How little training would you do?

[Mark.AU]

as Master Yoda once said ... "If you think you can, you're right, and if you think you can't, you're also right .... "

Yoda never said that! At least not that way!

Henry Ford. (looked a bit like Yoda)

[HCcD]

as Master Yoda once said ... "If you think you can, you're right, and if you think you can't, you're also right .... "

Yoda never said that! At least not that way!

Henry Ford. (looked a bit like Yoda)

Master Yoda / Master Ford ... same thing ...

[Ironboy]

Alexk,

Thanks for you insight. I'm sure you marathon will benefit from CF. Have you looked at CrossfitEndurance.com?

[Ironboy]

I'll answer the philosophical question; how little training would I do?

Exactly what I'm doing now. I enjoy it. All of it; if it didn't, I wouldn't do it.

I envy you!

I'm curious, James, what do you envy? Is it the enjoyment in training? I ask because I read in another response that you are about the accomplishment rather than the journey. You know, there are ways to make the journey the accomplishment and build accomplishment into the journey...

As for Crossfit, I don't know too much about it but from what I do know I bet it will help you in pursuit of the sub20 much more than longer distance goals. I expect you to make gains and get the sub20 before I do.

That you've found a balance that you enjoy and allows you to progress.

When the kids are older, I may find that again. For now, I want to try and do more with less.

We'll se where it takes me.

[ian]

I think all of us, at various times, are faced with changing schedules which force us to answer some version of this question. At present, I'm in the "I like training for its own sake" camp, but unless I swear off racing, that might just be a rationalization.

[MikeM]

I'm reading this thread with great interest since it's a question that I think about a lot. I enjoy training but time is limited these days.

For how little I would train, this summer I was especially time constrained and wasn't training toward a specific goal. I found that I ran when I could (2-3 lunchtimes per week in my case with a early morning weekend longer run) at no specific pace. I could be happy with that as my running schedule. Fortunately for me, I'm still new enough to running that that type of schedule of regular base runs still allows me to improve.

I'm now following a marathon program. It's been doable so far with lunchtimes and early mornings but we'll see how it goes as the workouts get longer. I'm prepared to abandon or readjust my time goal, if necessary.

I haven't specifically done CF (at least at a CF gym, I occasionally use the WOD from the website) but many of my strength workouts have elements of it (compound exercises, bodyweight exercise challenges). I don't do it for any specific running related reason but because I did those kind of exercises before I was even a runner and because I enjoy doing them. I think the intensity would lend itself well to your 5K goal.

[La]

I know you are all about the journey, something I can't seem to fathom. I am about accomplishment, I don't know why, I crave to be "good" at something, and running/triathlon is my only "thing", so I want to be "good" at it. It's not so much an arbitrary time goal as it is improvement over what I am now.

Training for the joy of training certainly takes the pressure off, being able to scale things back without worry of losing fitness, since gaining fitness isn't the ultimate goal. When I finished my Ironman, the first question I asked myself was: Could I do better? Then: How much better? and finally: What would I have to do to do better?

See, that's the thing... I don't think that becoming the kind of person who is more about the journey than the accomplishment is necessarily the right thing for everyone. It's the right thing for me. And I also wouldn't say that I am ONLY about the journey - I just like to have balance and perspective. I can't be all or nothing about either approach. I like a good accomplishment and goal attainment like you do - but it is not the ONLY driving factor. The goal itself is not enough, just as the journey itself is not enough, either.

[CinC]

My coach had me answer a few questions as we get started on another training cycle and I'm like La in that regard....

5. What would you most like to accomplish next season? Is it a good stretch and yet within your reach if you do things right?
keep enjoying the training and process. the moment I'm not having fun and taking pride in what I do, then this isn't' right for me. I'm not looking for a bunch of PB's this year - my goal is to replicate or come in better at IMC than I did in 09. But really - the time is not my focus. Ironman is such its own beast - you don't know what the day will bring. I really just want to train to the best of my abilities and know when I'm racing, that I'm working as hard as I can. With a smile on my face.

[jamix]

I'm going to answer the question "How little training is needed in order to maintain or regain fitness/speed in shorter distance races?"

Answer: Not much, HOWEVER......

If your new to running, you may need to build up some miles in order for the stress to be great enough to cause lasting adaptations. On the other hand, a veteran runner who has taken considerable time off, maybe able to get nearly all of his speed fitness back on as little training as 15-20 km / week. This is largely due to muscle memory I suspect.

The time-off from running cannot be too long though. I know from personal experience that if one takes 2-3 years off even, then not only will the fitness gains be lost, so will the inherent muscle memory that would otherwise allow you to regain that fitness quickly had you say only taken 4-6 months off.

[SteveF]

@Ironboy - I feel some of the reason training has become a chore is because of the time constraints. The free time we get between kid stuff, family stuff, work stuff etc., is at a premium right now. When I get locked into a training program, all my running becomes specific, purpose driven and about the plan. Sunday, I went to the RR with no plan for distance/time/speed etc. I ended running 26k just cuz' . It was one of the most enjoyable runs I've had in a long time. I ran fast, I ran slow, I chatted, I pondered life - this is a big part of running for me that I had forgotten. I do enjoy racing and improving but its not everything. Some day as the kids get older, I look forward to more "me" time when I can get out for hours and not feel the pressure of a clock.

[phorunner]

I'll answer the philosophical question; how little training would I do?

Exactly what I'm doing now. I enjoy it. All of it; if it didn't, I wouldn't do it.

This.

While it's always nice to get more from less (and then doing more with the free time to get even more), the real reason I run is because it's a great stress reliever, it cheers me up and it keeps me centred. Not sure how i ever lived without it.

[DLS]

Interesting question. For me, I'm pushing myself to run further and faster, in order to meet certain goals: I want to run a half marathon, and I'm not going to get there unless I do long runs. When I do a long run, I may not enjoy all of it, but when I'm finished, I'm proud of myself.

That said, if I didn't have a race to prep for, I'd probably just do 5k 5x per week, because part of the reason I run is for the stress relief. I don't get more stress relief from going longer (in fact, since I have to arrange childcare, it's probably more stress). But I really like the 30 min break in the day when I run, and I finish with that sense of having exerted myself.

[DLS]

I'll answer the philosophical question; how little training would I do?


While it's always nice to get more from less (and then doing more with the free time to get even more), the real reason I run is because it's a great stress reliever, it cheers me up and it keeps me centred. Not sure how i ever lived without it.

+1

[Dstew]

The question is: how much of your training is "fun"? or how little training would you do if you could still meet your goals?

At one point in time, all training was fun. My first 15K run, my first 20 K run, my first - 40 C run, etc, etc. But age and injuries, it became as little as possible.

This would mean actual running would be reduced to 2 or 3 times a week, usually less than 30 minutes per workout. Couple with regular/daily crossfit workouts of 15 to 30 minutes, some days lighter than other, and scanning the schedule, I see about 1 complete rest day every 2 weeks.

And even if it doesn't, I think it's still worth giving it a shot, just for the experience.

Speaking from experience, I needed up doing that. Was putting in some good miles over the winter as I was getting ready for a July Boston Marathon attempt. Could not wait to get out and run and then, complete mental burn out. Hated the mere thought. Had entered a half marathon in April and I started near the back of the pack. I had done very little in the preceding weeks and all of a sudden, fresh legs lead to a good mental attitude and ran a 89 minute and 35 second half. After that, two, three or four hard runs worked for me and I qualified for Boston doing that. I found I had more focus and energy doing what you were trying. Plus, it was one hell of a fun experiment to see how little for how much speed.

But that got me thinking. Just how much of my running do I really do for fun, vs in order to reach my goals?

So I guess the question boils down to: given you would still improve, or at very least not lose any fitness, just how little training would you do?

My personality and disposition are not suited to long or even slow runs. I still enjoy going over to an old 400 meter gravel track and doing 400 meter sprints. I feel like I am going to puke, walk 400 meters and repeat. To me, that is fun. Go for a nice relaxed 20 K run now, you might as well roast me over hot coals.

For me as well, I remembered that I ran as part of an overall fitness regime. Spinner bike, stepper, elliptical, kettle bells, weights, etc have also shown me that running alone has some very specific limitations. For those here, no big deal but ... for running economy one gets tight hip muscles, not very good for a golf swing. And right now, training sucks for me so I merely run and who cares what it does.

[narr]

This is going to be a philosophical post. Apologies in advance.

The question is: how much of your training is "fun"?
So I guess the question boils down to: given you would still improve, or at very least not lose any fitness, just how little training would you do?

Discuss.

I've been following this thread and I see once again, proof that I am "not a real runner".

How much of my training is fun? Umm, ... like zero.
How much running would I do if I didn't have to? Ah, ... that would be none. (Well, I get the urge to run about two times a year.)

I am completely goal oriented (and kind'a lazy). Running is the easiest thing that I can think of doing, to maintain my youthful (cough, cough) appearance. Seriously, I am almost 50 years old. I look around at other 50 year olds at work and it scares me because of what rough shape they are in.

Running doesn't relieve stress for me. Not a bit. If I am stressed before a run, I am just as stressed after the run. The best part of the run for me is the shower afterward. (Man, I love the shower after an LSD!)

When I don't run (like for months at a time), I don't use my time for anything that makes the world a better place, so I may as well run. I still get lot's of time to play on the computer, although I guess it does cut into my eating time a bit.

Don't get me wrong. I do understand some of the same things you all do. Like, I've just recently gotten back up to 50km/week and have been mixing in short fast speed days with longer tempo days and changed from Long Slow Distance (with walk breaks) runs, to Long Steady Distance (at a more challenging steady pace) runs. If I lie flat on the floor and support my weight on my heels and shoulder blades while dorsi-flexing my feet, it feels just like that first of the morning yawn and stretch. I can feel all those muscles that are regaining their strength. After my runs now, my muscles feel tired rather than tight like they did when I was starting out (again).

Less running for me almost always leads to no running. For me to keep running, it has to be an everyday, or almost everyday occurrence, and I have to have goals. Like sometime a year or two ago, I tossed around the idea of running another marathon in the year I turn 50. That became a goal. In order to run a marathon, I would have to start from scratch and change back into a recreational runner for a year or so (that was last year). Then I would have to ramp up the mileage to train for a 10K, so I picked a specific spring 10K race as a goal. It looks like that race isn't going to work out due to family priorities, but my training goals are still focused on that date. I need to be able to race a summer half marathon, so that is the goal my training will focus on (a specific dated race) and then I will train for a specific goal marathon.

I am goal oriented. If Boston had had such abstract race entry requirements when I was BQ'ing, I never would have bothered. I need to know that if I run this fast, I will get into this race. If I train this hard, I will be able to finish this distance. If I train smarter, harder, this way, I will beat my last time. If I ever get caught up in trying to qualify for a race again, I will likely try to "NY", forget BQ! You can even "NY" with a half marathon time. That's way better.

One of my current goals is to be less anal retentive about hitting every run on my schedule (which I am purposely tweaking as I go). If something comes up, I will deal with it and train forward from there. I gave up way too much stuff while I was obsessing about Boston. (Well, ... it was worth it, but I don't want to let my running get like that again.)

Clearly your philosophical question has caused some self reflection that has rambled off topic. The "more for less" that you speak of, wouldn't work for me because I am too lazy to do anything more difficult or complicated than running, ... and everything else is more complicated and more difficult. I come home; I change into shorts; I take a drink of orange juice; and I run while watching TV. Half the time I don't even know I'm running!

I hope more for less works for you.

Greg.

narr ="not a real runner"

[canalrunner]

This is going to be a philosophical post. Apologies in advance.

The question is: how much of your training is "fun"?
So I guess the question boils down to: given you would still improve, or at very least not lose any fitness, just how little training would you do?

Discuss.

I am goal oriented. If Boston had had such abstract race entry requirements when I was BQ'ing, I never would have bothered. I need to know that if I run this fast, I will get into this race. If I train this hard, I will be able to finish this distance. If I train smarter, harder, this way, I will beat my last time. If I ever get caught up in trying to qualify for a race again, I will likely try to "NY", forget BQ! You can even "NY" with a half marathon time. That's way better.

One of my current goals is to be less anal retentive about hitting every run on my schedule (which I am purposely tweaking as I go). If something comes up, I will deal with it and train forward from there. I gave up way too much stuff while I was obsessing about Boston. (Well, ... it was worth it, but I don't want to let my running get like that again.)

Ironboy: Since your goal is training for a 5k race rather than a marathon and your time goal is reachable, less may get you there. For my part, I actually don't follow a training plan rather training notions or vague training recipe. It is actually quite freeing. Clearly I have do more if I am running marathons. Also I have to think about quality if I am targeting an A race. If there was a plan, I think I would enjoy it less and obsess about it more. I have done okay with my race goals and have enjoyed my runs. I see it more as running than training. I think since you have been at it for so long, like I have, you basically know what needs to get done for various lengths of races. IMHO Your 5k focus makes sense for the time you have. Working out almost every day, even for 30 minutes is still a bit of a commitment.

[BingeRunner]

After running my first 3 halfs I started training for my first full. Due to my work schedule, I was only able to run on the weekends (with the occasional weekday run), so my marathon training consisted of:

- Long run on Saturday
- Repeat

Hence my name.

I do not recomend this method but it can be done. I've learned sooo much more since then...

Bingerunner

[Ironboy]

Well I've started down the road of crossfit endurance.

I've already made a few discoveries:
-I have serious flexibility issues, worse than I thought especially in the shoulders and hips.
-I have a weak back.
-I will benefit tremendously from CF in overall fitness, and mid-line stability and strength which will help my running in the long run.
-I love running far more than CF.

I think I'll have to add yoga to the mix to address my lack of flexibility.

The distinction I'm finding myself make is that most of the people in CF, that is their sport. For me running and triathlon are my sports and CF is just a training tool.

Other than the "9 foundational movements" and some plyometrics they do, I don't see my self getting "in to it" to deeply. Which makes it hard to do the posted WODs (workout of the day). I may have to design my own which focus on the basics.

I think I'll start a journal.

[La]

I did CF Boot Camp last summer (sort of CF "Lite") and I found it helped me with overall strength, which ultimately will help with running, especially explosive power/speed.

I agree that it will be a great cross-training workout - if you can get over the fact that everyone there takes it so seriously and kind of look down on runners.

[phorunner]

Well I've started down the road of crossfit endurance.

I've already made a few discoveries:
-I have serious flexibility issues, worse than I thought especially in the shoulders and hips.
-I have a weak back.
-I will benefit tremendously from CF in overall fitness, and mid-line stability and strength which will help my running in the long run.
-I love running far more than CF.

I think I'll have to add yoga to the mix to address my lack of flexibility.

The distinction I'm finding myself make is that most of the people in CF, that is their sport. For me running and triathlon are my sports and CF is just a training tool.

Other than the "9 foundational movements" and some plyometrics they do, I don't see my self getting "in to it" to deeply. Which makes it hard to do the posted WODs (workout of the day). I may have to design my own which focus on the basics.

I think I'll start a journal.

+1

Noticed this, plus the local CF gyms charge a hefty fee. (especially for such a barebones gym)

<Sidebar: When I started running, I thought shoes were expensive and that it was a pricey sport. But after trying a whole host of others on the side, it's one of the cheapest.>

And yeah, they're waaaayyy to into it, whereas I can't see it as more than a tool. I'm going to give it another shot though, as soon as it warms up (so I can train in the garage) and I get my adjustable kettlebell.

[Ironboy]

+1

Noticed this, plus the local CF gyms charge a hefty fee. (especially for such a barebones gym)

<Sidebar: When I started running, I thought shoes were expensive and that it was a pricey sport. But after trying a whole host of others on the side, it's one of the cheapest.>

And yeah, they're waaaayyy to into it, whereas I can't see it as more than a tool. I'm going to give it another shot though, as soon as it warms up (so I can train in the garage) and I get my adjustable kettlebell.

Thankfully I'm doing it at the Y, a couple of the trainers have level 1 certs and one is giving a class on the basic movements (which I'm taking).

I won't get the competitive aspect of racing the WOD, and I don't have a coach to correct my position, but I'll make it work.

I might take a kettlebell class to get that technique right, if you don't have it right it's a waste of time.

[constantgardener]

Ironboy...what is your current 5k time? It's like anything else in life, the more you put in, the more your output. I am sure Michael Phelps, Mutai ( Boston winner ), Hussein Bolt will all agree

[Jo-Jo]

Ironboy...what is your current 5k time? It's like anything else in life, the more you put in, the more your output. I am sure Michael Phelps, Mutai ( Boston winner ), Hussein Bolt will all agree

This is true.
But I imagine that the people you mentionned didn't work full time and have 4 children to look after while training.

I think that as recreational athletes our ability...and desire to focus on our training ebbs and flows. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's reality.

In my current situation...working full time, wanting to spend time with a dh who is only home on weekends, dealing with aging parents who need more of my time (and who I want to spend time with), plus a dog who is aging too and I want to hang out with for long walks far outweighs my need or desire to run a PB.

That's just me...everyone is different

[Ironboy]

Ironboy...what is your current 5k time? It's like anything else in life, the more you put in, the more your output. I am sure Michael Phelps, Mutai ( Boston winner ), Hussein Bolt will all agree

I'm not far off at 20:33, but like Jo-Jo said, my time is not my own right now.

And really, even in triathlon, my limiter has been my overall strength and power (and apparently flexibility). So I think CF will help in the short run and in the long run. But what remains to be seen is whether I'll stick with it long enough (and with the necessary intensity) to find out.

[Sir Crashalot]

I've been following this thread and I see once again, proof that I am "not a real runner".

How much of my training is fun? Umm, ... like zero.
How much running would I do if I didn't have to? Ah, ... that would be none. (Well, I get the urge to run about two times a year.)

I'm with you on this