I hate being slow...

[Syscrush]

Hey all. I don't think I'm looking for specific advice or pointers, I'm just getting a bit nervous/overwhelmed at the prospect of running my 2nd-ever half in 10 weeks. I did the waterfront half last year, and it was one of the biggest accomplishments of my life just to finish - I've never been a runner, and just a few years ago I was almost 80 lbs overweight. To get to the point where I could do the half and enjoy it, and running in general was a big deal for me.

However, I was really slow - 2:21 or something like that. And I decided I wanted to do it again, but that I also wanted to keep at it and get my weight down some more and get my speed up, because 2:20-something is just too damn long to keep running! Well, here we are 42 weeks later and I'm no leaner than when I ran it last year, but also no fatter (unlike this winter/spring). In principle I could cut another 10-15 lbs over the next 10 weeks, and that's what I'm going to try to do, but I'm realizing now that that probably won't make a very big difference in my speed.

For the 10 weeks that remain, my focus will be on just getting into shape to run 21.1k without injury. If I can knock even 5 mins off that time and finish with fewer blisters than last year I'll consider it progress, but if I do give this another go I'd really like it to not be so slow. Two guys at work have also run a half, and one of them looks very similar to me in terms of body type/composition (I'm 5'10" and 183 lbs now, he's maybe 5'11"/190), but he ran a 1:32 this spring. And when I look at my finishing pics from last year, most of the people around me look like semi-dumpy older ladies.

I'm an OK cyclist (finished a 100k race in about 3:45 a few weeks ago), and I keep a nice high cadence doing that - on my fixed gear bike I've spun up to 180 RPM a few times, so it's not like my legs have some inability to move quickly. Last year my resting HR was down into the mid-50's by the time of the race so I felt like my cardio was probably pretty good, hopefully I'll get to that same range again as the event gets closer this year. And I do a little bit of olympic-style lifting (snatch and clean & jerk) - where power & speed are very important. I don't compete, it's just playing around, but I'm not hopeless at it (unlike how I often feel about running).

Through most of last year's training, I continued to hate running. It wasn't until I did my first 10-mile training run that I got an overwhelming runner's high and I was hooked. Since then, I've enjoyed every run I've done - I daydream about it, I have dreams about it at night sometimes, I encourage others to give it a try and stick with it, and I wake up feeling happy on the days I have a run planned. But it feels like I'm kind of doomed to be perpetually slow.

Who knows, maybe I'll have a speed breakthrough somewhere along the line like I've already had for pleasure & for endurance. It would be nice.

Anyhow, I guess I thought I'd share in the hopes that this would have some therapeutic value for me or for someone else who thinks they're slow because they're only running a 1:45 and they wanna crack 1:30.

[ultraslacker]

First step: stop comparing yourself to others. ;) Your time is what it is, and there's absolutely nothing wrong or shameful about a 2:21. Work hard, keep running consistently, and your time will improve. Once you have a good base (maybe you do already, I don't know) you can work on specific speed work. You're not going to jump from 2:21 to 1:30 just because you are the same size as the other guy. It will take some time and dedication.

In my first year of distance running I did 3 half marathons, and each was 6 minutes faster than the last. This was just a result of my body adapting to the distance and the training. I wasn't actually getting faster, but my endurance was improving and that made a huge difference (for a reference point, my first was 2:32, then 2:26, then 2:20, all within about 5 months).

Some of the others can give you more specifics of *how* to do it, but I don't see any reason why you can't get faster; just keep at it. :) How much are you currently running?

[BJH]

How much are you actually running? Have you been running a consistent distance each week since your last half?

[La]

Total weekly mileage build-up over the year will have a big impact on your time, mostly because you won't "fade" as the race gets longer. Can you do some 10K races over the summer to see where your fitness is at and whether you've improved?

2:21 might seem "slow" based on what you think guys your age/build are running, but there are so many other factors that play into it. As Holly says, don't compare yourself to others, just try to be better than you were last time.

[SteveF]

First step: stop comparing yourself to others.

+1

Also, what you can do in other sports has no impact on performance in running. My buddy who's much heavier than me can lap me in a pool but wouldn't keep up for a block running against me. Another tri friend calls his cycling muscles "baggage" when he runs. He claims to be faster when he doesn't cycle so much. To see speed sooner, you have to practice running fast, not just running more or longer.

[Syscrush]

Thanks all for the encouragement and advice.

I was running quite a bit last fall, fell off the wagon and got fat & out of shape over the winter, was pretty good during the spring, and this summer it's been a mixed bag.

I think that the emotions in this topic were about the realization that there's not enough time left before the waterfront half (under 10 weeks now) to get to where I wanted to be speed-wise. My updated goals are:

1) Train injury-free.
2) Run the event non-stop.
3) Finish in 2:15.
4) Come into the event with enough callouses so I don't come out with a ton of blisters again.


Depending on how this goes, I'll decide if it makes sense to do another half or two in the late fall & winter to help stay focused on running. If I do, I'll think about making speed a goal then. For now, it looks like another one where it's enough of a challenge just to make it to the start healthy & ready to go, and to the end under my own power.

Thanks again!

[MichaelMc]

I agree with the above posts. First that the critical thing in running at this point in life is to focus on enjoyment and get your sense of accomplishment from your own improvement, not by comparison with others. Comparison is insidious, because you will always raise your sights as soon as you improve, and you'll ALWAYS have someone faster than you.

As far as the practical process of getting FASTER, again, as the other posts suggest first we need to figure out where you ARE and what your limiting factors are. People seem to jump into long races without first developing speed in 5k & 10k races. It is personal choice, but it has consequences. The very best distance runners progress from shorter races, developing their form, power and pure speed along with their endurance. It is easy for them to see where their strengths and weaknesses are because we can look at how their times match up across the board.

I strongly suggest developing a training habit, and a willingness to try out a variety of distances and races. If we knew your 1 mile speed, 5k speed and 10k speed then we'd be able to figure out where your strengths are and what you should work on to improve. A common issue with people who take up running later in life and in less than stellar fitness is to focus completely on endurance and never develop proper form or their full cardiovascular potential. You see a lot of "survivor shuffle" in such people, with low leg lift chugging for example. Survivor shuffle isn't an efficient stride at speed, it is only the most efficient stride when you don't have the strength to run any other way. If just making it through the distance is the goal then conservation of energy becomes a habit, but learning to push your limits is a key factor if you are keen to get faster.

I would suggest working a little fast running into your weekly schedule, THEN do the mileage buildup. Do some short races to develop your SPEED and your sense of where "red line" is. With a more balanced program you can become a better all-round runner, and it opens up a world of different races.

[Dstew]

I cannot add much more to the great advice above other than one other thing to consider is that there are other factors outside of your control. I am speaking specifically of genetics - the ability of your body to train and yur maximum speed.

My quick story is in my late 30s, around 220 pounds with my 5'11" frame and I decided I needed to lose at lot of extra pounds. The gym was great over the winter but the summer, I needed something else so started to "jog". In 2002 ran my first race, a 10 K in around 49 minutes with minimal training. About 13 months later, had that down to 41 minutes and so entered my first marathon. Ran that in the summer of 2004 and then ran 4 half marathons with 1:40, 1:39, 1:29 and 1:31. My mileage would be considered minimal and yet given my running weight is around 185 - 195, it seemed to work for me.

My cautionary note is when I had fun and really listened to my body and would increase or decrease my intensity, frequency and duration accordingly, I was injury free. When I started to follow schedules to get me to the next level, I had qualified for the Boston Marathon and come hell or high water would beat 3:15, I got hurt and I am now struggling with such chronic list of injuries that I believe the accumulated damage has meant that I have raced a 5 K trail race this year and missed the next two. So although you may want to get faster, it is important not to push it too hard or risk an injury and with running injuries, the studies show they almost always come back.

[Syscrush]

I started out with an Excel spreadsheet, HRM, stopwatch, etc, that was 2008. Then in 2009 I found it was stressing me out and I stopped using the HRM & stopwatch, stopped logging the runs, I just went out consisently and enjoyed myself. I developed an IT band problem, and saw a running coach to get some advice about beating the injury.

When I told her I don't know how fast I run because I stopped wearing the watch, I expected her to give me a hard time, but instead she said "that's great!". It did mean, though, that I didn't know what to expect for the half. And of course that IT band problem really messed with my training so I went in underprepared compared to where I wanted to be.

I did run the whole thing with no injuries other than blisters, though, and it was a real high point in my life. Over a period of ~5 years I had worked my way down from 245 lbs to 185 and had run a half-marathon - a real accomplishment. An unexpected side effect of the whole experiment was that I had started to love running, and decided I wanted to keep at it (the original plan was to do it and quit, moving on to some other pursuit).

With that came the idea that I should strive to improve. I wanted to do longer distances, but felt like I had to get leaner and faster first so that those longer distances could be done with less suffering. I also figured that getting faster would require improving form/technique, which should ultimately decrease injuries.

I was hoping to run the Sporting Life 10k at 179 lbs, but came in at 200 instead and ran it in 57:00 instead of my daydream of 49:59. Since then I've managed to get back down under 185, but for the last month I've barely run at all, and I'm easing back into it now - and feeling a bit overwhelmed. I guess I just wanted to share a bit.

Thanks again to all for the advice, info, encouragement, and commiseration.

[ROW]

If your incosistent your not getting better. Theres a lot of ways to get faster. But one of the big ways of getting faster is the trials of miles the miles of trials.

[QuickChick]

You've gotten some great feedback. I like Michael's suggestion of incorporating some fast running, and I also agree that it would be helpful to do a 5K or 10K this summer to see where you're at. If you're near a RR, try coming out for Wednesday runs, and try running with a group that you struggle a bit to stay with. You need to practice that feeling of being slightly uncomfortable, and learn repeatedly that you can keep going while feeling this way, and that eventually going faster will feel good. If you keep consistently running, and you put some faster running into your routine, and you push yourself, you WILL get faster. Good luck!

[Dstew]

I started out with an Excel spreadsheet, HRM, stopwatch, etc, that was 2008. Then in 2009 I found it was stressing me out and I stopped using the HRM & stopwatch, stopped logging the runs, I just went out consisently and enjoyed myself.

An unexpected side effect of the whole experiment was that I had started to love running, and decided I wanted to keep at it (the original plan was to do it and quit, moving on to some other pursuit).

As a recovering running addict, I do understand where you are but always keep in mind that this is a nice hobby after all. There is to be a sense of joy and pleasure involved so if one gets too fixated upon time goals and the disappointment that can come with that, it does risk becoming a chore.

The other thing is to train forward - that is small improvements over a longer period of time. I took off almost 45 minutes from marathon one to marathon two but that was over one year dedicated to running the best marathon I could and training on a consistent basis.

Although my racing shoes are likely hung up for the rest of this year, I still run because there is almost nothing better than listening to the sound of my breathing the foot striking the ground and I am not worrying about racing so that those runs are a chore, something I HAVE to do.

AND if you never do get faster, who cares. Do not race then. Plus, you run a 2:30 or a 1:30 half marathon, you have won the same prize money and got the same medal.

[Joe Dwarf]

I was running quite a bit last fall

Can you define "quite a bit"? Because a few years ago I was running 2 or 3 days a week and thought that was lots. Then this year I decided to try a half and the training program I'm on is 5 days/week and boy has that made a difference. Just having that commitment and consistency has really made an impact on my fitness.

[ROW]

I was running quite a bit last fall

Can you define "quite a bit"? Because a few years ago I was running 2 or 3 days a week and thought that was lots. Then this year I decided to try a half and the training program I'm on is 5 days/week and boy has that made a difference. Just having that commitment and consistency has really made an impact on my fitness.

I agree. To me quite a bit is about 80k a week. To you it could be less.

[QuickChick]

80K a week is an awful lot for someone just starting out! LOL.
Syscrush, you would probably do well to try and transition yourself to 5 days of running/week, or at least 4. To achieve the pb you're looking for you could probably be around 30-40K per week now, building to 50 or 60K per week by the fall, but obviously the more you can do the better. Maybe try for one long run day, one tempo run day where you push the pace for at least 20 minutes within a run of at least 40 minutes (10 min wu/cd), one day where you do either hills or speed, and two short easy days.

[MichaelMc]

80K a week is an awful lot for someone just starting out! LOL.
Syscrush, you would probably do well to try and transition yourself to 5 days of running/week, or at least 4. To achieve the pb you're looking for you could probably be around 30-40K per week now, building to 50 or 60K per week by the fall, but obviously the more you can do the better. Maybe try for one long run day, one tempo run day where you push the pace for at least 20 minutes within a run of at least 40 minutes (10 min wu/cd), one day where you do either hills or speed, and two short easy days.

So now we have him running 5 days a week, 60k and two speed sessions? Might be a little aggressive, no?

With the some of the weight yo-yo issues etc I would simply suggest finding a nice steady routine that fits into your life and you enjoy. Consistancy will trump "campaigns" over the long term, because major efforts are frequently followed by physical and emotional let-downs. Make running and fitness a lifestyle and a habit rather than a discipline. As far as the running goes, make sure it stays fun most of the time: toughing it out the odd day is normal but when it becomes a chore it will get dropped in time of stress.

[Dstew]

80K a week is an awful lot for someone just starting out! LOL.
Syscrush, you would probably do well to try and transition yourself to 5 days of running/week, or at least 4. To achieve the pb you're looking for you could probably be around 30-40K per week now, building to 50 or 60K per week by the fall, but obviously the more you can do the better. Maybe try for one long run day, one tempo run day where you push the pace for at least 20 minutes within a run of at least 40 minutes (10 min wu/cd), one day where you do either hills or speed, and two short easy days.

So now we have him running 5 days a week, 60k and two speed sessions? Might be a little aggressive, no?

With the some of the weight yo-yo issues etc I would simply suggest finding a nice steady routine that fits into your life and you enjoy. Consistancy will trump "campaigns" over the long term, because major efforts are frequently followed by physical and emotional let-downs. Make running and fitness a lifestyle and a habit rather than a discipline. As far as the running goes, make sure it stays fun most of the time: toughing it out the odd day is normal but when it becomes a chore it will get dropped in time of stress.

Agree 110%.

Funny how these sort of topics gets one to think back.

When I first started to "run", it was not to run but to maintain the work I did in the gym over the fall, winter and spring. As it turns out, my jogs were around 5 K in total and were easily fit in between when I got home from work and supper. I would do that three times a week and eventually, 5 K became 7 K, 7 K became 9 - 10 K. I would then throw in an extra run and did that for year before a coworker convinced me that I would not completely embarass myself in a 10 K race. Ran the race and it was such a thrill that I ran more and more but did not run my second race until a year later. So by the time the racing bug really bite, running was a healthy habit and something I would automatically do. The extra was for the race but I never lost the base. For me, somewhere down the line it became only about the racing and the running suffered. Ah to go back in time and recapture those stress releaving and 30 minutes of quiet time to unwind from work.

For me, I am thankful I did not find the running sites until after my running had been established and a great base developed because goodness only knows what damage I could have inflicted on myself by following helpful advice and why a half or full marathon was the only race really worthy to run.

[Syscrush]

Thanks again to all for the interest. I didn't provide a lot of details in part because I'm embarassed, but I guess this is for posterity and might be of use/interest for others (or for me to look back on for inspiration and/or laughs sometime in the future).

When I say I was running "quite a bit" last fall, I was doing a 7k run to and from work 5 days per week, so that's ~70k/wk. I was enjoying it, but the aches and pains started adding up, then I got sick, then I got lazy, then Christmas came, then work was stressing me out a whole lot and I coped by eating and drinking too much, and blah blah blah.

I was running 20-30k/wk before and after doing the SL10k in May, then I got sick again (just a cold but with a bad cough), then I was preparing for a 100k bike race, then I was recovering from that race (had some knee pain) and still getting over the cough (exertion brought on painful coughing fits), then I spent a week (incl 2 weekends) doing a ~750k bike trip, and now I'm easing back into the running.

I'll run ~10k this week, 15k next week and 20k the week after. Hopefully from there I can feel OK about adding some longer weekend runs back into the mix (I haven't run more than 10k all year).

In terms of incorporating speed work, what I've been doing is finishing all of my runs with a 1.5k uphill stretch that starts down in the bottom of Christie Pits park in Toronto. I go up the immediate incline (I would guess it's 35-40% grade) as fast as I can, then spend a bit of time in survival/recovery pace, and pick it up as much as I can from there as I continue uphill. That 1.5k climb after the super-steep section averages something like a 3% grade, but with uphill stretches that vary from 5-10%. During the steepest uphill part, and the last 500-600m, I work up to going as fast as I can, upping the pace a bit with every lamppost I pass.

Something I was doing before (and will probably begin again once I'm back in the groove) is using my GPS watch with a pace alarm that would go off whenever I drop below 5:30/km. I would stop and take a short walk break if my pace dropped enough to trigger the alarm, or if I could feel my form getting bad (I'm running in Vibrams - my definition of bad form is heelstriking, which happens sometimes if my calves are really burned out). I don't know if that's a worthwhile approach or if it's better to just keep plodding along and let the speed come later.

Thanks again,

[Irongirl]

without sounding like a biotch....well, I might just sound like one....here it goes.

AWESOME job on the weight loss. Now, you are a runner, you've ran a half marathon....enough with the excuses, and decide on a training plan.

By the sounds of your posts, you would REALLY benefit from some kind of running clinic - I'm a big believer in the Running Room clinics for people that are starting out and trying to really understand what "training" for a half marathon is all about.

The speed work that you've described doesn't really sound all that beneficial - hill training and speed work aren't the same thing.

Stopping to walk when you get slower than 5:30/km also doesn't sound all that beneficial.....considering your race pace was about a 6:30/km - I'm not sure where you get the 5:30/km threshold from.

I would be really happy to send you a copy of a half marathon training schedule. You would be at about a 12 km long run right now - which is too far probably for your current fitness level, but, it would give you an idea as to what a training schedule actually looks like - including training paces.

[Ironboy]

With the some of the weight yo-yo issues etc I would simply suggest finding a nice steady routine that fits into your life and you enjoy. Consistancy will trump "campaigns" over the long term, because major efforts are frequently followed by physical and emotional let-downs. Make running and fitness a lifestyle and a habit rather than a discipline. As far as the running goes, make sure it stays fun most of the time: toughing it out the odd day is normal but when it becomes a chore it will get dropped in time of stress.

Nice to hear.

In contrast to Irongirls "plans, plans, plans" approach, I've been trying to just fit more mileage in to my routine. I started an informal run club at work and we run Monday, Wednesday and Friday at lunch, I run on my own on Tuesday's (accelerations) and Thursdays(tempo) and try to do 1 hr on one weekend day and 1.5 to 2 hrs on the other weekend day. I figure if I can sustain that over the long haul, I will see improvement.

Now already, summer vacation has taken it's toll on that "schedule", but I'm not sweating it, I just resume it when life's routine gets going again (the run club really helps with that, even though most days I'm alone, I still go out just in case). If I miss a run or two, no biggie, but I make a point of never missing two runs in a row.

And again, that is my schedule, you need to find what works for you. Build it in to your life and run happy, the results will come.

[Irongirl]

Now already, summer vacation has taken it's toll on that "schedule", but I'm not sweating it, I just resume it when life's routine gets going again (the run club really helps with that, even though most days I'm alone, I still go out just in case). If I miss a run or two, no biggie, but I make a point of never missing two runs in a row.

I like this approach when there is no goal race in sight. However, Syscrush has clearly indicated that he has a goal race in the fall.....

[QuickChick]

80K a week is an awful lot for someone just starting out! LOL.
Syscrush, you would probably do well to try and transition yourself to 5 days of running/week, or at least 4. To achieve the pb you're looking for you could probably be around 30-40K per week now, building to 50 or 60K per week by the fall, but obviously the more you can do the better. Maybe try for one long run day, one tempo run day where you push the pace for at least 20 minutes within a run of at least 40 minutes (10 min wu/cd), one day where you do either hills or speed, and two short easy days.

So now we have him running 5 days a week, 60k and two speed sessions? Might be a little aggressive, no?

With the some of the weight yo-yo issues etc I would simply suggest finding a nice steady routine that fits into your life and you enjoy. Consistancy will trump "campaigns" over the long term, because major efforts are frequently followed by physical and emotional let-downs. Make running and fitness a lifestyle and a habit rather than a discipline. As far as the running goes, make sure it stays fun most of the time: toughing it out the odd day is normal but when it becomes a chore it will get dropped in time of stress.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think he should go right out and do 60K/week right now. I wasn't sure from his original post if "quite a bit" meant twice a week or 5 times a week. Judging from what he's said, though, I do think 30-40K per week now would be doable, as part of a habit like you say. 10-15km long runs, if he can do that (is that reasonable Syscrush?) with the other 4 runs being 3-8km in length. I totally agree that consistency and making it part of your lifestyle are key. If he can get to the point where it's a habit that is fun, and something that he looks forward to, it will stick. I think his best bet is to formulate a routine, as many days a week as is reasonable, and build the mileage slowly. I suggested 50-60K as what to aim for because it seemed like a good target for a beginning/intermediate distance runner to do a half, and it's an amount that doesn't involve a drastic lifestyle change. Even 40-50 would probably be fine. By the race time he could be up to a 18-20km long run and 4 other runs being 5-10km in length.

I don't think you necessarily need to do a clinic, Syscrush, but logging your runs may be a good way to track your mileage and notice any strange pacing issues. Also, if you think you can do about a 2:15 half, your tempo pace should be in the neighbourhood of 6:00/km. Easy math. If this doesn't feel comfortably hard, go faster or slower accordingly, but it should be a comfortably hard pace where you can just gasp out short sentences. You should be quite a bit slower on your long run and easy runs. You just want to make sure you're not increasing hugely each week (the 10% rule is a good one) and you want to make sure your long run is significantly less than the rest of your weekly mileage. You don't have to have a schedule to follow, and actually I find running is much more enjoyable when it's more fluid and relaxed- fun! Itsmyrun.com rocks for logging. The clinic, if you chose to do that, however, would be good for you to meet people who can push your pace on the runs.

[DougG]

Thanks again to all for the interest. I didn't provide a lot of details in part because I'm embarassed, but I guess this is for posterity and might be of use/interest for others (or for me to look back on for inspiration and/or laughs sometime in the future).

Don't feel embarrassed at all. There are many on this board who struggle to break 100km a month. Your weight loss is fantastic, congratulations!

[Jwolf]

Just to add- I agree with irongirl that the pace alarm at 5:30/km seems too fast for your build-up pace. My fastest race times are under 5:00 but my easy pace is closer to 6:00/km. Only now that I'm training for a marathon at around 5:30/km pace do I use that pace for some of my training runs- otherwise it's a somewhat inefficient pace for building endurance and aerobic base. When I first broke 2 hours in the half most of my runs were around 6:15-6:45/km with one faster run of about 5:30/km-- that was following a modified Running Room plan.

Her suggestion to look at a half-marathon training program is a good one because it will give you a idea of the mix of runs and pace that will help you achieve your goal. If last year you could handle 10 runs/week of 7k each you can certainly handle a decent half-marathon training plan- that 70k/week would be a great base to start from and with some more targeted training you can certainly meet you goal of a faster half.

[Syscrush]

Thanks again. The idea of training for speed and really cutting down my time has flown out the window for this event, I'm just trying to get enough miles in to have a base that will let me finish without injury. I think I will look for another event to do later in the fall and will follow a more rigorous training schedule that includes speed work.