Could an ANGRY IT Band be shoe related?

dpvandy01 · Postby **dpvandy01** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:38 pm

Ok, so I've been running distances up to 9 miles on a treadmill weekly for the past several months along with 3 to 6 mile quick runs (treadmill) daily with a rest day as well. Last week was my first outdoor run in my quest for a second full marathon this upcoming May. Only six miles and my left IT Band is rather upset with me. I've always had cello strings for IT Bands but never any trouble to speak of. I have also been running in the same shoe (Asics GT series... currently GT2150 with 1 month's wear) for the past 10 years without issue. Soooooo what gives? I'm stretching and icing and it's getting a bit less tender but I'm still aware of it after my Sunday 8 mile LSD (20 degrees and snowy, delightful I might add). No "clicking" but tender on palpation and tight. I was thinking of using my T.E.N.S unit as well but I'm mostly just curious as to your thoughts on my injury. Could it be shoes? Any other GT runners have any issues going from the 2140 to 2150? The sizing was different as the 10.5 that I have run in for the past 10 years seems to be too small and I now require an 11.0....... thoughts???

dpvandy01 · Postby **dpvandy01** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:42 pm

Ok then, that was a bit of a disappointment.

Spirit Unleashed · Postby **Spirit Unleashed** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:55 pm

Sometimes, we don't know....

Jo-Jo · Postby **Jo-Jo** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:58 pm

HiPerformanceSpirit wrote:Sometimes, we don't know....

Yes...it's shocking but true :shock:

I deal with tight IT bands but it's not shoe related.
BTW...just in case you're not aware...a foam roller can become your close friend to help roll out the IT band.

eme · Postby **eme** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:16 pm

Just saw this now.

If you haven't had a problem with the 2100 series from Ascis before, I am guessing it is not the shoe (haven't heard of any major changes with the 2150).

My guess is that if you have been running on just the treadmill and just recently switch to the road, your body will take time to adjust. The TM is nice and level, cushioning - the road is harder, possibly angled and not as level.

I echo the comment about the foam roller - a cheap investment for a very useful tool for IT bands (and calves, hamstrings, quads, you name it). Make sure you stretch and maybe mix up your road and treadmill runs until your body gets used to the road.

I find that usually, if it is a shoe or biomechanics issue it will show up on both the TM and on the road - not just one or the other.

If self care doesn't work, don't be afraid to see a massage therapist (one who treats runners is best)/physio - IT band problems that are ignored tend to turn nasty.

Good luck in your training!

mas_runner · Postby **mas_runner** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:28 pm

If the temp is 20F then the rubber on your shoes will freeze and thus not provide as much cushioning as indoors. That may be where your problem lies.

dpvandy01 · Postby **dpvandy01** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:29 pm

Now I'm feeling some love. I ran my road route again today and it is mostly off camber pitching to the left which likely does put undue stress on my lateral left knee. I'm scheduled with my massage therapist Wednesday for an hour deep tissue. I'll likely up my visits from once per month to possibly every two weeks (she gives a ridiculous deal for firefighters only $30 for 60 minutes).

Foam rollers available at good running stores? Or should I look online?

Any thoughts on IT straps or knee sleeves?

Thanks again.

seuss · Postby **seuss** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:04 pm

re foam rollers: should be available at any good athletics or running specialty store.

here's a good guide to its use: http://www.smiweb.org/roller.pdf

dpvandy01 · Postby **dpvandy01** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:58 pm

Are we talking pool noodle hard or something denser??

seuss · Postby **seuss** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:03 pm

dpvandy01 wrote:Are we talking pool noodle hard or something denser??

denser and bigger in diameter.

mcshame · Postby **mcshame** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:46 am

eme wrote:Just saw this now.

If you haven't had a problem with the 2100 series from Ascis before, I am guessing it is not the shoe (haven't heard of any major changes with the 2150).

My guess is that if you have been running on just the treadmill and just recently switch to the road, your body will take time to adjust. The TM is nice and level, cushioning - the road is harder, possibly angled and not as level.

I echo the comment about the foam roller - a cheap investment for a very useful tool for IT bands (and calves, hamstrings, quads, you name it). Make sure you stretch and maybe mix up your road and treadmill runs until your body gets used to the road.

I find that usually, if it is a shoe or biomechanics issue it will show up on both the TM and on the road - not just one or the other.

If self care doesn't work, don't be afraid to see a massage therapist (one who treats runners is best)/physio - IT band problems that are ignored tend to turn nasty.

Good luck in your training!

+1, do you run on the left side of the road? If so, the sudden switch to outdoors with the cold hardening the shoe could be all it takes to get the IT band going. Stretching and rolling will help and a good deep tissue and/or ART treatment.

Spirit Unleashed · Postby **Spirit Unleashed** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:03 am

I got my foam roller thru amazon.com because the only running store in kc is waaaayyyy across town. For a smaller size, I use a regular wooden rolling pin.

getfit · Postby **getfit** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:09 pm

I have suffered with IT band issues in the past too and I ended up getting orthotics which has helped. I also now use a foam roller regularly and find it very useful. I bought mine at Fitness Depot, but have also seen them available at the RR.

dpvandy01 · Postby **dpvandy01** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:43 am

Those roller seem barbaric!! I tried on at my PT's office a few months back.... Ooooouch! But, I'd cut the head off of a live chicken if I thought it would help keep me healthy through my next marathon! My wife us counting on me as a training partner and trust me, I don't want to let her down!!!!

There a so many sizes, any recommendations? 5' 10" and about 168 lbs...,,

scrumhalfgirl · Postby **scrumhalfgirl** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:53 am

I used an IT strap and it did help - but it is a crutch, not a solution. It helped to managed the pain so I could run, but doesn't address the root problem. A good temporary help in my opinion, but not something you can rely on for ever.

Good luck!

PinkLady · Postby **PinkLady** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:04 pm

dpvandy01 wrote:Those roller seem barbaric!! I tried on at my PT's office a few months back.... Ooooouch! But, I'd cut the head off of a live chicken if I thought it would help keep me healthy through my next marathon! My wife us counting on me as a training partner and trust me, I don't want to let her down!!!!

There a so many sizes, any recommendations? 5' 10" and about 168 lbs...,,

But it's a GOOD pain!! :twisted:

Funny story - whenever I go to my chiro for ART, he always stops as soon as I grunt/squeak/yelp and asks me if I want him to ease up....I'm always like "No, man! I'm PAYING you torture me - keep going!" :lol:

Tried those foam rollers once....didn't work for me, alas,

....found them too squishy and I also seem to have 'slippery' knots/adhesions, so the foam rollers only seems to move my knots around rather than working them out. When I get knotty and can't get into my chiro, I have used a roller pin when desperate.

To the OP - I agree with scrumhalfgirl, IT strapping/taping is a short term crutch....you're much better off finding a good sports oriented chiro or RMT who can address the cause of your issues, and identify any biomechanical form errors. I would also say that if you're still in the early stages of transitioning to the road from the treadmill, some of your aches might just be getting used to running outside....but if it's going on for more than a week or two with sufficient rest, than there's something else going on.

Engmomma · Postby **Engmomma** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:52 pm

As the others have said, a foam roller and an RMT with a meat hooks for hands works.

The foam roller can make me cry like a baby but it is theraputic. No really....it is. =))

Syscrush · Postby **Syscrush** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:28 am

When I started seeing a MT for ITB probs a year and a half ago, I could see her heart sink when I told her what I was there for.

"OK, I'll tell you right now, that's the most painful treatment we do. I'm really sorry."

She was apologizing before, during, and after every session. The foam roller and/or wooden rolling pin were suggested to me, but I was going for massage twice a week and it was always so sore and tender that I felt like hitting it with a roller at home would just mean that I'd go into the MT session so sore that I couldn't stand the full treatment. If you can, maybe take some Aspirin or smoke a joint before you go in.

Between the massage and the switch to barefoot, my ITB pain went away. I believe that going barefoot and the consequent rebuilding of a lower-impact gait was the main factor. However, a year later the underlying problems (hypermobile kneecaps coupled with some thigh muscle imbalance, lack of hip flexibility, and scoliosis) manifested as pretty rough PF pain which I'm dealing with now via stretching and strengthening exercises.

From my own experience, the folks who are pointing to the cold rubber, switch from TM to road, and road crown are probably all on the right track. However, even if you are able to tweak those variables so that the pain subsides (with the help of massage), you may find that there's still some issue that would be helped with a bit of PT-prescribed stretching and/or yoga.

fe.RMT · Postby **fe.RMT** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:33 am

a massage therapist that spends time massaging your actual ITB is doing you a disservice. As far as connective tissues go it's the toughest out there and doesn't respond / lengthen to manual manipulation any more than leather does. Its tension is however controlled by the forces exerted on in by the TFL in the anteriolateral hip and the glute max posteriorly. In my opinion the focus of the treatment should be to these two muscles (orthopedic testing can sometimes give a clue as to which might be more to blame). Trigger points can be found in connective tissue and so it is possible that focused work to the ITB structure itself may take this form, but any attempt to make it longer or looser by manipulating the band itself is an exercise in futility.

dpvandy01 · Postby **dpvandy01** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:09 pm

Update. Still in the same shoes (well until next week as they are scheduled for replacement), logged 285 miles since 1-1-11 70% of which are road miles (minus a few insane 14 to 17 mile TM runs), and more ITB trouble. Transition is the strongest suspect. Thanks to all for the input.

Syscrush · Postby **Syscrush** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:25 pm

fe.sweetpea wrote:a massage therapist that spends time massaging your actual ITB is doing you a disservice.

I asked about this and the story from the pro-massage crowd was that the intent is not to loosen or stretch the ITB itself, but rather to reduce adhesion within the soft tissues (which I believe are maybe a result of inflammation and/or scarring). A bit more info here.

I'm not picking sides on this one, but sharing what my own furtive search and discussion with my PT brought up.

fe.RMT · Postby **fe.RMT** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:22 am

Syscrush wrote:
fe.sweetpea wrote:a massage therapist that spends time massaging your actual ITB is doing you a disservice.

I asked about this and the story from the pro-massage crowd was that the intent is not to loosen or stretch the ITB itself, but rather to reduce adhesion within the soft tissues (which I believe are maybe a result of inflammation and/or scarring). A bit more info here.

I'm not picking sides on this one, but sharing what my own furtive search and discussion with my PT brought up.

The ITB won't become adhered to itself (the tissue just don't work that way) but it is conceivable that it might become adhered to the quadriceps (vastus lateralis). The ITB is anchored to the femur (i.e. it doesn't just lie over top of the vastus lateralis sliding and gliding). In this case I would expect the treatment to focus on the quadriceps and ITB junction, not the ITB itself.

Syscrush · Postby **Syscrush** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:56 am

fe.sweetpea wrote:The ITB won't become adhered to itself (the tissue just don't work that way) but it is conceivable that it might become adhered to the quadriceps (vastus lateralis). The ITB is anchored to the femur (i.e. it doesn't just lie over top of the vastus lateralis sliding and gliding). In this case I would expect the treatment to focus on the quadriceps and ITB junction, not the ITB itself.

All I know is that it hurt like absolute hell. :wink:

Engmomma · Postby **Engmomma** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:23 am

Syscrush wrote:
fe.sweetpea wrote:The ITB won't become adhered to itself (the tissue just don't work that way) but it is conceivable that it might become adhered to the quadriceps (vastus lateralis). The ITB is anchored to the femur (i.e. it doesn't just lie over top of the vastus lateralis sliding and gliding). In this case I would expect the treatment to focus on the quadriceps and ITB junction, not the ITB itself.

All I know is that it hurt like absolute hell.

Agreed...it hurts.

My chiro guy is treating my IT because it flared up again. He said the same thing as fe.sweetpea. He is doing some ART and has given me some exercises to strenghth the glutes.

bowler squats is one (essentially a one leg squat with back leg extended behind front leg - you look like a bowler after they throw the ball)

definitely feel it in my arse