Improving over the season?

[ROW]

Most guys I know have improved over the whole season, while I ran slower each race. I don't really understand.

My races: 4km 15:41 3:55 p.km. 6km: 24:59 4:09 p.km 5.1km ( actually 5.5km) 22:03 4:00 p/km, 5km 19:50 3:58 p.km

A guy I met who runs for medway: Summer 5km 20:21 4:04 p.km 4km 14:40 3:40 p.km, 5.25km 18:43 3:33 p.km
6km 23:05 3:50 p.km, 5.5km 3:32 p.km, 5.25 18:02 3:26 p.km

And my teammate: 5km summer 21:52 4:22 p.km 5km mid season 19:19 3:51 p.km, 4km 14:29 3:37 p.km, 5.25km 19:23 3:41 p.km 6km 23:48 3:58 p.km, 5.5km 19:50 3:36 p.km, 5km 18:44 3:44

With my training being the same as my team mates, and the guy from medway, whose training is worse than ares, how is it that they improve so much, when I basically stay where I was at from the beginning of the season?

[HCcD]

Perhaps, just a case of specificity and focussed efforts on running the short stuff, rather than being a 'Jack of all trades and Master of None' ?? (i.e. soccer, swimming, track, short course, long course, cycling, etc.)

And restng and recovery before a big race / event ... and, not being injured and/or having physical limitations, such as ITB, etc ...

[Pat Menzies]

I would think it is mainly because most guys you are comparing yourself to likely didn't run nearly as much over the summer. They would tend to thrive on a typical high school program.
You ran hard all summer(peaking in your time trials) and probably went into the start of season stale and not ready for the sudden change in training style.
You were also apparently plagued by injury and never had a single race that felt good all the way.
That's going to have a significant impact on your race to race progression.

[ROW]

I would think it is mainly because most guys you are comparing yourself to likely didn't run nearly as much over the summer. They would tend to thrive on a typical high school program.
You ran hard all summer(peaking in your time trials) and probably went into the start of season stale and not ready for the sudden change in training style.
You were also apparently plagued by injury and never had a single race that felt good all the way.
That's going to have a significant impact on your race to race progression.

I'd like to forget the time trials, since most of them were short, I think I can barely break 19 all out.

[Pat Menzies]

I knew they were short However you were still running them hard. Also there is the psychological impact of thinking you're doing better than you are and having unrealistic expectations going into the season. If you think you're going to run well under 18:00 and it turns out around 19:00 is your best you will be running races in the wrong zone for optimum performance.
You'll run better once you come to terms with your actual ability level and get healthy.

[ROW]

I knew they were short However you were still running them hard. Also there is the psychological impact of thinking you're doing better than you are and having unrealistic expectations going into the season. If you think you're going to run well under 18:00 and it turns out around 19:00 is your best you will be running races in the wrong zone for optimum performance.
You'll run better once you come to terms with your actual ability level and get healthy.

So basically i've established 19:50 is my PB for 5km, but I can do so much better, and I know it, I can run a 4:53 1500, but my 5km predicts a 5:19.

[Kristen]

Most guys I know have improved over the whole season, while I ran slower each race. I don't really understand.

My races: 4km 15:41 3:55 p.km. 6km: 24:59 4:09 p.km 5.1km ( actually 5.5km) 22:03 4:00 p/km, 5km 19:50 3:58 p.km

A guy I met who runs for medway: Summer 5km 20:21 4:04 p.km 4km 14:40 3:40 p.km, 5.25km 18:43 3:33 p.km
6km 23:05 3:50 p.km, 5.5km 3:32 p.km, 5.25 18:02 3:26 p.km

And my teammate: 5km summer 21:52 4:22 p.km 5km mid season 19:19 3:51 p.km, 4km 14:29 3:37 p.km, 5.25km 19:23 3:41 p.km 6km 23:48 3:58 p.km, 5.5km 19:50 3:36 p.km, 5km 18:44 3:44

With my training being the same as my team mates, and the guy from medway, whose training is worse than ares, how is it that they improve so much, when I basically stay where I was at from the beginning of the season?

I'm going to throw this question back at you now that you've had some good suggestions from others here.

What does your gut tell you you need to do to hit your time goals?
When do you do your best?

[BJH]

Haven't you been having IT band issues that have been affecting the end of your races?

[ROW]

Haven't you been having IT band issues that have been affecting the end of your races?

Yeah, but still, I should be running faster even with a injury.

[MINITEE]

Haven't you been having IT band issues that have been affecting the end of your races?

Yeah, but still, I should be running faster even with a injury.

How exactly does one run faster with an IT band issue? Inquiring minds want to know.

If you don't properly recover from something like that now, it may affect your long term running.
(That's just me erring on safe instead of wanting to train harder because you think you can run faster than you are)

[ROW]

Haven't you been having IT band issues that have been affecting the end of your races?

Yeah, but still, I should be running faster even with a injury.

How exactly does one run faster with an IT band issue? Inquiring minds want to know.

If you don't properly recover from something like that now, it may affect your long term running.
(That's just me erring on safe instead of wanting to train harder because you think you can run faster than you are)

I should be fine, it's been getting a lot better.

[Pat Menzies]

You can only build on good training and good races. If you aren't able to race well or train well you are going to either stagnate or slip backwards.

[QuickChick]

So what's your plan for the next little while? Are you doing track in the spring?
I'm having ITB issues too, and have been considering my plan of attack as well. I think a wise idea would be to first get that IT band back into order. Get a massage, use the stick, and rest (or run easy if you can run). This winter, try and build up your mileage again gradually, and try to gradually get to the point where you can run hard again. That's my plan... I'm hoping by maybe Dec/Jan I'll be able to do two speed workouts a week again. Then train consistently all winter so by the time track rolls around you're not burnt out, just solidly fit. I'm hoping to be at the point where I can race whenever and be fit for it- none of this putting all the eggs in one basket stuff.

[ROW]

So what's your plan for the next little while? Are you doing track in the spring?
I'm having ITB issues too, and have been considering my plan of attack as well. I think a wise idea would be to first get that IT band back into order. Get a massage, use the stick, and rest (or run easy if you can run). This winter, try and build up your mileage again gradually, and try to gradually get to the point where you can run hard again. That's my plan... I'm hoping by maybe Dec/Jan I'll be able to do two speed workouts a week again. Then train consistently all winter so by the time track rolls around you're not burnt out, just solidly fit. I'm hoping to be at the point where I can race whenever and be fit for it- none of this putting all the eggs in one basket stuff.

I'm pretty much recovered, i'm taking no time off, after the race next week, I am building my mileage up to about 60km per week, probably starting around 35-40km until track starts, mostly hard intensity workouts for 5km-10km, long runs are going to be shorter than the summer, making 14km-16km the longest run, high mileage didn't work for me in the summer to xc season, and the top runner in the province ( he runs a 16:05 km) as a midget ran in the summer 45km a week with high intensity workouts. So I am going to follow on what he did since I am not joining a running club until xc starts next year. Since I am going to be running the 10km relay or the 5km at around the bay, I want to make a major Pb there. So to sum it up:
-60km a week at peak mileage
-starting at 8km for long run and building up to 14-16km long run
-3 intensity workouts a weeks, with running 5 days a week.
-6 swim sessions a week with 4 days of speed and 2 days of endurance swimming = 20-25km a week
-3 days on the stationary = 90km a week
So probably hitting around 170-180km at peak with crosstraining, running, and training for lake erie.

[Pat Menzies]

The difference is that the top guys running well on low miles are born with systems that work as if they've already done high mileage, then the intensity is added to that. You need to do miles and intensity to even come close.
It's probably decision time for continuing with swimming if you really want to excel at running.

[ROW]

The difference is that the top guys running well on low miles are born with systems that work as if they've already done high mileage, then the intensity is added to that. You need to do miles and intensity to even come close.
It's probably decision time for continuing with swimming if you really want to excel at running.

But there are some amazing runners my age that are triatheletes, like I heard of a guy in highschool or in university that does tri's, and he runs a 15:03 5km in xc.

[Jwolf]

The difference is that the top guys running well on low miles are born with systems that work as if they've already done high mileage, then the intensity is added to that. You need to do miles and intensity to even come close.
It's probably decision time for continuing with swimming if you really want to excel at running.

But there are some amazing runners my age that are triatheletes, like I heard of a guy in highschool or in university that does tri's, and he runs a 15:03 5km in xc.

I think what Pat is trying to say is that some people already have more base speed without having to build up to very high mileage. Others have to do more running just to get to their starting point.

So you might have to giving up the swimming in order to focus on running and get up to higher mileage, or deciding whether you'd rather focus on swimming. The faster guys can do both on less running mileage.

[ROW]

The difference is that the top guys running well on low miles are born with systems that work as if they've already done high mileage, then the intensity is added to that. You need to do miles and intensity to even come close.
It's probably decision time for continuing with swimming if you really want to excel at running.

But there are some amazing runners my age that are triatheletes, like I heard of a guy in highschool or in university that does tri's, and he runs a 15:03 5km in xc.

I think what Pat is trying to say is that some people already have more base speed without having to build up to very high mileage. Others have to do more running just to get to their starting point.

So you might have to giving up the swimming in order to focus on running and get up to higher mileage, or deciding whether you'd rather focus on swimming. The faster guys can do both on less running mileage.

I think I am going to just experament these two seasons, and see if more intensity with less mileage works for me. It's only my midget year, and if I joined a club I would only do speed anyways.

[Pat Menzies]

The fast guys doing triathlons are not fast because they're doing tris though. They're fast AND they do tris.
Working on your speed is still a good idea, but mostly because you can develop that best when you're younger.