garmin or stop watch when racing

[alexk]

Just wondering what people use or prefer when racing? My Garmin is on its last legs (keeps freezing and battery dies before it should) so I can't trust it for the NCM. I don't really want to buy a new one at this point so I thought I'd use my watch. I've come to rely on my Garmin as a security blanket of sorts; to keep me on pace (even though it lost its signal during Chicago and NYC and wouldn't read my pace). If I use a watch, I figure I can follow a pace group, know my splits and just run witout the hassle of checking my Garmin every minute (which I tend to do). It could actually be liberating! Thoughts? Thanks.

[La]

Use your watch in conjunction with the km markers on the course and a pace band around your wrist. That should suffice. I have a Garmin and use it in training, but I don't use it for pacing in races because it's not accurate enough.

[purdy65]

I use my Garmin in races, but only the timing aspect. I use a combination of elapsed time with the K markers, ignoring the distance.

I was absoultely fascinated to see how close my garmin was in Missy though! Only .04K off!

Lisa

[Jwolf]

I also use my Garmin essentially the same way I use a stop-watch in a race-- only looking at the time/pace at the kilometre or mile splits and not at instantaneous pace. A stop-watch can do the same thing, but if you're not used to using the Garmin that way I'm not sure it will be liberating-- maybe frustrating unless you're used to it. I also use the Garmin 305 for HR info during and after the race, and would miss that.

I did forget to shut off auto-lap in my last race, though, so I was getting the split times on my watch and not by the markers. It was sort of fun to watch the difference in lap pace on the watch vs. the course, but you can't really do that in your head after the first few kilometres. By the end I was off by about 0.3K, or about 5 sec/km. The problem with shutting off autolap is that you lose the "lap pace" feature, which is what I tend to look at most in training, so I might just keep using it.

[NewFinnLoper]

I've never owned a Garmin so I just use my watch and hit the lap counter at each mile/km...works for me...

[ultraslacker]

Always the garmin. I am admittedly dependent. :P

(Actually for my first 50k I forgot the garmin at home... after the first 5 minutes of panic, I settled in and just enjoyed the day... it's easier though when you're not racing for a specific time!)

[SteveF]

I can't remember now, does NCM have markers for every KM ?

Steve

[mas_runner]

I can't remember now, does NCM have markers for every KM ?

Steve

Yes

[MichaelMc]

I wear my Garmin while racing, but I don't RELY on it. I always have a pace band with me (usually stapled to my bib), and I know the timing splits I'm looking for. I check the first couple of splits to make sure I've got the right rythym and after that I'm mostly on autopilot.

There is a new style Garmin (normal watch sized) coming out so waiting for that one (or a sale on the other ones) is probably wise. In that situation I'd just do the stopwatch. One idea on your existing one, if you haven't tried it, is clearing the memory. If you fill (or nearly fill) the memory, they have a tendency to freeze and misbehave.

[Doonst]

I don't trust Km markers. Most are right, but not always. It can drive you crazy when they're not. Plus I run a lot of trail races, Garmins are your only clue.

[drghfx]

What happened to running by feel? Wasn't there an article on here a week or so ago about Simon Whitfield taking training in the US just to run by feel?

[La]

What happened to running by feel? Wasn't there an article on here a week or so ago about Simon Whitfield taking training in the US just to run by feel?

A timing device (Garmin or watch) is still helpful in calibrating how you feel with the pace you are running. As you get better at doing it, you need the watch less and less.

[Jwolf]

What happened to running by feel? Wasn't there an article on here a week or so ago about Simon Whitfield taking training in the US just to run by feel?

It was actually about precision in pacing. It also talked about the imprtance of feeling the right paces, but you can use a garmin as a tool for that too.

I think a lot of people are saying they don't rely in the garmin but it can be a really good tool. I know personally if I relied only on feel I wouldn't be pushing myself enough in training.

[turd ferguson]

I think a lot of people are saying they don't rely in the garmin but it can be a really good tool. I know personally if I relied only on feel I wouldn't be pushing myself enough in training.

This - I've become a Garmin convert for exactly this reason - both to push myself when I need to be pushing myself and to hold myself back when I need to hold myself back. And also to ensure my pace is reasonably even over an entire run.

If I was better at pacing myself I wouldn't need one, but I'm not Simon Whitfield.

[Fireinbelly]

Most elite runners are very good at running by feel due to the high training demands, coaching and all other aspects that go into making them perform at their best. Once you compete at this level for a period of time it is unlikely that one would need to focus on their pace as they just know.

As per me, I've used both the Garmin and a regular timex Ironman watch. The Garmin is a very useful tool and has helped me tremendously in training to insure that I stay within my pace on certain days. This being said, I have found it to be a little bit hit and miss during races. In big city races I just leave it at home as the signal can be problematic and it can also take away from the race experience when too much emphasis is placed on being on pace. The watch has worked fine for me in races and seems to keep me pretty relaxed about the run and what is going on around me. Of course, everyone has an idea of what works for them.

[Darth Tater]

I've never owned a Garmin so I just use my watch and hit the lap counter at each mile/km...works for me...

+1

[alexk]

Good to hear different povs. I've raced marathons with and without a Garmin and both experiences have been fine. Racing by feel is good but tough if you are afraid of pushing too hard. I love my Garmin for pacing (slow and fast), but I do find it can be distracting when I race. And it hasn't worked in the big city races which threw me off a bit. I think I'll use my watch and wear the pace band on my bib (good idea Michael, thanks). I'm more of a mile person than km. Does anyone know if the NCM course marks miles (likely not since it's in Canada)? Thanks again for your replies.

[MichaelMc]

Most elite runners are very good at running by feel due to the high training demands, coaching and all other aspects that go into making them perform at their best. Once you compete at this level for a period of time it is unlikely that one would need to focus on their pace as they just know.

As per me, I've used both the Garmin and a regular timex Ironman watch. The Garmin is a very useful tool and has helped me tremendously in training to insure that I stay within my pace on certain days. This being said, I have found it to be a little bit hit and miss during races. In big city races I just leave it at home as the signal can be problematic and it can also take away from the race experience when too much emphasis is placed on being on pace. The watch has worked fine for me in races and seems to keep me pretty relaxed about the run and what is going on around me. Of course, everyone has an idea of what works for them.

True, but as a counter example, Ryan Hall had a Garmin on for Boston and checked it constantly. He chose a pace he knew he could run and thought could win and let the other competitors "surge". It was quite interesting following the race, as the leaders pulled away from him, then dropped back multiple times while he kept running steadily. This is not a traditional way for an Elite to race, but Hall did beat Meb Keflezighi (who surged with the others) and he ran a time that would USUALLY have won. It wasn't a popular choice, but I'm not sure it wasn't a good strategy (the best he could have done that day): guess we'll never know.

Elites and we "Joe average" runners do differ in this way. Their extreme endurance allows them to run very close to their lactate threshold for a long time. For most runners, the pace you can hold for 42.2km doesn't feel THAT hard for the first 32km: Elites run higher a higher percentage of their top speed, so it is harder right off the start.

[drghfx]

First off, the question was about racing and not training. I would make the case that some days you have it and some days you don't. If you try to run at a certain pace on a day you don't have it, you are running too fast and will pay for it later.

I know a coach who coaches one of the top female marathon runners in Canada. He wishes she would toss her Garmin away. I don't know whether he feels that way about Garmins in general or just with this particular woman.

[Jwolf]

First off, the question was about racing and not training. I would make the case that some days you have it and some days you don't. If you try to run at a certain pace on a day you don't have it, you are running too fast and will pay for it later.

You can just as easily make racing mistakes without using a Garmin, though. Are you also saying people should ignore split times while racing? A Garmin is a tool- it can be used well and it can also be misused, but using one doesn't prevent good racing. Using a also Garmin doesn't mean you can't also be in touch with your body signals.

know a coach who coaches one of the top female marathon runners in Canada. He wishes she would toss her Garmin away. I don't know whether he feels that way about Garmins in general or just with this particular woman.

Either way, that's one coach and one athlete. Not everyone likes them, no. But may people do find them very useful (Ryan Hall and Robbie-T come to mind.) You'll see similar debate about using heart rate monitors-- not a tool for everyone, but many people, including some elite athletes do use them in racing and training.

[Pat Menzies]

I would say that a Garmin could be good for running a strong race if you can't run well by perceived effort, poor if you are actually trying to win a race.
Very few races are won by people running a "Garmin smart" race.
Winning races requires getting involved with what's happening and hoping you have a bit more than what you "know" you can do and hopefully more than anyone else can do on that particular day.
I just let my watch run during a race and observe what I'm getting from my perceived effort on the day. I don't let it dictate whether I should be speeding up or slowing down.

[scrumhalfgirl]

Use your watch in conjunction with the km markers on the course and a pace band around your wrist. That should suffice. I have a Garmin and use it in training, but I don't use it for pacing in races because it's not accurate enough.

this is what i do as well!

[Jogger Barbie]

For me, sometimes my Garmin, sometimes just my watch. I am really, really bad at pacing, always go out too fast, and the Garmin is good for helping me to somewhat stay on pace. My last two marathons I ran with a pace bunny and plan to do that in Ottawa as well, but if for some reason that doesn't work out, the Garmin will be good to have. And I do kind of like tracking the Garmin laps against the km signs along the way, and seeing how closely (or not!) they line up. Plus, it's kind of fun to download the results later and have a record of the race.

OTOH, I have done a few races where I really didn't want to be watching my pace, just wanted to run "what felt good", and for those I left the Garmin at home, with no regrets.

[alexk]

Jogger Barbie, I also tend to go out too fast. The Garmin helps me in this way. It also helps me stay on track when I want to slow down (later stages in the race). I wouldn't mind not having it at all if I didn't have a time goal. I realised today my goal time is in between pace bunnies (about 3:23 - 3:25...). There's a 3:30 bunny and a 3:20 bunny but no 3:25. I'm torn - if I feel super and confident on race day and the conditions are perfect, I could go with the 3:20 group. My plan all along has been to run a slightly conservative first half and then pick it up in the second half. If I run with the faster group, I'll have to follow their plan. If I do it on my own, with just a watch and splits, I have to trust I can get myself to where I soooo want to be...The logical part of me knows the pacing thing isn't rocket science and if I've trained to run a pace within my abilities (which I've done) I can do it, it's just sometimes hard to convince myself of that! I'm going to run my MP run this weekend with just a watch (and a fast friend to pace me) and see how it goes.

[SteveF]

I would say that a Garmin could be good for running a strong race if you can't run well by perceived effort, poor if you are actually trying to win a race.
Very few races are won by people running a "Garmin smart" race.
Winning races requires getting involved with what's happening and hoping you have a bit more than what you "know" you can do and hopefully more than anyone else can do on that particular day.
I just let my watch run during a race and observe what I'm getting from my perceived effort on the day. I don't let it dictate whether I should be speeding up or slowing down.

I agree totally, for an experienced racer. For me, I used my Garmin for my first 5k. I knew approximately how fast I wanted to be going, so I used my watch to get to that pace. Once there I ran with the people around me. Periodically checking my pace, if they slowed at all, I passed and sped up until I hit the next pack. I didn't let the watch slow me down but it definitely helped me not over reach. Plus, without it I'm not sure I would know if I was going fast enough. Anything sub 4:00 feels tough and I wouldn't know the difference between 3:35 and 3:45. And it won't ever stop me from pushing too hard in a foot race!

Steve