McMillan says you can race a marathon on 4 weeks training?

[eljeffe]

In the current issue of Runner's World Magazine (the one with all the dogs on it), McMillan says in the "Cram for a Marathon" article that if your recent weekly mileage has included a couple weekly 8-10k runs and you have been doing 1 weekly 8-10 mile long run that you can ramp up towards a marathon in 4 weeks.

The 4 week plan is something along the lines of 2 easy runs per week, 1 10k fartlek, and a weekly long run of 12, 16, 18, and 12 miles respectively.

So my interpretation of this is to do an 8k, and a 10k easy, 1 tempo or fartlek or hill rep run of varying length, and a long slow easy run. On the 4th week, I'll run the 12 miler as a progression/interval run.

Predictions? I'm skeptical, but willing to give it a try. I do love being the case study.

It's a bit of a short week since it's already Wednesday and I haven't run since Sunday, but I'll start with the 12 miler tonight and 8k easy tomorrow.

Log:
Sept 15 - 21.1k easy @ 4:47/k
Sept 16 - 10k hilly trails easy @ 4:51/k
Sept 17 - 10k hilly tempo run @ 4:25/k
Sept 18 - off
Sept 19 - 6k walk
Sept 20 - 10.7k hilly trails easy @ 5:13/k
Sept 21 - off
Sept 22 - 16.1k tempo run @ 4:27/k
Sept 23 - 10k easy run @ 4:44/k

[Joe Dwarf]

Predictions? I'm skeptical, but willing to give it a try. I do love being the case study.

Is your volume really under 40 km/week right now? I find that hard to believe...

[ultraslacker]

I'm surprised that they would suggest that. Were they talking about first-timers or people with experience?

I definitely think that someone with your amount of experience/history could do it. Not sure I'd recommend it for a first-timer. :P

[ian]

So you're racing Victoria after all? I predict that you can probably get to the ballpark of what you ran last year, in which case you might want to start at the back of the pack with me and we'll see who bonks first

[eljeffe]

The article doesn't specify "marathoning experience" level.

Stats: I've run just under 2300km so far this year. I've run 2 marathons (3h12 and 2h55) and 55 half marathons so far this year. I've run 65k so far in September, 116km in the past 30 days, and last week I ran 36k. I've also cycled 3500k so far this year.

I'll make it interesting and try and run a 3h10 BQ while I'm at it.

[Jwolf]

The article doesn't specify "marathoning experience" level.

No, but the baseline level of running it gives is more than the average casual runner. It assumes some running experience, but without having done the longer distances recently or at all. Finishing a marathon on that type of crash training certainly is doable.

Does it actually say `race`a marathon? Or finish strong? I think we can all agree that this wont get you your best time, but with a strong base you can certainly finish strong if you pick the right pace to start.

[eljeffe]

Jenn, I don't think I have a good base at the moment at all, but I do meet the requirements lined out in the article. In fact if I was to try and run a 3h10 this Sunday, I'd have no chance. BUT the fun will be in trying to get into shape following this plan in the 1 month the article says it's possible to. I'm sort of cheating a bit since I've run the course so many times before and I can tweak my training a bit to meet the demands of the terrain.

Ian, if even with your self imposed handicap, I doubt I'll out-bonk you.

[Jwolf]

Jenn, I don't think I have a good base at the moment at all, but I do meet the requirements lined out in the article.

But the base you have from earlier in the year doesnt just disappear. Just ask Ian. If nothing else it will be there to support your efforts to get back into 3:10 shape (if youre right that youre not there now).


Should be fun to watch. Im looking forward to seeing you guys on the out-and-back.

[Jo-Jo]

I'm glad you're going to be a case study. I saw that article and went...huh

Hey...if it works for you...maybe I'll try it. ..My training has been less than disciplined this year

[Spirit Unleashed]

One time I ran a marathon with the longest run at 18 miles. I finished the marathon without injury, but, man, did my legs hurt after I finished the marathon. And I wasn't doing the speeds jeff would do.

[MichaelMc]

I think most moderately experienced runners can complete a marathon on ZERO weeks training, it is simply a question of pacing correctly. The finish time and how you'll feel the next few days will vary, but I can't think of a time in the past five years I could COMPLETE a marathon.

I wouldn't be at all surprized to see you go sub 3:10 on that.

[seuss]

I think most moderately experienced runners can complete a marathon on ZERO weeks training, it is simply a question of pacing correctly. The finish time and how you'll feel the next few days will vary, but I can't think of a time in the past five years I could COMPLETE a marathon.

I wouldn't be at all surprized to see you go sub 3:10 on that.

you mean couldn't right?

[Edward]

I would agree with the article. With a strong base from previous years and running experience, it is more of a gut check than anything else.

Last weekend I did the Erie Marathon after taking 7 weeks off during the summer due to a stress fracture, total running in the 4 weeks before the marathon, 118 k. That included two long runs, 30 and 40 k, only ran 2 times a week. The result, 3:27 was 6 minutes off of my spring marathon.

Go out slow, watch the heart rate, suck it up at the end.

Make no mistake about it though, sore legs would be an understatement after the race.

[richie-rich]

I think most moderately experienced runners can complete a marathon on ZERO weeks training, it is simply a question of pacing correctly. The finish time and how you'll feel the next few days will vary, but I can't think of a time in the past five years I could COMPLETE a marathon.

you beat me too it. i've never run a marathon. my longest run has been 30km during ATB. i run around 35km/week. easy, tempo,intervals and an LSD. enough for me to do well in 5/10/halfs. and i have no doubt i'd finish a marathon. i'm pretty sure i could do it it under 4 hrs too. but i don't think i could BQ (3:20) without the proper training

[mcshame]

My gut response was going to be that it would work for you because it would be essentially a 4 week taper. But looking at your mileage in September, I was shocked at the low mileage you have been doing. I'm so used to seeing you doing big numbers! Of course, you'll still be able to run a marathon, you could likely do one tomorrow.

[eljeffe]

Well training run #1 is in the books, half marathon #56 on the year. I really do have my work cut out for me I think, and it's not going to be as easy as people may think. I've essentially taken the past 3 months off from any serious running. Anyway...

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/49186240

[Jwolf]

Well training run #1 is in the books, half marathon #56 on the year. I really do have my work cut out for me I think, and it's not going to be as easy as people may think. I've essentially taken the past 3 months off from any serious running. Anyway...

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/49186240

What do we think is easy?

I don't necessarily think it will be easy to get 3:10 (which isn't even your fastest time this year) because I can't tell how much fitness you've lost-- just that the marathon is doable.

I want to read the article and see whether it says "race" a marathon as in your title or "complete" a marathon. Two totally different things.

[ultraslacker]

I want to read the article and see whether it says "race" a marathon as in your title or "complete" a marathon. Two totally different things.

not really. It's not as though Jeff's going to go in there and run a 4:30 marathon just because he hasn't had his optimal mileage. I'm sure he'll still run as hard as he can for the distance.

"race" vs "complete" is entirely arbitrary, and individually defined.

[eljeffe]

I don't necessarily think it will be easy to get 3:10 (which isn't even your fastest time this year) because I can't tell how much fitness you've lost-- just that the marathon is doable.

I want to read the article and see whether it says "race" a marathon as in your title or "complete" a marathon. Two totally different things.

Well, you should read it then? It does says race, the whole article is about how to ramp up from basic fitness to race ready at marathon, half marathon, 5k and 10k in 1 month. However it says "Don't expect a marathon PB". The way it's written, it does make sense, but I think to squeeze a BQ out of it I might have to modify it a bit.

I'm thinking 2 weekly long runs - the 12, 16, 18, 12 they recommend, but also a second 16, 18, 20, 10 miler every weekend for the next 3 weeks. Now I've got my mind set on a BQ.

[Irongirl]

Well training run #1 is in the books, half marathon #56 on the year. I really do have my work cut out for me I think, and it's not going to be as easy as people may think. I've essentially taken the past 3 months off from any serious running. Anyway...

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/49186240

I'm going to hijack the thread a bit....

I find it interesting that you call training runs of 13.1 miles a "half marathon" - when I read above that you've done 55 half marathons this year, to me that reads as you've RACED 55 half marathons. Clearly, that isn't the case, and, you didn't say it was, but, I do find it interesting.

When ian does a 42.2 km training rain (crazy guy!), I'm trying to remember if he calls it a marathon, or, a 42.2 km run.

Back to the thread, even if your mileage has been low this past month, 55 runs of over 20km in the last 8 months equals a pretty higher than average base, I would think.

[ian]

When ian does a 42.2 km training rain (crazy guy!), I'm trying to remember if he calls it a marathon, or, a 42.2 km run.

Nope, it's only a "marathon" for me if it's an organized race. Otherwise, it's just a silly training run. With any luck, I might be able to do one of these (silly training runs) on Saturday.

Ian, if even with your self imposed handicap, I doubt I'll out-bonk you.

My original plan for the 42K was 3:15, but I'd be willing to start at 3:0X if you want to make a critical mass of foolhardiness.

[eljeffe]

Well to me, marathon refers to the 42.2k distance and half marathon means 21.1k, regardless of whether or not it's a race. I didn't enter any half marathon races this year, but I did run 21.1k continuously I guess 56 times now. I had a good streak going until about mid May, then I haven't really run much since.

Ian, all I can say is that the next month is going to involve getting as much quality training in as possible. I'll zero in on more specific race plans during my taper in, uh, 18 days.

[Jwolf]

Well, you should read it then?

I want to, but I can't find it on-line and I haven't been able to get to a store or library yet.

But I guess you and Holly are right that race vs. not is a somewhat arbitrary distinction anyway. Of course we agree it's not designed to get you your best time. The fact that you could still BQ in this way also doesn't prove it's the best way in general to BQ.

I also agree that "running a marathon" or half-marathon means running an organized race. Otherwise I'd say "I ran 21.1k" or "I ran a half-marathon distance". Semantics? Yes, but I can see how saying "i ran 55 half-marathons" sounds like you entered 55 half-marathons.

[eljeffe]

Lots of people enter marathons, dress up like elvis and jog for 5 hours. So? I've broken my half marathon race PB 3 times on training runs. Anyway when "I" say half marathon, I'm referring to a distance, and not an industry.

[Jwolf]

To each his own.
To me it's like the difference between "I ran a 10K" vs. "I ran 10K". You wouldn't use the first to describe a training run. Or at least I wouldn't.

Then again I also wouldn't jog a marathon dressed in an Elvis suit.