wow, this certainly give me a whole lot to think about while coming up with a new training plan.

When I'm on the bike in the winter on the trainer, I do 5 min hard (at some target wattage say 200w) and 5 min easy (at 120w). I start with 3 sets then try to build to 4 sets then 5 sets. When I get to the point that I can do a 6th, even if it's torture, I up the target wattage (say 220w) and go back to 3 sets.

Does that strategy translate to running intervals.

My short term goal may be to run a fast 5km, but ultimately I want to extend that speed to longer races (eventually the Marathon).

Thoughts?

Sounds like a VO2 max workout (ie "intervals"); it really isn't something I'd focus on as primary speedwork for a long time. VO2 max develops quickly and hits the point of diminishing returns quickly. You have to keep working it from time to time to maintain it, but long term gains will come elsewhere. Not saying "don't do it", just saying "don't make that the only focus". Someone who has a highly developed VO2 max from one sport will see a shorter course of gains, too.

5K is fairly VO2 max intensive, but it correlates poorly with success in longer races, especially marathon.

[Wu wei]

Try this:
30x200m on :45 w/ :15s rest (so.. 1 per minute)

Then build 10 more reps a week til you reach 200.

[Dstew]

The other option, and the one I prefer, is to extend the distance of your reps and keep the equal recovery and pace the same.

It is rarely a problem to run at goal pace from a pure speed perspective and your primary goal is extending the distance you can run at set paces.
So just to simplify it if you were doing 5x1km at 4:00 per/km with equal recovery, I would upgrade to 5 X 1200 at 4:00 per/km rather than thinking about going faster or shortening recoveries.
The purpose of this type of workout is to run at your highest aerobic level without introducing much of an anaerobic component, and also to extend the duration that you can hold that speed for.
You can't do that as effectively by making the workout transition into something more appropriate for racing a mile.

I read about this sort of work out in Runners World several years ago - the French Track team used it and with that work out, went from 20:10 + to 19:35.

It one way to get the mind and body use to running that distance in the time you desire but in managable bites. The last kilometer I ran in the race with merely my last rep.